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d_a_n1979

Mask or no mask - what's your choice & opinion

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24 minutes ago, dj1233 said:

 

 

 

Whilst a papermask does 'nothing' (unsure why Surgeons wear them?) it is more than likely better than nothing. I don't see it as a control measure, but a physical reminder about keeping your distance and doing what you can to try and keep others, as well as yourself safe. 

 

 

Surgeons wear them in case they cough sneeze or sweat on a patient. They do NOT wear them to protect them selves from the patient!

 

Working with the London air ambulance (trauma consultants) on a number of occasions they didn't even bother with masks even when cracking a chest open on the side of the road!

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1 hour ago, Stressed said:

The original post did ask peoples opinions!!

 

And if you offer your opinion, people can disagree with it. You can disagree with mine.

 

The infection rates didn’t go up when masks were introduced. They went up months later, due to the relaxing of other restrictions.

 

Masks have been proven to provide a small amount of protection to others.

 

The government do release the data. It’s on the ONS website and I remember it was part of the constant news reports during the worst spikes, when death rates were a focus. They even made a point of regularly explaining the difference between the two ways of calculating deaths due to covid.

 

if this were to happen again in the future, unfortunately I think the government would be better off only giving out the delayed, accurate statistics because the general public have shown that they’re not capable of understanding why the ‘fast’ stats exist. It’s just fuelled a load of conspiracy theories, which is a shame, because the fast data is useful.

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14 hours ago, Spandex said:

And if you offer your opinion, people can disagree with it. You can disagree with mine.

 

The infection rates didn’t go up when masks were introduced. They went up months later, due to the relaxing of other restrictions.

 

Masks have been proven to provide a small amount of protection to others.

 

The government do release the data. It’s on the ONS website and I remember it was part of the constant news reports during the worst spikes, when death rates were a focus. They even made a point of regularly explaining the difference between the two ways of calculating deaths due to covid.

 

if this were to happen again in the future, unfortunately I think the government would be better off only giving out the delayed, accurate statistics because the general public have shown that they’re not capable of understanding why the ‘fast’ stats exist. It’s just fuelled a load of conspiracy theories, which is a shame, because the fast data is useful.

Healthy debate and opinions are great, and that is why I respond. As long as we all respect each other's opinions which we seem to let the discussion continue.

 

In 2017 the government asked for the 3 emergency services and the NHS to do a joint project on pandemic planning. The report was submitted to the government at the end of 2017. One of my friends, a work mate in the emergency service who was a couple of ranks above me worked on this report.

It made a list of recommendations,

Stock pilling PPE

Spare capacity for ventilators.

Setting up/moth balling empty wards to create spare ITU capacity. 

Fund the NHS properly

These are just a few of the recommendations above. What did this government do about the report? PUT IT IN THE BIN. Because they believed it wouldn't happen and they didn't want to spend the money! Had they prepared lockdowns would have been shorter, hospitals would not have been over stretched and less people would have died.

This is Covid 19, basically there had been other Covids before and this one has been worse!

 

Yes the data is on the ONS website, BUT it is not shown clearly on the news and the majority of the public don't look or even know they can look

 

Take care out there people!

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You get no argument from me there. This government were told this could happen, told how bad it could be and told what to do to mitigate the effects... They ignored it, just like they ignore anything that costs money. They're so beholden to that vital group of Tory voters who hate the idea of funding anything that doesn't directly and instantly benefit them, that they can't bring themselves to pay for anything up front that might make this country a bit better in the future.

 

But, this doesn't mean the death stats are deliberately misleading. They are what they are and they serve a purpose.

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21 hours ago, Stressed said:

Surgeons wear them in case they cough sneeze or sweat on a patient. They do NOT wear them to protect them selves from the patient!

 

Working with the London air ambulance (trauma consultants) on a number of occasions they didn't even bother with masks even when cracking a chest open on the side of the road!

 

If they're good enough for a Surgeon to catch their sneeze/cough, why doesn't that work for the Public?

We know there are plenty of people who sneeze and cough without covering their mouth's, and they're probably the same people who don't wash their hands after using the Toilet either. If a mask has the smallest chance to prevent someone with Covid (knowingly, or not) spreading it then it's worth it, IMO.

 

Social distancing, masks & hand sanitising is not about preventing individuals catching Covid per se, it's to slow/reduce the spread of it society. Self isolation/shielding is about protecting you. 

 

 

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Part of my work is owning a retail shop which I run myself.

I'm only open 4 days a week for 6 hours a day.

It's quite a niche market, so I often will only see three or four people a day.

If I'm really busy i'll see ten people over a 6 hour period, so it's not exactly a supermarket.

I've worn masks throughout all of the restrictions when the rules have dictated so.

When I'd had both my vaccine injections, and rules allowed, I didn't wear my mask at my shop

unless somebody came in wearing one, in which case I put it on, as I assumed they had a reason to 

wear it, or just preferred to do so. I felt for myself, with me being fully vaccinated it should mean 

I wouldn't hopefully be seriously ill should I get covid, and throughout my life i've always been extremely 

healthy. I also struggle a bit with breathing with one on as it's quite thick with a separate internal filter.

What I simply cannot understand is why they've re-introduced compulsory mask wearing 

in retail and on public transport, yet it's not in theatres, shows, sports events, and most stupid

of all, PUBS! I mean, after a few drinks people are obviously at their most alert and conscientious.

It's just insane. With all the festivities approaching the current situation could get a lot worse

very quickly indeed! At least if we all need to make the effort, let's have some blanket consistency from

the government's rules. As it stands with the rules I'm supposedly far more at risk at work than if I go 

to a crowded pub full of drunks!

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^^^

 

My thoughts exactly @mike77

 

Makes absolutely no sense to me either; but could it be money related (as in the hospitality industry surely make their most £££ over the Christmas period etc). Although there have been reports that stuff is being cancelled already due to 'folk being unsure' about what's going to happen etc... :( 

 

For me, the most sensible thing would have been all or nothing re masks; not here & there etc...

 

Plus with supermarkets now coming out to say they won't enforce the wearing of masks... Throws another spanner in the works; but then again it shouldn't be their place to do that; that's way above their remit 

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4 hours ago, d_a_n1979 said:

^^^

 

My thoughts exactly @mike77

 

Makes absolutely no sense to me either; but could it be money related (as in the hospitality industry surely make their most £££ over the Christmas period etc). Although there have been reports that stuff is being cancelled already due to 'folk being unsure' about what's going to happen etc... :( 

 

For me, the most sensible thing would have been all or nothing re masks; not here & there etc...

 

Plus with supermarkets now coming out to say they won't enforce the wearing of masks... Throws another spanner in the works; but then again it shouldn't be their place to do that; that's way above their remit 

Agree.

I think Wales and Scotland and i think Northern Ireland have never ditched the mask requirement and seem to have similar case numbers to England.  Can't see how the new measures are going to make much difference to the stats. 

 

From the perspective of people keeping safe on an individual level then masks on crowded public transport seems to make sense.  People have the option of avoiding crowded hospitality venues but maybe transport and shops less so.

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From a purely logical view, if you require masks in shops and not pubs, you’re still reducing transmission compared to not requiring masks in either. So I suspect the government are basically trying to do the absolute bare minimum that they can get away with so they can take the edge off the new variant without impacting the economy much.

 

The problem with this approach is that it’s only sensible if it works. If it doesn’t make enough of a difference, you find yourself doing all the stricter measures you were trying to avoid in the first place, and you’ve lost a load of time that would have made the whole thing less severe. It’s a gamble. That’s been the governments tactic every time so far, and it’s often failed.

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I will say the governments mask policy really doesn't make sense.

 

I Mike77 shop with a couple of customers the government say wear a mask, bit I could go to Wembley with 80000 other people to watch football and the government say I don't need to wear a mask.

Figure that one out!!

The more this goes on the more of a farce it is becoming. All the government are actually interested in is keeping people working, shopping and going out and spending money so that their rich business mates keep earning their profits and funding the tory party! ( I know I can be cynical!!! )

 

Take care out there ladies and gents!

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2 hours ago, Stressed said:

All the government are actually interested in is keeping people working, shopping and going out and spending money so that their rich business mates keep earning their profits and funding the tory party! ( I know I can be cynical!!! )

I'm not sure that counts as cynical at this point. I don't think the government are even trying to pretend it's anything else - they've made it very clear they're willing to risk lives in order to keep businesses on side. The only thing they're doing is trying to spin it to make us all think that their rich business mates earning their profits is in all of our best interests.

 

But that sums up the Tory mantra in general, not just during this pandemic - "we'll help businesses make money, and that money will trickle down to all you poor people". The fact that it doesn't work, and never has, doesn't seem to stop people voting for them though.

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Don't you just love the way the Tories voted to end the £20 uplift in universal credit on the grounds people don't need the extra £20 but then have argued that MPs NEED to do their second jobs because their £80K+ salary as an MP is not enough to live on

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The whole mask thing is totally out of control...

 

Several issues come in to play...

 

1) The general UK public are just too stupid to use any common sense - the vast majority think they are something special (aka wannabee "celebrities") and as a result think they can do as they please and will scream and shout to get their way..

2) A large % of the above are selfish and don't consider or think of other people.... They are the "Me Me" population.

3) Devolved governments insist on doing their own thing to prove they have power so will ALWAYS do something contrary to Westminster

4) Central Government are rudderless and bounce from pillar to post depending on the day of the week...

5) There is nobody willing to actually enforce mask wearing...

6) Go back to No 1 and start again...

 

 

 

 

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On 30/11/2021 at 20:25, Stressed said:

Surgeons wear them in case they cough sneeze or sweat on a patient. They do NOT wear them to protect them selves from the patient!

Mask wearing in operating theatres is in the main to protect the scrub team from blood/fluid coming from the patient. Very few if any outside the scrub team wear masks at all (orthopaedic surgery being the exception - but most of that is cultural rather than evidence based.)
 

There has been loads of research into how effective masks are in controlling infection in surgical sites and most studies show that masks only have a very limited effect. Most surgical site infections are bacterial rather than viral though so you’re it really comparing like with like in respect to covid.
 

I personally think it’s no big deal to wear a mask in social situations and even if they only give very minimal protection they are still worthwhile. 
 

What I do find interesting is that as soon as people are wearing a mask they think it’s fine to chat in groups to others with no regard whatsoever to social distancing which is actually the thing that makes the most difference in terms of transmission. 

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1 hour ago, kobayashi said:


 

What I do find interesting is that as soon as people are wearing a mask they think it’s fine to chat in groups to others with no regard whatsoever to social distancing which is actually the thing that makes the most difference in terms of transmission. 

Unfortunately mask make people feel safe. Convincing my parents they are not get protection from other has been a nightmare.

 

It was the same in 1984 when seat belts became law. The car crash rate went up. This was because all those people driving unrestrained in cars with vinyl seats suddenly stopped sliding about when going round corners started driving faster and having more accidents because they felt safer

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Just a thought/observation

 

Why would the public take notice of this further farce on wear a mask if you're in a shop "covid might get you" you don't need a mask in a pub "covid won't get you because it's going to treat you as if you was at a No. 10 party"

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Hopefully the public are sensible enough to be able to separate their disgust at our governments hypocrisy last Christmas, from the notion of doing the right thing for the people they’re sharing a space with in shops/pubs/etc.

 

I’m sure there will be a number of people who are stupid enough to use it as an excuse to do whatever they want, but these sorts of people will do what they want regardless. If the Christmas party fiasco didn’t give them an excuse, they’d have thought of some other reason.

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Some will use it as an excuse yes; but others will also question, why masks in shops etc, but not pubs or restaurants etc...

 

Ok; you can't wear a mask whilst eating/drinking; but there was the 'rule' that when standing up and moving about, you needed to wear a mask. That no longer stands

 

So as said before; it should have been simple as all, or not at all. Not here n there... :roll: 

 

IMO the nations had enough now of all this; because of the poor handling overall and now the OTT reaction to Omicrom, and due to the bullshit from No.10, again, IMO, Boris is on the downward spiral to a vote of no confidence. Sunak & Truss are waiting in the wings to take over

Edited by d_a_n1979

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I agree that the rules should be more consistent, because consistency makes it easier to explain to people and gives them one less reason to not comply. But as I said before, wearing masks in shops but not in pubs is still safer than not wearing masks in either setting.

 

It’s like wearing a seatbelt. If someone decides they’re going to alternate between wearing their seatbelt and not wearing it every 10 miles, it’s obviously less safe than wearing it all the time, and it’s a bit bonkers, but it’s still safer than not wearing it at all.

 

This is all about risk. A mask doesn’t make people safe, it makes them safer. Wearing it more often decreases the risk, wearing it less often increases the risk. There isn’t an on/off switch for safety, there’s a huge spectrum.

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I do and will continue to wear one. Not really looked in to the scientific reasons behind it for or against but if it makes a small difference then I'm happy to do so. Likewise with minimising trips to the shop, sanitising and washing hands frequently. Petrol forecourts bother me as the pumps are handled many times without wiping. I wear disposable gloves but that's generating more plastic waste. This "pandemic" is now becoming the norm and I expect that as Boris and his party try to introduce more stringent measures, the number of people not respecting them will increase, we've had them for nearly a year and life must go on. Investment in the NHS is req'd not only labour resources but physical facilities to ensure it continues to support the nation. Hopefully we can all club together and see this through whilst enjoying a good christmas. 

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1 hour ago, sanjx said:

I do and will continue to wear one. Not really looked in to the scientific reasons behind it for or against but if it makes a small difference then I'm happy to do so. Likewise with minimising trips to the shop, sanitising and washing hands frequently. Petrol forecourts bother me as the pumps are handled many times without wiping. I wear disposable gloves but that's generating more plastic waste. This "pandemic" is now becoming the norm and I expect that as Boris and his party try to introduce more stringent measures, the number of people not respecting them will increase, we've had them for nearly a year and life must go on. Investment in the NHS is req'd not only labour resources but physical facilities to ensure it continues to support the nation. Hopefully we can all club together and see this through whilst enjoying a good christmas. 

 

Therein lies the issue; life isn't allowed to 'go on' due to the topsy turvy 'rules/regulations' and no one having a clear understanding of where they stand

 

Nothing to do with the vaccinations, those for them & those against them; it's not having a clear guideline at all, to any of it...

 

Masks are becoming a personal choice; they may try to mandate them, but folk will only wear them if they want to.

 

If Boris does drop more measures; I expect more of the country to go apeshit unfortunately... 

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