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Do these discs look new to you?

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15 minutes ago, Username_Taken said:

 it makes no sense why they look so bad so quickly when the BMW ones fitted a month ago look new. I know they're after market, but still, 7 days seems too quick.

 

 

That's the difference in cheap parts/non OEM v genuine parts.

 

Those discs are new, you've got exactly what you paid for and I'm really surprised Kwik Fit caved.

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38 minutes ago, 535i Andrew said:

 

That's the difference in cheap parts/non OEM v genuine parts.

 

Those discs are new, you've got exactly what you paid for and I'm really surprised Kwik Fit caved.

 

Well I'll be honest. I wasn't intending to cut corners to save money. I stupidly expected that since Kwik Fit was a well known name, and that as people often say they're expensive, then that would mean I'd get decent quality brake discs and pads. I paid £431 for them, which was about £200 (ish) cheaper than what I paid at BMW only a month prior for rear discs and pads. But I put that down to BMW charging an arm and a leg for labour. So I assumed I was getting good quality discs, almost the same, but aftermarket... like the ones already on my car, but after market, not supplied by BMW, but a good quality after market discs. As others have said Bremo do the after market ones too. That's the sort of quality I'd have expected.

 

But these are clearly cheap looking, and they're squeaking a bit already at low speed. If they had said, they'd look significantly worse than BMW discs I'd have said, ok fine, quote me for the BMW ones and probably went with them if they were at or around the same cost as BMW. After all I had just paid over £600 for the rear discs to be fitted at BMW a month ago. I'm the sort of person that will allow a company to charge me a bit more than they probably should, if it means I don't have any hassle in having to complain later for getting an inferior product.  If it means I get a quality product and the job done right first time, I'll pay the extra provided it's not astronomical. The hassle irritates me more than the extra cost.

 

The reason I didn't go back to BMW was because they don't have loan vehicles at short notice. I've got a kid with special needs, I take him to and from his special needs school about 5 miles away from my house, so I either need a loan car, or the job done at a local garage with the promise of having the car back in enough time to go get him at school.

 

The brake wear indicator had been stuck at 3,200 miles for a while and didn't tell me the brakes were worn. I started to notice them squeaking slightly all of a sudden a couple of days prior to having them done. Then the wife said, I'm going up to Scotland, so I though I'd better get them done. The Kwik Fit is just along the road, walking distance, so I though I'll get it done there if they can get the brakes done for me and the car ready to drive away by 14:30, since I need to pick my kid up.

 

They said they could do it, so I went with them. And they did get it done on time... but anyway... I digress, I'd have paid the extra money for the official BMW discs, and this is why I'm also happy to pay the extra to swap them over. 

Edited by Username_Taken

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1 hour ago, Username_Taken said:

... they were 24mm thick, he said that means they're new.

He's spot on - 24mm is the new thickness for your car.

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Just now, 535i Andrew said:

Sadly Kwik Fit is only good for a Sunday afternoon puncture repair when your trusted tyre fitter is shut and you are desperate. 

 

 

 

Or for people who just aren't car people. My experience is that they're:

  • Everywhere. You're never far from a Kwik Fit
  • Expensive for tyres, despite offers that might lead you to believe otherwise
  • Incapable of alignment
  • Good for cheap MOTs as long as your car definitely doesn't need anything doing to it
  • OK for air con regasses

 

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3 hours ago, 535i Andrew said:

 

That is most definitely a brand new non genuine aftermarket uncoated disc, the machining of the friction surface is still clearly visible.

 

That is very light and new corrosion on the edges that have no contact with the pads and is nothing that won't appear after being exposed to the atmosphere.

 

That disc will have had a spray of oil over it when fresh out the box which is why you need to de-grease them.  Replacement BMW discs come painted (coated) to stop the rust rings appearing like in your front disc picture and the paint then wears off in the first few miles where it is in contact with the pads and it leaves no exposed steel (iron) to rust in the atmosphere.  The machining on the BMW discs will be much finer than your KF ones so its not as visible, its like sanding a bit of wood with 80 grit sandpaper, you see the fine scratches caused by the course sand paper, but if you sand it with 240 grit  sandpaper you won't see scratches.  Costs more to produce which is why the BMW discs are more expensive.

 

My newly fitted painted BMW front disc

 

IMG-26-4240.jpg

 

Here is the same disc months later and you can see the rings of grey paint where yours are rusty.

 

DSCN4106.jpg

 

It's not unheard of for replacement brakes to squeak slightly for the first few hundred miles or so while everything beds in.

 

 

Nothing to worry about.

 

Also, Andrew, no offence intended, I've seen your posts on here, you're always extremely thorough in your explanations, you clearly know what you're talking about. And yes, I know that even the official brake discs can have those rust spots if exposed to moisture. But that's more than likely the reason your disc above is like that, as indicated by the water dripping from the car. Whenever I wash my car, I got the same rust appearing temporarily on the official discs, I'd drive for a bit and it would disappear. 

 

Here's another video taken today. Now maybe this is just cosmetic, but the way they look it doesn't inspire me with confidence. They're brakes, I don't want to take any chances with inferior quality discs. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AWxebPpOuLLN2T5EQ3COwhJgeIbU87MF/view?usp=sharing 

 

The ones I wasn't happy with, don't have temporary rust on them, like I've seen when I wash my car... they have what looks like corrosion down to the cast iron on the lip after approximately 500 miles. To happen so quickly, and for the same not to happen to the older BMW discs, it seems common sense to me that they are not as good as the BMW discs. If they were, everyone would be saving money buying them.

 

But I also take on board what you said about the paint added to the BMW discs, the Kwik Fit manager actually told me that too. Personally, I've driven 37,000 miles since I bought this car, bought with 18k miles on the clock, 1 previous lady owner BMW approved, full service history... so I've seen the conditions of the brake discs over the course of the 37k, and the BMW ones were in much better "looking" condition than these aftermarket ones (at least cosmetically) for most of the 37k miles. I don't believe they're anywhere near as good as the BMW discs due to that. Having paid £431 to fit, another couple of hundred wouldn't have bothered me in the slightest if they had explained the quality difference so I could arrive at an informed decision. Then there would have been no hassle, no need to have a moan etc.

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2 minutes ago, Username_Taken said:

And yes, I know that even the official brake discs can have those rust spots if exposed to moisture. But that's more than likely the reason your disc above is like that, as indicated by the water dripping from the car. Whenever I wash my car, I got the same rust appearing temporarily on the official discs, I'd drive for a bit and it would disappear. 

 

Sorry I'm not sure what you mean by that.  My disc has rust spots on it from me having splashed water on it from the job I was doing, that would've disappear by the time I've left my street. For the avoidance of doubt I'm not talking about rust spots on the friction surface of the disc, but the rust on the areas of the disc that are not 'polished' by the pads which I understand are the parts of your disc that you were concerned about.  In my picture you can see these are not rusty and still have their painted/coated surface.

 

26 minutes ago, Username_Taken said:

Here's another video taken today. Now maybe this is just cosmetic, but the way they look it doesn't inspire me with confidence. They're brakes, I don't want to take any chances with inferior quality discs. 

 

You are spot on, if you're not happy about your brakes, get them sorted so you are happy.  Holding that thought, that will be why Kwik Fit are helping you out.  You don't want to take chances with brakes!

 

In that 2nd video, they also appear to have regular marks on them, could just be they need a bit of bedding in but, if you're not happy with them, you are definitely doing the right thing in asking for them to be sorted.

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Hats off to Kwik Fit by the sounds of it then!!!!  I used to slag off bmw dealers by saying they were no better than kwik fit. Times have moved on. KF have upped their game considerably. :lol:

 

 

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3 hours ago, Username_Taken said:

Ok guys, I appreciate all your help, I've read each reply, a lot of good information. Thanks for taking the time to reply. I've been to my local Kwik Fit Branch, I said I don't know if I'm right, but showed them the difference between the Kwik fit fitted brake discs and the BMW fitted brake discs, the BMW ones being about a month old, the Kwik fit ones being about 7 days. At first the guy said they were new discs, which I obviously said they don't look new to me, and I mentioned I had been on a forum getting opinions etc... I said well maybe they are but you would say that wouldn't you etc, it makes no sense why they look so bad so quickly when the BMW ones fitted a month ago look new. I know they're after market, but still, 7 days seems too quick.

 

I told him, I'll go to the BMW Service Centre and if I'm wrong, I'll phone you back and say I'm wrong. If I'm right, and if you've not changed them, then if need be I'll get the money back through the small claims court. I had a bit of a moan, he said do you want the number for our Area Operations Manager. I said yes...

 

I was driving home and stopped to phone him, he beat me to it. He called me. He said I'm in another branch, but it's not far from you, he said I agree with you, if we've not done what we said we had, and have charged you for it, then that would be unacceptable etc. He was pleasant on the phone, and not defensive/evasive. He said if you come I'll take the wheel off in front of you and measure it with the gauge to show you. Which he did, and they were 24mm thick, he said that means they're new.

 

Now I have no idea if that's the right thickness or not. But in any case, we met in the middle. I said, regardless of whether they're new or not, the quality is clearly inferior to those BMW discs, they're coming off my car anyway. I said I would accept paying the difference between what I paid for the discs they put on and the cost of official BMW Discs.

 

He then went off and made a phone call, and came back and said we can do that, but we'll also swap the pads to BMW pads for you and won't charge you Labour, so only the difference between the old discs and pads and the BMW discs and pads. He said he would take the hit on the existing discs and pads if I paid the difference. That saves any hassle. I said I trust you now, so if you or one of your guys will fit them whilst you're there, then I'm happy with that. So, the manager said he will fit them for me. Which I thought was really good of him. I expected to have to go into battle, but he was fair.

 

 

 

Nice result! It is also your attitude when speaking to the folk at KwikFit that would have worked in your favour. Go in all guns blazing and people just get pissed off, obviously not the case here. The difference in cost now will be irrelevant once you have 2 part BMW discs fitted and your peace of mind is restored. 

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My last few experiences were OK with Kwik Fit.

 

4 tyres - worked out the cheapest I could find anywhere after the promotion and fitted at home

4 wheel alignment - sorted in a garage.  Closest garage with a hunter machine, even non-Kwik Fit and a decent price. 

Air Con regas - ice cold air con sorted. 

 

From my experience, it's very difficult for any one of their mechanics to screw things over, it's all mainly the machines. 

 

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58 minutes ago, bmwmike said:

Hats off to Kwik Fit by the sounds of it then!!!!  I used to slag off bmw dealers by saying they were no better than kwik fit. Times have moved on. KF have upped their game considerably. :lol:

 

 

 

I feel like they got caught and are coughing up but It's horrible that they will  continue fitting garbage parts because the unsuspecting public assume that they  are using something remotely close to OE  quality. 

 

£431 for front discs and pads leaves plenty of room for OEM quality and good profit margins.

I paid £220 for EBC Discs + yellow stuff pads, the discs are 2-3 months old and look brand new.

Surely in this instance KF could buy OEM quality at wholesale for sub £200 and still make a health £250 profit margin

 

My discs are 2-3 months old and they still look new.

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3 minutes ago, bmwPower said:

 

I feel like they got caught and are coughing up but It's horrible that they will  continue fitting garbage parts because the unsuspecting public assume that they  are using something remotely close to OE  quality. 

 

£431 for front discs and pads leaves plenty of room for OEM quality and good profit margins.

 

 

Sadly I think you a right.

 

For comparison, my genuine 348x36 front discs and pads were £350 from my local dealer after a small loyalty discount, fitted myself.  An indy using a ramp could do an axle set in an hour or two max easily and charge you no more than £100 to fit.

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28 minutes ago, Sandip said:

From my experience, it's very difficult for any one of their mechanics to screw things over, it's all mainly the machines. 

 

Been using them for tyres for 8 years and the online prices have been un-beatable for Michelin tyres  in that period.  I've decided to stop using them now as covid has highlighted that some of the smaller indies are really struggling. 

 

Just need to keep an eye on them. My KF uses a High Torque Milwaukee Fuel electric impact  on wheel nuts giving it a good few chugga chuggs followed by a  torque wrench for show :blink:.  I don't think they realise what a beast that impact is.

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2 minutes ago, bmwPower said:

My KF uses a High Torque Milwaukee Fuel electric impact  on wheel nuts giving it a good few chugga chuggs followed by a  torque wrench for show :blink:.


I don’t think that some tyre fitters (not just KF ones) realise that if the torque wrench clicks on first application it doesn’t mean that the  bolt is already at the correct torque!

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Whilst on not a fan of Kwik Fit I did get a full four wheel alignment done perfectly in mid 2018 at a local one to me, I was shown before and after alignment and due to the potholes it had gone out of alignment, since that date tyre wear has been very minimal with no signs non-alignment now, it depends on the competence of the person who is doing the alignment, checking the cost on the invoice I paid in 2018 was £59.95 which I thought was good.

And as far as disc quality and pads go you won't go wrong with obviously genuine BMW, but just as good are Brembo , Textar, or Ate for disc & pads, in fact Brembo front discs & pads on my wifes Mini Cooper has done over double the mileage than the original Mini disc and pads, on my F11 a year ago I did fit on the rear Textar pads and third party brake sensor, both parts have worked perfectly and brake dust is about the same as original BMW pads, I was surprised the rear pads wanted changing at 27,000 miles, but apparently as I had been using cruise control a lot which uses the rear brakes on over speed, I now temporary disengage cruise control on downhill sections to avoid this occurring.

Totally agree Kwik Fit came across and obviously dealt with your complaint issue, so excellent result.

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1 hour ago, Oilburner said:

but apparently as I had been using cruise control a lot which uses the rear brakes on over speed, I now temporary disengage cruise control on downhill sections to avoid this occurring.

 

 I actually use cruise control constantly... now I know why the rear brakes were being used more, and needed replaced first. "Every day is a school day." 

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4 minutes ago, Username_Taken said:

 

 I actually use cruise control constantly... 

 

Lol lucky you getting to drive somewhere to actually be able to use the cruise.. Not much call for cruise on my once a week trip to Tesco. 

 

 

Its caught a lot if F10/1 owners out needing new rear pads at as little as 30k due to cruise using the rears to brake. Mine were swapped at 34k and my dads were 32k I think. E60, I got nearly 80k from the rear pads. 

 

If you do a quick enough slow down using the cruise, you can feel the back end squat as it brakes only the rear as opposed to the nose dipping under firm foot pedal braking. 

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Something else that uses rear pads is the stability control stuff when the basic tyre pressure monitoring is fitted AND there is a slight mismatch in pressure and the system has not been reset. It also affects ride quality and i suspect was fixed for LCI thru software.

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2 minutes ago, 535i Andrew said:

If you do a quick enough slow down using the cruise, you can feel the back end squat as it brakes only the rear as opposed to the nose dipping under firm foot pedal braking. 

 

Now you say that, I've felt exactly that on occasion, hadn't given it much thought. I'll do what Oilburner suggested, and disengage it on hills so there's less need for the braking to happen, then just press resume... I like cruise control too much to stop using it. This is actually our 3rd F10, we had a couple of company cars through the wife's work before. Always used the cruise control... used to drive to Scotland and back fairly regularly from the South Coast, about 900 mile round trip. I think the 5 Series is the best car for motorway cruising long distances. Had an E Class in the past too, it wasn't as good. 7 speed Auto, not 8.

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2 hours ago, 535i Andrew said:

I use the LIM or LIcense Manager button.
 

I use Limit as well and find that leaving my heavy clog on the go-faster pedal has much the same effect as Cruise Control but without the braking. It’s just a bit wearing on downhills with the constant bonging reminder ;).

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That's not a bad result.  The other difference between the one piece and two piece, is weight.  I did research into the discs and nearly bought MTEC.  But in the end I went for BREMBO as I have had them on other vehicles.   Mine has big brakes and they are not cheap.  But it is often false economy fitting cheaper alternatives. 

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