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Well it time after over 9 years of owning a 1988 e34 530i which i believe was built in april 88 (when did production actually start) to start doing more than just maintaining it. The shell is rust free. There are rust bubbles on the boot lid but almost nothing else where. So far the suspension, fuel lines, brake lines have been completely renewed, broken ac removed and heater box replaced.

 

The exhaust is blowing so i have bought a fritz manifold and system which is being fitted next week. 

 

I would not mind making the car a bit quicker to accelerate. Given the car need a full respray perhaps light bootlid and boot would be in order and perhaps wings.

 

I have found these.http://www.pesch.cz/cs/produkt/viko-zavazadloveho-prostoru-bmw-e34#form_x

 

What work is required to fit them. Do they fit properly.

 

Given i am happy with how the car handles the engine would be next. Given fritz is not taking new work at the moment and is it richard said he is closing the workshop doors in august is there anyone who can do tuning work on an old m30. Its in good health and i am not changing the engine. Quite happy with the m30b30. I am not after anything outrageous. I would be happy with 220 to 230hp from it so long low end torque is not killed. Thoughts welcome.

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Given the lighter panels have to be clipped in place and don't open on hinges i have ditched that.

 

So looking for somewhere who knows what they are doing with engines and engine management.

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8 hours ago, bm0p700f said:

Well it time after over 9 years of owning a 1988 e34 530i which i believe was built in april 88 (when did production actually start) to start doing more than just maintaining it. The shell is rust free. There are rust bubbles on the boot lid but almost nothing else where. So far the suspension, fuel lines, brake lines have been completely renewed, broken ac removed and heater box replaced.

 

The exhaust is blowing so i have bought a fritz manifold and system which is being fitted next week. 

 

I would not mind making the car a bit quicker to accelerate. Given the car need a full respray perhaps light bootlid and boot would be in order and perhaps wings.

 

I have found these.http://www.pesch.cz/cs/produkt/viko-zavazadloveho-prostoru-bmw-e34#form_x

 

What work is required to fit them. Do they fit properly.

 

Given i am happy with how the car handles the engine would be next. Given fritz is not taking new work at the moment and is it richard said he is closing the workshop doors in august is there anyone who can do tuning work on an old m30. Its in good health and i am not changing the engine. Quite happy with the m30b30. I am not after anything outrageous. I would be happy with 220 to 230hp from it so long low end torque is not killed. Thoughts welcome.

 

With your straight six 530i you started with 185bhp and to be honest you will not get anywhere near 220/230bhp without either;

 

a. Forced induction - super or turbo charging, or

b. Losing all engine driveability and flexibility - basically a very high revving race engine, or

c. Getting a bigger engine which you've stated you won't do.

 

Whilst the quality of their products is excellent (I have a system fitted to a 635CSi) I would also caution against believeing the power gain claims by Fritz - the system may give 2 or 3bhp more but  the manifold just makes a nice noise and actually increases under bonnet temperatures so perversely may be acting to reduce power output gicen the induction system on most M30 engines.

 

Unfortunately the most cost effective and easiest way to get more power out out of an M30 530i is to fit the E34 535i engine with 208bhp, or an earlier E24/E28 3.5 litre with 218/220bhp.

 

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I am not bought the fritz exhaust system for a power gain. There system only works with there manifold and they are the only people supplying a tubular manifold for a RHD car.  However i have one of there systems on a e28 and power went up on the eta to i engine i had by 10 hp. That was an example of tuning that got me an extra 40hp. 

 

Whether i get that this time is another matter.

 

In any case what i asked is there any company out there who works with tuning old engines. 

 

Forced induction (supercharger) had crossed my mind hence asking is the an outfit that knows what they are doing because i don't. although i can work out what supercharger would work with the engine as with rolling road data i can estimate volumetric efficency and using the laws of thermodynamics i can then workout how the volumetric efficency changes with boost pressure   and therfore relate that to pressure maps for various superchargers. However that still leave who will make it all work because i can't. 

 

I did that for the eta once did work on. I created an engine model in excel with accurately predicted how the car accelerated. I was intending to fit a turbo to it and had bought one before the car died. 

 

The fritz system by itself will not do much for power but with other changes it could. There used to be A tech in kent but Ant seems to have disappeared. 

 

Also since i have a good car with a perfectly fine engine i don't want to change it as that means log book changes, expensive insurance..... if i did an engine swap i would not put a m30b34 in it, i would put something more powerful in there. 

Edited by bm0p700f

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I completely understand - the issue will be getting more power out of the M30 3.0 lump.

 

Small gains might be made by an exhaust, a better induction, and maybe you might find someone who would do a custom map for you but altogether they wouldn't add up to about 15/20bhp so well short of your 220/230bhp target. 

 

Good luck.

 

 

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Malcolm, Welcome back!

 

You will remember my M535i? To that i fitted a ported head, schrick cam, evolve remap ecu, K&N and full fritz system and manifold. None of that was cheap. It yielded 233bhp. Assuming i had the 218bhp the book said then a lot of money was spent for 15bhp. lets say i had lost 10bhp, still lots of money for 25bhp! Probably £2k allin 10 years ago and the cam and exhaust where used and the labour was my own so free.

 

Next step would have been afm delete and a standalone mapping but that never happened.

 

I know the e to i gives a good gain but there is no magic bullet like that for an M30.

 

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, i enjoyed the journey but results were disappointing if i am honest.

 

Fit the exhaust - they sound great but don't chase ponies on an M30 N/A engine its really not worth it!

 

I don't recall if yours is manual or auto but maybe a shorter diff would be a worthwhile swap to perk things up?

 

Really want more go? Find a 3.5 lump its the easiest way if not leave it be.

 

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Well its a manual. The diff is a 3.64:1 i think, so its already doing 2400rpm at 70 mph. A shorter diff would be too noisey on the motorway.  I did have the ac removed not just because there was a hole in the condenser and the climate control "sword" kept failing but also to free up a pulley for a roots blower. 

 

Time to book a visit to dyno to get the info i need to create the mathematical engine model and pick a blower. Also i don't want destroy the engine. That should be a problem though. My inital thoughts are an eaton m62 which is probably a bit on the small side but it is compact and might mount where the AC compressor went. 

 

Still any recommendations on who can fit this sort of thing and sort out the engine management would be welcome. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by bm0p700f

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If it was me, and seeing as you ditched the AC compressor and have therefore freed up space in the right area, I'd turbocharge it. A small -ish turbo operating in it's most efficient range will give you the power you want and a fat torque curve, it won't stress the engine too much, and the engine management changes would be the same as for superchaging, with the possible exception of adding boost control electronically, if you don't do it mechanically. With the condensor gone, you have some intercooler room, and plumbing it in would be largely the same as for the supercharger, if not easier, as all the inlet/outlets are round, rather than the odd shapes found on a supercharger body.

 

You'd need a manifold, which you're already talking about , and a downpipe to go from turbo to your existing system (seeing as massive power isn't the goal a new larger system is probably not required) 

 

The bonus of the turbo is that when driving normally it's not sapping power, or whining, like a supercharger, and if tuned correctly it'll be making power to the redline, where a supercharger is usually tailing off. Keeping the boost low and cool and with correct fueling and ign, the stock internals should cope fine at the power levels you're taking about.

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I have bought a fritz  tubular manifold for there exhaust and the two need to be used together. There exhaust cant be mounted onto the stock down pipes or manifold which are 32 years old anyway. I would have to buy a whole new system for a turbo. Not turbo charging. Thats been decided and is firm.

 

Rhd turbo setups are not easy,the steering box is in the way. Also i don't want FI that i have to rev to get it to perform. Thats what a NA engine is for. Every turbo car i have driven is one i don't like. 

 

One option with NA tuning would be to skim the head to bump the Compression ratio. I have found a few local firms that could help. I will speak to them properly next couple weeks and decide which way to go. 

 

My general thinking is to get a engine management system fitted first that will allow proper tuning of a supercharger setup or NA tune setup. There is a company in raleigh that does omex. 

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Here is what I did, don’t know if it helps as it was a 535 not a 530.

 

3.5 block honed the bores, M535i pistons re-ringed (bumps compression),  later head slight port and polish, Alpina B10 Camshaft, Alpina ecu chip, fritzs full system and manifold, light weight single mass flywheel conversion, again from an early m30 e28 engine.  Slotted the camshaft sprocket (I would recommend this anyway) and then timed the cam in to perfection.  Above parts supplied by Fritz.
 

Result - biggest improvement is in torque, it will pull really well from low down and continues up to about 5500 rpm when it starts to fall off.  It will not rev out well though, seems to be a feature of the m30, but I am happy with how it drives.  It’s a 5 speed manual with a 3.45 diff.  I will change the diff to a 3.73 or even a 3.91 if I can find one.  
 

So my advice would be to start with the 3.5 block, can you not bore yours out to create a 3.5?  Then pistons cam etc.

 

the m30 is a nice reliable unit, but it’s never going to be anything special.  I can only compare with my M635 which I had for 15 years and modified the engine to 315 bhp, it revs completely differently to the normal m30 and would pull all the way to 7200rpm, very addictive and a stunning sound track!

Edited by M635uk

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Boring out the block is pointless. Might as well look for a m30b35 engine and put that in. It saying a 3.0. The m30b30 has a bore of 89mm and a stoke of 80mm. So boring out to 92mm would not get me 3.4l but 3.2 i.e pointless. 

 

Keen to get it on a dyno though and see what i am starting with. A compression test is needed before i commit to one course or another. 

 

What sort of numbers should one expect from a good m30 engine. Also is a cheaper kit of ebay any good or does it tell porkies.

Edited by bm0p700f

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Like I said it may not help as my mods were for a 3.5 to start off with, but they were given to provide some ideas that might help.  

You seem to dismiss all the suggestions that are offered to you so good luck with your search for more power, although that might be pointless.

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M635 you have stated you have improved the power output of you motors. Thats helpful. I.e there are gains to be had. 

 

Giving your experiences is helpful i.e modifications done, who did them problems encountered and solutions. Technical stuff is always welcome.

 

Telling me i am therefore dismissing your help is making it personal. I for my own reasons am saying no  to any log book changes i.e engine size or engine number changes and no  (witchcraft) turbos. I am saying no to turbos because i do not like the way they deliver power and they are the devils works. I have no evidence that they are the devils work or even for the devil, i simply do not like them. You may not get that and you do not have to. Thats not me dismissing your opinion but it is me knowing what i like and what i want to do. For me personally the engine block is part of this cars identity and for this car i would not be comfortable changing its identity unless the block cracked or simply wore out. 

 

No one should be offended by this.


Oh i have not posted here to fall out with anyone. 

 

 

Edited by bm0p700f

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Just booked a dyno session on the 10th may where a compression test will be run to see the overall health of the engine. They fit omex engine management and that what likely to be agreed if the engine is healthy enough. Mined to supercharge if the space issues that creates can be overcome. 

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I looked at this and felt the M90 was about the right size, i got one from the US and a megasquirt, injectors etc

 

In the end i concluded it was above my skill set.

 

Good luck with it if thats the way you go.

 

You might want to look at rotrex 'chargers too.

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OP, it looks as though you've narrowed your options to tuning your existing 3.0 engine retaining natural aspiration, or supercharging.

 

One is expensive and won't yield your target of 220/230bhp

 

The other will yield that power and then some more but will be very expensive indeed.

 

Good luck.

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All this tuning work, and an old 535d with a crafty remap hands you your arse on a silver plate. 

 

The old 3.0 is an okay engine and sort of tuneable. I have one in mine. It needs a better cam as the factory one is a bit tame. Same cam as the 3.5. A cam, head skim and proper ECU  remap might get a shade over 200 bhp albeit with less useable torque than a stock 3.5.

 

The E34/E32 3.0 has smaller ports and inlet valves than the 3.5. 

 

The first port of call is an ECU remap. As standard they are very tame (extremely lean) and were designed to run a catalytic converter. That's why they feel as flat as a fart. 

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13 hours ago, duncan-uk said:

I looked at this and felt the M90 was about the right size, i got one from the US and a megasquirt, injectors etc

 

In the end i concluded it was above my skill set.

 

Good luck with it if thats the way you go.

 

You might want to look at rotrex 'chargers too.

Rotrex charger could be useful. Compact and more easily mounted i think. Being belt driven low end torque is likely to be higher than with a turbo. 

 

The old user manual i have give a CR of 9:1 for this engine. Therefore NA tuning will require alot of work including increasing the Cr.

 

Given the CR there might be almost no engine work required for low boost pressures. That make a rootes blower quite attractive. 

 

Roll on the 10th May. I have 95% decided on omex engine management and thats the first step, get that fitted and the engine mapped properly. That give more time to work out what to do and gather parts. 

Edited by bm0p700f

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15 hours ago, Sir Anthony Regents-Park said:

All this tuning work, and an old 535d with a crafty remap hands you your arse on a silver plate. 

 

The old 3.0 is an okay engine and sort of tuneable. I have one in mine. It needs a better cam as the factory one is a bit tame. Same cam as the 3.5. A cam, head skim and proper ECU  remap might get a shade over 200 bhp albeit with less useable torque than a stock 3.5.

 

The E34/E32 3.0 has smaller ports and inlet valves than the 3.5. 

 

The first port of call is an ECU remap. As standard they are very tame (extremely lean) and were designed to run a catalytic converter. That's why they feel as flat as a fart. 

 

Already decided to do that as the first step. Yes they do have smaller ports/valves. That probably help low rpm torque though. The tamer cam was probably helps reduce HC emissions and improve fuel economy by reducing the overlap in both valves being open.   

The ideal cam would be the one fitted to the E9 3.0 cars. Does anyone have specs on those. I wonder how close the schirck cam  is to that. In any case that E9 cam or one made to a similar spec and a higher CR (a 1mm skim should bring the CR up 10:1 bit that seems alot for a skim.)  and modern engine management would be quite good and should do more than 200hp as that engine did 197hp in 1972.  Alpina got 250hp out of those engines but i don't know how.

 

Hense new question what spec did bmw use for the e9 cam. Its 272 degrees but i need more detail that that.

Edited by bm0p700f

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Just found a place in the usa that has lots of tuning parts for the m30. Korman autoworks. Maybe useful

Edited by bm0p700f

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Another thought is what if a b35 cylinder head was fitted to the 3.0l block along with the 3.5l inlet manifold. You would get the larger inlet ports and valves. Just thinking of various options.

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Fritz exhaust manifold being fitted today and the mechanic found one broken exhaust stud and another snapped while trying to remove. 

 

So to avoid removing the cylinder head the engine is coming out to drill out the studs and helicoil. Engine bay will be cleaned up and sump and rocker gaskets will be replaced. 

 

Opposite Glemsford motor services is a engineering machine shop that specialises in engine boring, honing, cylinder head tuning work e.t.c so it turns out i don't have to travel far at all. 

 

I will try to speak to him and see whats possible. 

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I have worked out a plan unless someone can see a flaw. The m30b30 engine uses pistons with a 10.4cc dome and a 65cc combustion chamber with 46mm/36mm valves with is about right for a 497cc cylinder volume.

 

The m30b25/28/34 cylinder head has a 58mm cc combustion chamber. Mate this to the m30b30 block and pistons and you get 10.44 CR or more of the head requires skimming.  Perhaps the pistons will need machine of valves reliefs. Difficult to know at this point. Does the cylinder fit?

 

The head then can be worked on. Maybe larger 47/37mm valves maybe not. Valve seat shaping apparently has benefits, Inlet port to manifold matching and maybe some port reshaping although i have no idea on this. Radco sport can work out what do here. They build and modify engines for a living. Interested on thoughts on inlet manifold. Stick with the stock manifold or buy the dblias ITB setup with there airbox. The dblias system looks the part. No idea if it will do anything. I have requested TB plate diameters and air box volume. Perhaps that will shed some light on if they are suitable. I will use the schrick or dblias cam. Hopefully that will give the engine a bit more poke. 

 

Omex eningement is happening. That means no AFM and a MAP and temp sensor will be used.

 

One way to find out what this produces. 

 

Thought about boring the block but i quite like the character of this engine. It revs well. I am reluctant to change that and of you start boring the block where do you stop 

Edited by bm0p700f

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Progress. New exhuast studs fitted. Exhuast manifolds on. Off to BMW in Bury St Edmunds next week to have an electrical issue sorted out then Rolling road @ radco engineering to see what its producing. Omex there after with O2, knock, MAP and air temp sensors. 

 

One way to find out what a m30b30 can do. 

 

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Exhuast is on and my i think its made a difference. With fritzs manifold it seems a bit quicker now. Felt more like a 535i really. I was not expecting much at all. 

 

Parts for engine overhaul almost decided. JE pistons 89mm bore 10.5:1 CR, dblias 276 degree camshaft and adjustable timing wheel. Some porting matching on the inlet valves perhaps. Cylinder head otherwise is not being touched. Throttle body will be bored out a bit. ITB's might happen but the cost is a bit high given they dont add power in the mid range. Omex engine managment too. Cost about £3000 for engineering/labour/skills i don't have  plus parts. So thats going to be reasonably expensive. The engine parts are about £1500 plus import taxes. Omex plus loom plus sensors  is another £1000 to £1500.

 

Quite happy with how it drove today. It does not need much more really. 

Edited by bm0p700f

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