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bm0p700f

Improvements new engine and restoration

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I note that the e34 is more equal length than the e28 which has to fit around the steering box.

 

I'm still not convinced they do much but happy to be proven wrong.

 

They do sound good though which encourages more spirited driving!

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Mission creep.

 

Today i bought a m30b35 bottom end. So radco engineering can start work on this block. New bearings and balancing everything. Perhaps the block will need boring to 92.5mm or just honing. New JE forged pistons will be ordered for a CR of 10.5:1.

 

When the block is ready the engine can come out and the cylinder head will be off for port matching to the b35 inlet manifold (bought with the block) and some minor modifications to the valves stems as well as new 47mm inlet valves. 

 

The camshaft is an alpina copy (FRITZ) and the ecu will be kept and an alpina b10 chip used (fritz). Those have also been paid for.

 

So it should perform when done like an alpina b10.

 

I might get a megasquirt ecu from the states which plugs into the motronic wiring loom so all it need is an IAT and mapping. 

 

So 254hp is what alpina got out of the b10. Time will tell what this one will do. Fritz claim it can do more. Who knows. Im happy wìth it now so i will be happy with when its all done what ever the engine is producing.

 

Now the bits are bought it definitely going to happen.

 

Also the windscreen is getting changed on friday. Thats only £160. Bargin.

 

Expected engine cost £4-5k unless there mission creep. 

 

Also on the cards is a respray. 

Edited by bm0p700f

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Because im old changing the engine bumps the insurance by only £90. Bargin. 

 

 

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Insurance i think is the least of the expenses :lol:

 

I know Motronic 1.3 is more mappable but in my experience i think the restrictions are this and the MAF and that to truely expolit the mods a tunable EMS is the way forward be that mega squirt/ omex / emerald etc.

 

Back in the day i thought the Miller WAR chip had some promise, seems the range has expanded since too.

 

https://www.millerperformancecars.com/store/show-by-car/e34

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On 19/04/2021 at 00:35, bm0p700f said:

 I for my own reasons am saying no  to any log book changes i.e engine size or engine number changes and no  (witchcraft) turbos.

 

 

17 hours ago, bm0p700f said:

Today i bought a m30b35 bottom end. So radco engineering can start work on this block. New bearings and balancing everything. Perhaps the block will need boring to 92.5mm or just honing. New JE forged pistons will be ordered for a CR of 10.5:1.

 

:lol: - just because.... we all know how this happens....

 

 

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Is was saying no at the start to try and keep the costs down. I was desperate to keep my want limited. However to more you think about it the more you talk yourself into it.  When fritz said they had a complete bottom end for £300 plus vat its hard to say no. I had already talked myself into having the block bored and buy a crank of ebay but boring the block that much cost ££££. This one is ready made. It just needs pistons.

 

One phone call and mission creep.

 

It not like m30 engines are growing on trees any more. Hardly any on ebay and the blocks or heads could be cracked. Cars get broken for a reason after all. 

 

As for engine management. The alpina chip is to get it running. its cheap and might work well.  I suspect i will get omex in the end or go cheaper with mega squirt in a motronic compatible box so it just plugs in. Both do speed density mapping. The later is likely and is $800 plus import taxes. Drop in the ocean 

 

 

Edited by bm0p700f

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It starts next week.

 

Picking up a head on monday too. 

 

The intention now is build a complete engine and do a swap. Might even go for new ancillaries. 33 year old alternator and pumps are just a breakdown waiting to happen. 

 

Its going to be a new car by the end of the year. 

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Picked up a m30b35 cylinder head tonight. All i need now is sump, crank sprocket, pulleys, e.t.c

 

 

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Just ordered a bunch of engine parts of bmw, valves some gaskets, timing chain, guides  and other bits. Its a long list. A new oil pump is ordered. Not taking any chances. It will be a fresh engine.

 

Next week i will order from the usa all the other bits that are required including gasket set, valve train parts (all of them) 39mm exhaust valves, pistons for 92.5mm bore and 10.5:1 CR, ignition parts, thermostat housing, thermostat, water pump and various ARP bolts. 

 

 

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Just ordered everything. Now a 10 week wait for pistons. Cant do much without these.

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Saved a bit of money though. I don't need a vernier cam sprocket. Alpina used bmw timing for there camshaft although there camshafts were ground for slightly different timing at top dead centre.

 

The cam sprocket was $150 but the shop wanted that much again for shipping from the usa and a $40 international transaction fee. I deal with foreign payments every day and it don't cost that much and i would have paid them in US Dollars. Also shipping cost seem steep for this item. I get ups rates that are cheaper to the usa and the box will have a higher volumetric weight. Its clear international trade is too much trouble for them

 Ce la ve. 

 

 

 

 

 

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Ireland engineering returned my paypal payment and i lost £100 in exchange rates. They don't like taking paypal. Well don't accept it then at your own checkout. Pistons and ARP bolts are coming through vac motorsports now. Bmw and schiedmann are supplying most of the rest. That delays everything now as three weeks lost. 

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Pretty much everything but the pistons are in now. So a full cylinder head rebuild can begin with everything except the casting and the valves being new. 

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I am keeping moronic 1.3. Since the engine uses an alpina cam copy an alpina chip should fuel it well enough after the afm spring tension is adjusted. I also have one of these from fritz bits. If it does not run the engine perfectly (although it should run it well enough) the engine builder think he knows someone who could map it. Robin has rollers so is well set up to sort the fueling and ignition up. Although Robin leaves the mapping to some one else. 

 

Robin will start the engine build next week now the valve guides have arrived.

 

An e12 m535i 6.9kg flywheel is on its way to me as well. Its getting real now. The point of a new flywheel is the m30b35 flywheel new is £900 plus vat and it a dual mass effort which is difficult to balance with the crankshaft. A single mass flywheel is much easier to balance. The whole rotating assembly will be balanced. 

 

Pistons should be ready to ship by late October. 

 

The only thing this engine is not getting is larger exhaust valves. Alpina used 38mm valves but 37mm should be fine too. 

 

I suppose the other thing is I am retaining the stock m30 induction system. Alpina moved it to the other side of the engine bay and modified the inlet manifold. I am not clear what the gain is there. Got new plastic bits to fit of the lights to make it a cold air intake again.

 

I don't think I am cutting any corners here. Everything in  the cylinder apart from the valves and the casting will be new. 

 

The list of new parts extends to the thermostat and thermostat housing, oil pump parts, oil pump chain, guide and tensioner, timing chain, tensioner and guide, every gasket, water pump...... 

 

The original intention was to use parts from the existing engine in the car although this will be not be needed now. That m30b30 needs to find a new home. So that's another project...I also have to work out where I am going to store it. 

 

Got a set of oz wheels for it as well. These are getting refurbished next week. 

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So after knocking back everyone who suggested putting a bigger engine in...

 

 

...you're putting a bigger engine in and getting rid of your beloved M30B30?

 

BTW, you've got yourself confused about which Alpina engines had the intake moved to the other side of the engine bay, and Alpina did quite a bit more to the E34 B10 3.5 than a chip, camshaft and your 'adjust the AFM spring tension' trick...

 

Good luck.

 

By the way, how much is all this costing, especially compared to the original suggestion of just dropping in a widely available and cheap M30B35 engine?  I can't help think that you are are going beyond 5 figures and if you had spent that and got rid of your own car you could have bought a genuine E34 B10 3.5 Alpina...

 

 

 

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The original suggestions where to put a used m30b35 in the car which did not appeal. My intention to keep the existing engine was based on the fact  M30B35 engines are  not common anymore. They are not that cheap when they come up up sale and neither are there many. Those that are about are coming out of breakers and cars get broken for a reason. So a old engine may not turn out to be that cheap and will not be producing what it once did.  That's why i did not want to go with that option. So I thought it might be more sensible to start with a known good engine. A call to fritz for another thing ended with the purchase a b35 block as the intention then was to strip the current engine of parts and use its cylinder head. That morphed into buying all the bits for a fresh build partly because the camshaft opens very quickly and fresh springs are quite useful. 

 

The new engine is getting more done to it that a cam and tweeking the afm, there's new pistons with a higher compression ratio for one plus other work. 

 

Good rust free e34 are not growing on  trees so it's best stick with the car I have which is remarkably rust free.

 

As for the cost we it will be what it is. Its.not going to be 5 figures for the engine. That I know as I know how I have spent on parts and Robin has a good idea of the work and cost involved. 

 

Also if you have a list of the specific  changes alpina made to the m30 please share for example what they did to the inlet ports . Most people who say alpina did more work than a camshaft and a tweeked afm never seem to elaborate on what they did. I do have an idea of what they did and the changes to the cylinder head are mostly removing inlet port casting imperfections, inlet port matching, some light porting but the ports where not polished as far as I know neither where they significantly enlarged. The higher power output of the alpina engine seems come from bump in compression ratio and the camshaft, which opens to high lift very early and has a longer duration. It allows the engine to develop peak power at 6000 rpm instead of 5700rpm. The larger exhaust valves by 1mm in the alpina engine I am sure helps achieve the extra few hp at 6000 rpm. That is why the inlet port modifications are minor. The small change in peak power rim and no change in peak torque rpm also points to no change in inlet runner length. The bump in torque is probably due to the camshaft and higher CR. So given the larger valves are not being used I do expect peak power to be down by a few hp. However the torque between 2000 and 4000 rpm should be unaffected and the new engine should get somewhere close to the 245 ft.lb that alpina got. That what I am after. Given the current engine has no more than 192 ft.lb that will be a noticeable change. A stock.b35 engine when new developed 225 ft.lb at 4000 rpm

 

Engines are air pumps. Therefore there are general principles which apply to all engines. Robin who is doing the work builds race engines for a living. If he can tune one those principles can be used to tune another. 

 

I have had the car ten years and I am not parting with it. I have grown a bit attached to it. Buying a genuine alpina simply does not appeal to me as I am not attached to that car, neither can I afford one. Its also ready made and I do not get to find out how alpina got 254hp out of these motors.

 

Why the hostility?  

 

Once the build starts I will add photo of what's done and final spec.

 

A new cam sprocket has just turned up. That was the last one. It's NLA from BMW now. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by bm0p700f

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Just seen that one. All the others I have seen have been 23k to 30k.

 

 

The fact its £15k does beg the question why when all the others cost more. 

 

Oh its an auto. Not buying an auto. An auto is fine in a range rover but it's not for me in a 5 series.

 

I did see an nice e21 though on the bay listed as an e30. No must not. Must not. Really I must not.

Edited by bm0p700f

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An mot check shows why it's cheaper than the others. No MOT and the last one had plenty of advisories that had not been addressed since the previous MOT. 3 years without an MOT too. Therefore I see a can of worms. All that's wrong with mine is the paint and headlining. Nothing structural or mechanical. Hense why I figured sticking with the e34 I have is a wise choice. 

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