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Qasim

Wheel wobble

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Hi all.

 

I've developed a wheel wobble on the front end. I've changed the wheel bearings for FAG units and the cruise control is now working perfectly. I have a wobble that can be felt at around 80ish and is worse on braking at any high speeds, literally the front wheels shaking and can be felt through the steering wheel. 

I've changed the front lower control arms on both sides as there was one ball joint with some play. 

I got both front tyres balanced again yesterday and it has improved a little.

 

I currently have winter tyres and wheels so will be changing them this weekend back to my style 66s so it will rule out any wheels/tyre issues.

 

I upgraded to 324 mm mintex discs and pagid pads in September and braided brake hoses. I did buy used callipers and they looked ok. No evidence of any heat spots or uneven wear on the discs.

 

I am also getting 4 wheel alignment this weekend and changing the propshaft center bearing and vibration damper.

 

I know there are topics about this previously but I've not really found anything that helps.

Edited by Qasim

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7 minutes ago, Qasim said:

Hi all.

 

I've developed a wheel wobble on the front end. I've changed the wheel bearings for FAG units and the cruise control is now working perfectly. I have a wobble that can be felt at around 80ish and is worse on braking at any high speeds, literally the front wheels shaking and can be felt through the steering wheel. 

I've changed the front lower control arms on both sides as there was one ball joint with some play. 

I got both front tyres balanced again yesterday and it has improved a little.

 

I currently have winter tyres and wheels so will be changing them this weekend back to my style 66s so it will rule out any wheels/tyre issues.

 

I upgraded to 324 mm mintex discs and pagid pads in September and braided brake hoses. I did buy used callipers and they looked ok. No evidence of any heat spots or uneven wear on the discs.

 

I am also getting 4 wheel alignment this weekend and changing the propshaft center bearing and vibration damper.

 

I know there are topics about this previously but I've not really found anything that helps.

Inspect track rod ends and inner steering knuckles.

Another thing, front upper arms usually is main problem. Ball joints might feel tight, but bushings can be damaged over time. Engine undertray and brake air ducts are obstructing them, so a lot of times thay are missed on MOT. I wouldn't do wheel alignment before careful front suspension arm inspection. 

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Slightly sticky brake caliper would be my first place to look. Had exact same symptoms (twice) on mine, was each of the front calipers going bad. Changed all 4 front arms, ARB bushes and drop links which had no effect.

 

Still had a slight wobble at about 65-70mph which was cured by getting the front wheels balanced on a Hunter "Road Force" machine.

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12 hours ago, Ray112 said:

Inspect track rod ends and inner steering knuckles.

Another thing, front upper arms usually is main problem. Ball joints might feel tight, but bushings can be damaged over time. Engine undertray and brake air ducts are obstructing them, so a lot of times thay are missed on MOT. I wouldn't do wheel alignment before careful front suspension arm inspection. 

 

Absolutely this

 

I recently did the inner CV joints and track rod ends on my touring as a wobble would appear 65/70 and then disappear again.

 

Both were seized, couldn't adjust, but both had slight play and I mean slight, but enough to upset the balance. Swapped them out for all brand new Moog parts and zero issues since :) 

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So I inspected the upper arms. Driver's side has a lot of play in it. Passenger side has a little. The ball joint side doesn't have much play. I've seen some people have used polybushes for these. What do you think?

 

Passenger side 

https://youtube.com/shorts/9zMwmqO2RnU

 

Driver's side

https://youtu.be/knUbNCLe_yg

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20 minutes ago, Qasim said:

So I inspected the upper arms. Driver's side has a lot of play in it. Passenger side has a little. The ball joint side doesn't have much play. I've seen some people have used polybushes for these. What do you think?

 

Passenger side 

https://youtube.com/shorts/9zMwmqO2RnU

 

Driver's side

https://youtu.be/knUbNCLe_yg

 

Stick with OEM spec rubber IMO 

 

Just replace the whole arm, much easier. Moog, Meyle or Lemforder 

 

Polybushes are great, but they can make the ride firm and pass a lot of vibration through to the cabin etc... 

 

It is a personal preference, but I wouldn't do it on my E39 because of the above 

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I’d second the sticky brake callipers. Had exactly the same symptoms that were like that for 1000 miles and then suddenly over a few miles disk went too warped to drive. New calliper and disks and no more wobble. You mentioned you’d replaced them with secondhand units. I’d say that’s a big clue given all the other things that’s you’ve done. All the things you’ve done were on my list to do until the disc warped on the way to its MOT!! 

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Many things that can cause that distinctive E39 wobble which I've had on all of mine through the years. On previous cars I never got to the bottom of it despite replacing various things, but for my current touring which had it from purchase, it disappeared completely after I changed front brake discs and pads a few weeks ago.

 

Still not sure how the brakes would have caused it only around a certain speed range and not all the time, but I'm not complaining!

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1 minute ago, Pzero said:

Many things that can cause that distinctive E39 wobble which I've had on all of mine through the years. On previous cars I never got to the bottom of it despite replacing various things, but for my current touring which had it from purchase, it disappeared completely after I changed front brake discs and pads a few weeks ago.

 

Still not sure how the brakes would have caused it only around a certain speed range and not all the time, but I'm not complaining!

Poorly balanced brake discs from factory maybe? Not common but theoretically possible. 

 

I had experience that brake vibration, actually quite bad starting even at 40mph braking already, in the end was caused by poor quality brake pads.  Two years ago going through Germany brake pad warning light came on, so while I was on holidays, in some local car part store bought some non branded pads (only ones in stock at the time) and replaced. About year later vibration started to appear. Inspected control arms, rebuilt calipers - nothing helped. I already thought it's brake discs warped, which actually were not that old,in the end after replacing pads, vibration is gone. 

I would never believe myself that pads can be a cause for brake vibration, until I saw it myself. Maybe they were too easily burning onto disc, leaving neverending deposits on disc, honestly it's hard to explain for myself.

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I tried discs, pads (various) skimming discs on car, arms & bushes, track rods, drop links, arb bushes and would still return.

 

Finally cured after changing hubs and bearings.

 

I have a suspicion the hub insert seats wear/ move

 

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8 minutes ago, duncan-uk said:

I tried discs, pads (various) skimming discs on car, arms & bushes, track rods, drop links, arb bushes and would still return.

 

Finally cured after changing hubs and bearings.

 

I have a suspicion the hub insert seats wear/ move

 

Good point, but shouldn't that be possible to notice when inspecting control arms?

Can't remember who told me that, but some ///M models ( can't remember exactly which one, or is it for most of them), has meant to have wheel bearings replaced every time you replace brake discs, only to be sure there's no run-out on bearings, which will cause brake vibration soon.

It make some sense, and if you say you replaced bearings and hub carriers, I would more likely think it's wheel bearings, which was a cause of vibration.

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Not that i could see but i have had the seat move in the hub previously hence looking at new hubs.

 

I don't think there is one culprit but lots of little areas that add up!

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