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rickyclean

F11 Again or move on to a G31?

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Afternoon all,

 

I hope you are all keeping safe and well during these rather tricky times!

 

I haven't posted on here in a while, but wanted to gain your thoughts. My much loved 2013 F11 525d M Sport Lci (so 4 pot not 6 pot) is up for renewal in May and I need to make a decision as to what to do as I have the following choices in front of me:

 

  1. Pay the balloon payment (currently £7,000) 
  2. Refinance the £7,000 for a couple of years
  3. Find a new car (be it new, nearly new, or used) through the dealer and hope they value the my car higher than the ballon payment.

 

Thing is this, though I have had a disappointing service experience with BMW, the car itself had been terrific to own and I believe it to be one of the most complete packages that I have so far experienced. The 525d is a terrific blend of performance and economy and mechanically has not really put a foot wrong. It has now covered 118,000 miles so the mileages is on the large side, but since the pandemic my travel needs have greatly reduced and my annual mileage has gone from roughly 18,000 miles a year to barely 5,000 miles in 2020 (and even less at this going rate). As I have a Mini Cooper S as a run around, the 5 series has very much been relegated to motorway trips and longer journeys when all the family and dog are involved. 

 

What's on my mind is this - the car will 8 years old in September and will have done some sizeable mileage. When the BMW warranty ran out, I paid to keep this in operation as I always had the dreaded cam chains in the back of my mind and a potential eye watering bill. I have only ever been able to use the warranty once for two failed door actuators, and never had cause to use it since. This is currently costing me £140 a month (a sizeable increase from the year before) and with the age and mileage of the car would seem a sensible thing to hold on to, but with ever decreasing value of the car and the ever increasing cost of the warranty it soon becomes unjustifiable (I am sure many of you will be thinking this is the case already!). 

 

So If I keep it then at least I know what I have got, I love the car and I am very very happy with it. If I decided to change, then I want to stick with BMW and a 5 series touring, which then begs the question, should I go for a last of the line F11 (circa 2016/2017) which would mean I could probably upgrade to a 530d or do I go for a G31 520d (and potential get a remap done if the performance needs it). Now, I know that with this significantly reduces mileage the idea of a diesel should be obsolete, but F11 petrols are as rare as hens teeth and when they come up they are at a premium due to the negative press diesel is getting. There is a larger availability of petrol G31s, but they also carry a premium and what is in my price range is the 520i... I would love a 530d G31 (Vines lent me one a while back and it was sensational) but that is out of reach for me. I also like the nature of the diesels characteristics for a larger car and as I travel (when I can) to France and then Italy in the spring and summer I welcome the additional MPG. There is also the added benefit of their being more supply of diesels and with the negativity towards diesel car in general, have helped drop their values (A potential risk later on I am sure)....

 

So if I were for not keep my current steed, then what would you good peeps go for, a very nicely specced 530d F11 or a G31an equally well equipped  520d? There is no two ways about it the, 6 cylinder is more powerful and has a more graceful engine note than the 4 pot diesels, but once on the move you can't really hear the engine at all and with driving how it is these days, the additional grunt of the 530d seems to be a decision ruled by the heart rather than the head.

 

Cheers All

 

RC

 

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23 minutes ago, rickyclean said:

Afternoon all,

 

I hope you are all keeping safe and well during these rather tricky times!

 

I haven't posted on here in a while, but wanted to gain your thoughts. My much loved 2013 F11 525d M Sport Lci (so 4 pot not 6 pot) is up for renewal in May and I need to make a decision as to what to do as I have the following choices in front of me:

 

  1. Pay the balloon payment (currently £7,000) 
  2. Refinance the £7,000 for a couple of years
  3. Find a new car (be it new, nearly new, or used) through the dealer and hope they value the my car higher than the ballon payment.

 

Thing is this, though I have had a disappointing service experience with BMW, the car itself had been terrific to own and I believe it to be one of the most complete packages that I have so far experienced. The 525d is a terrific blend of performance and economy and mechanically has not really put a foot wrong. It has now covered 118,000 miles so the mileages is on the large side, but since the pandemic my travel needs have greatly reduced and my annual mileage has gone from roughly 18,000 miles a year to barely 5,000 miles in 2020 (and even less at this going rate). As I have a Mini Cooper S as a run around, the 5 series has very much been relegated to motorway trips and longer journeys when all the family and dog are involved. 

 

What's on my mind is this - the car will 8 years old in September and will have done some sizeable mileage. When the BMW warranty ran out, I paid to keep this in operation as I always had the dreaded cam chains in the back of my mind and a potential eye watering bill. I have only ever been able to use the warranty once for two failed door actuators, and never had cause to use it since. This is currently costing me £140 a month (a sizeable increase from the year before) and with the age and mileage of the car would seem a sensible thing to hold on to, but with ever decreasing value of the car and the ever increasing cost of the warranty it soon becomes unjustifiable (I am sure many of you will be thinking this is the case already!). 

 

So If I keep it then at least I know what I have got, I love the car and I am very very happy with it. If I decided to change, then I want to stick with BMW and a 5 series touring, which then begs the question, should I go for a last of the line F11 (circa 2016/2017) which would mean I could probably upgrade to a 530d or do I go for a G31 520d (and potential get a remap done if the performance needs it). Now, I know that with this significantly reduces mileage the idea of a diesel should be obsolete, but F11 petrols are as rare as hens teeth and when they come up they are at a premium due to the negative press diesel is getting. There is a larger availability of petrol G31s, but they also carry a premium and what is in my price range is the 520i... I would love a 530d G31 (Vines lent me one a while back and it was sensational) but that is out of reach for me. I also like the nature of the diesels characteristics for a larger car and as I travel (when I can) to France and then Italy in the spring and summer I welcome the additional MPG. There is also the added benefit of their being more supply of diesels and with the negativity towards diesel car in general, have helped drop their values (A potential risk later on I am sure)....

 

So if I were for not keep my current steed, then what would you good peeps go for, a very nicely specced 530d F11 or a G31an equally well equipped  520d? There is no two ways about it the, 6 cylinder is more powerful and has a more graceful engine note than the 4 pot diesels, but once on the move you can't really hear the engine at all and with driving how it is these days, the additional grunt of the 530d seems to be a decision ruled by the heart rather than the head.

 

Cheers All

 

RC

 

 

The G31 has been out for 4 years now and so any F11 you look at will be at least 4 years old already. I'd look at the G31 in 520d guise if I were in your position - the B47 x20d engine is a fine one.

Extended warranties are a risk based purchase which don't work for me. That's a lot of money to fork out every month.

Edited by Matthew Ashton

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Moving from a F11 to a G31 last year it was a very nice step up. I felt going from an 05 A4 avant to the F11 was a big step up and would say 65 plate F11 to a new (pre reg) G31 at least 70% as big a step forwards

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My thoughts are;

  • If your mileage has dropped, do you need another one? You're only paying more to get newer, and it'll still depreciate regardless of miles
  • Pay the 7K off if you can, unless you have a savings account paying more than the interest on refinancing it you'll end up paying more
  • Drop the warranty. For £1.7k a year thats a lot of repairs which you aren't getting . . . . . put it into a pot and save it up
  • Wait a few years with the money you're saving above and then jump into another car when the ICE scene has a clear route forward; Blue Gas, synthetic fuels, ethanol based fuels are the future for combustion engines. 

 

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I had a 2016 F10 520d and went to a G30 530d (albeit with an M140i in-between), honestly the step up form the F10 (which is still a fantastic car), just feels massive. The F10 to me always felt like a big 5 Series, the G30 feels like a small 7 if that makes sense. I'd also go for a 520d. I've had a 520i & a 520d as a courtesy car and for me the 520d is just miles ahead of the 20i in almost every area, feels quicker, much better on fuel and just a nicer drive.

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2 hours ago, dj1233 said:

My thoughts are;

  • If your mileage has dropped, do you need another one? You're only paying more to get newer, and it'll still depreciate regardless of miles
  • Pay the 7K off if you can, unless you have a savings account paying more than the interest on refinancing it you'll end up paying more
  • Drop the warranty. For £1.7k a year thats a lot of repairs which you aren't getting . . . . . put it into a pot and save it up
  • Wait a few years with the money you're saving above and then jump into another car when the ICE scene has a clear route forward; Blue Gas, synthetic fuels, ethanol based fuels are the future for combustion engines. 

 

 

I'm with dj1233. Since you are not doing that many miles and have a cooper S for fun, why pay for a new car to sit there doing nothing. Pay off the £7k if you have the cash. If not, maybe try personal loan from bank. I'm not sure about your bank but my bank do 3.3% APR which is much cheaper than re-finance with bmw (I think now it's 10+% APR). In this case, you can sell the car anytime to anybody without getting the finance comany involved then clear the personal loan. For the car at this age and mileage, I think you will lost much less than a newer F11 or G31 (assuming you are looking at 2016-2017 reg cars). So when you need the new car, you can sell this and get a new one. Let someone else pay for the depreciation for the period that you know you are not going to use it.

 

Since you are not driving the car that much, I would worry less about the warranty. £1.7k per year is a lot. The threat of big repair bill is much less than the price for the warranty. However, this is only my opinion though.

 

Between F11 and G31, I would say go for the G31. First of all, it's a more evolved car than F11 so it's a touch better in all aspects than F11. Secondly, the F11's calibration sort of makes you feel the car is more lazy than the calibration of G31, at least in comfort mode. However, this is still my opinion though. I own both F10 and G31. Sometime switch between two cars back to back and this is what I feel immediately after the switch. However, I have to point out that my G31 is 2020MY car so it has the MHT and the B47 has two turbos instead of one although both cars are 520d rating at 140kw and 400NM.

Edited by q96169we

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You probably don't have much equity (read: none) in your car if you still owe £7k on it. I'm in a very similar car to you (2013 525d but pre-LCI), and I toy with changing it every so often. I don't owe anything on it, but if I changed it...

I would probably fall into the luxury car tax if I bought anything registered after March 2017, i.e. virtually all G30's.

Would it be any more reliable than what I have currently (which has been faultless).

The F11 still looks great; hardly belies its mileage and age.

Would the new car have the toys I now like (comfort seats, EDC, pan roof)?

 

I'm going to stick with mine for a while yet. As I said, it owes me nothing.

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Agree with those thoughts, same position in a 520d F11 Luxury. I’ve toyed the last couple of years about changing to a G31 but just can’t fault the F11.

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If you have the opportunity to go to a newer model always do that.

 

If you are used to the 4 pot diesel then go for the 520d in G31 guise. While the B47 is proving to be a far more robust engine than the N47 in your car, but going on the B47 in my dads X3, its a tad too noisy for me especially when on idle.  

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I feel mixed over the G30 cars in general. At least the ones I have driven have always had questionable build quality with rattles and vibration (probably not helped by the B47). 

 

Did the steering feel better a tad and not quite as heavy handed as the F series cars. But I have one or two that made me feel sickly due to a side to side motion on the motorway in a straight line, tyre pressures were all the same so left me feeling confused.

 

If I had to say anything though the more recent bmw's from the last year or two, irrespective of model, I have come across some obvious cost cutting measures. Even many 8 series owners are having issues early on with b pillar trim failing regularly to 840i's needing new diffs with little mileage. As for the G20 3 series OTA update bricking cars well...better less said (on top of the mirror saga).

 

The B47 is beginning to have the odd timing chain issue I know of a few needing chains at 80k. But I think the interim servicing message is more widely known now. 

 

Additionally the EGR valves still seem to be causing issues on the B47 and now 57 as well. Straight from a master techs mouth if that is any guidance regarding engines.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Ninja59

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7 minutes ago, Ninja59 said:

with rattles and vibration (probably not helped by the B47). 

 

The B47 is beginning to have the odd timing chain issue I know of a few needing chains at 80k. But I think the interim servicing message is more widely known now. 

 

 

 

 


The B47 in my dads G01 is really quite noisy when outside the car and it fair moves about on its mounts. The 18d versions of it are particularly course sounding. 
 

My dad at the moment is doing oil changes every 6 months on his B47 just to keep the chains sweet.  
 

Spending my inheritance more like:P, I’ve told him he only needs to do it once a year.....

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I would agree Andrew having seen the B47 in the G30 moving in the mounts I don't get where the course tone comes from, probably the injection side. Although the B series went back to piezo injectors, and brutally having spoken to a tech the blocks are very similar.

 

I have read somewhere bmw pretty just wanted to distance itself from the N series engines to a degree. Which I could believe as so much is shared with the final N series versions.

 

Overall, I find the G30 a difficult one to sum up as I have seen quite a number of issues (although the G20 3 series has been worse).

 

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6 minutes ago, 535i Andrew said:


The B47 in my dads G01 is really quite noisy when outside the car and it fair moves about on its mounts. The 18d versions of it are particularly course sounding. 
 

My dad at the moment is doing oil changes every 6 months on his B47 just to keep the chains sweet.  
 

Spending my inheritance more like:P, I’ve told him he only needs to do it once a year.....

A lot of my mates have f10 and f07 beemers with n47 engines. One is 60 reg f10 with 160k with original chains and no noise. The other one is 62 reg with 80k and chains were replaced due to noise. F07 62 reg 140k sweet as and no issues.  So i think it is depends how lucky you are when buying n47 or b47 engine.

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If it was me and just my opinion, I would go for an F11 530d 2016/2017, If you cant get a G31 in 30d format. Although I havent driven a G31 I cant imagine its a leap forward but I maybe wrong, I have driven a G21 in 30d format and it was nice from an engine/gearbox perspective but the build quality wasnt great. Lots of rattles and trim seemed cheap in places, getting back into my F11 felt like a jump into much more luxury..

 

For me the joy of mine is the engine and gearbox, "No replacement for displacement"

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23 hours ago, 535i Andrew said:

If you have the opportunity to go to a newer model always do that.

If you can afford it, yes. If it saddles you with debt, then fundamentally ask yourself the question if you're making the best move. 

 

On the replacement for displacement argument, this isn't Pistonheads, nor an elitist forum for 6 cylinders+ only cars, all are welcome (I think).

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10 minutes ago, BFleming said:

On the replacement for displacement argument, this isn't Pistonheads, nor an elitist forum for 6 cylinders+ only cars, all are welcome (I think).

 

My tongue is firmly in cheek with some of my comments, all cars* are indeed welcome.

 

It's the cars owners I frown over.:lol:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*except Audi's of course :P

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As I clearly said at the start of my post "my opinion" of course all are welcome majority of 5 series are 20d format @BFleming I had an Audi 2.0 tdi for 11years, and going from that to a 3.0 6cyl was night and day in terms of enjoyment to drive (and I really loved that Audi!!). 

Edited by percha

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13 hours ago, percha said:

If they did a 535i F11 I would be very tempted!

Sent from my SM-G996B using Tapatalk
 

 

I've got a late 66 Plate 535i F11 (Petrol) with a spec to die for that i'm thinking of selling if you're interested... ;)

 

C.

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Thanks everyone, these are all valid points and ones I am wrestling with. Speaking with various dealers I am getting offer from negative equity to £1,500 in the pocket for my car, but all of this is offset against either the value of the car or the APR being charged. One particular G31 I have found that ticks the boxes would cost me slightly less than what I am paying now with the warranty. I understand your arguments on the warranty, and this was a considered choice as I wanted to be sure the car was covered for any big bills especially regarding the chains. With the finance I have on offer to me it would actually cost me about the same to have the newer car than borrow over 2 years ( I would not want to keep the F11 much longer than that). Yes I could dip into my savings to buy the car outright, but I prefer a manageable monthly sum than to take money out of my pot (I'd rather keep that on stand by for school fees etc.). I also run the car through my wife's business to offset the cost against tax.

 

Regarding the merits of the G30 and G31, I have only ever drive a 530e G30 and a 530d G31 both in M Sport Trim. I must confess I did not think it felt less well built than my F11 and there were no rattles to speak of (though that is not to say there won't be). I certainly liked the way they both drove with the 530d frankly being rather epic. What I also appreciated was the mush more integrated tech and the more modern feel. If I had the funds I would get a 540i... My business partner has a 340i touring and it is a sensational engine. 530d is out of reach.... My sister has an F11 520d 2015 with the B47 engine and it seems more civilised to my 525d on tick over and light driving around London (I have not experienced it beyond that except when I sourced it and test drove it for her but apart from remembering it was an excellent car I could not tell you anymore). The only thing I noticed is the stop star was much more juddery. 

 

As for the Mini, that will be going this year to be replaced by something a little more engaging....

 

Thanks again all for your sage counsel it is greatly appreciated!

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6 hours ago, rickyclean said:

Thanks everyone, these are all valid points and ones I am wrestling with. Speaking with various dealers I am getting offer from negative equity to £1,500 in the pocket for my car, but all of this is offset against either the value of the car or the APR being charged. One particular G31 I have found that ticks the boxes would cost me slightly less than what I am paying now with the warranty. I understand your arguments on the warranty, and this was a considered choice as I wanted to be sure the car was covered for any big bills especially regarding the chains. With the finance I have on offer to me it would actually cost me about the same to have the newer car than borrow over 2 years ( I would not want to keep the F11 much longer than that). Yes I could dip into my savings to buy the car outright, but I prefer a manageable monthly sum than to take money out of my pot (I'd rather keep that on stand by for school fees etc.). I also run the car through my wife's business to offset the cost against tax.

 

Regarding the merits of the G30 and G31, I have only ever drive a 530e G30 and a 530d G31 both in M Sport Trim. I must confess I did not think it felt less well built than my F11 and there were no rattles to speak of (though that is not to say there won't be). I certainly liked the way they both drove with the 530d frankly being rather epic. What I also appreciated was the mush more integrated tech and the more modern feel. If I had the funds I would get a 540i... My business partner has a 340i touring and it is a sensational engine. 530d is out of reach.... My sister has an F11 520d 2015 with the B47 engine and it seems more civilised to my 525d on tick over and light driving around London (I have not experienced it beyond that except when I sourced it and test drove it for her but apart from remembering it was an excellent car I could not tell you anymore). The only thing I noticed is the stop star was much more juddery. 

 

As for the Mini, that will be going this year to be replaced by something a little more engaging....

 

Thanks again all for your sage counsel it is greatly appreciated!

Hi. I dont think that g30 is not as good built quality as f10/11. I drove couple g30's and i really liked them. Feels really light and nippy,as for f10 it feels like a big heavy,lazy car. I am thinking of buying 540i g30 next year hopefully.

I think that if you have funds and can afford to change a car then why not,that is why we are working for,to have fun.

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