Jump to content
Flat Cap

Major Service query

Recommended Posts

Chaps, just got my motor back from its major service at a local garage that I haven't used before. 

  • 50 point inspection
  • oil, air, fuel and pollen filters replaced (with Mahle filters)
  • Forte engine oil flush
  • Forte diesel treatment
  • 6.5 litres engine oil - 5w30 ACEAC3LL04 fully synthetic low SAPS

 

Is an engine flush and fuel treatment standard procedure as part of a major service? 

I'm sure I read somewhere that BMW do not recommend any fuel additives be used.

 

Also, I was offered a choice of two engine oils - a generic LL04 and a Castrol LL04 (at twice the price).

I went for the generic stuff.

- a wise choice? given that I'll be changing the oil every 8k or so

- a daft choice? you get what you pay for

- no biggy?   

 

Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Flat Cap said:

Chaps, just got my motor back from its major service at a local garage that I haven't used before. 

  • 50 point inspection
  • oil, air, fuel and pollen filters replaced (with Mahle filters)
  • Forte engine oil flush
  • Forte diesel treatment
  • 6.5 litres engine oil - 5w30 ACEAC3LL04 fully synthetic low SAPS

 

Is an engine flush and fuel treatment standard procedure as part of a major service? 

I'm sure I read somewhere that BMW do not recommend any fuel additives be used.

 

Also, I was offered a choice of two engine oils - a generic LL04 and a Castrol LL04 (at twice the price).

I went for the generic stuff.

- a wise choice? given that I'll be changing the oil every 8k or so

- a daft choice? you get what you pay for

- no biggy?   

 

Thanks.

 

BMW don't recommend diesel fuel additives but people do use them. I wouldn't do an engine oil flush as the engine internals shouldn't require them and you don't want to dislodge something that could cause internal damage to the engine - extreme case only though.

 

Personally I will always use the best oil I can get as oil is one of the 2 most important fluids keeping the engine in good order - But that is me and my opinion. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Flat Cap said:

 

Is an engine flush and fuel treatment standard procedure as part of a major service? 

I'm sure I read somewhere that BMW do not recommend any fuel additives be used.

 

 

Whilst they may not recommend BMW do sell fuel additives so take from that what you will.

I use a dose of Archoil every tank. my cars relatively high mileage and my injector values are spot on. they were also visually very decent when recently removed to change the cam cover. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Matthew Ashton said:

I wouldn't do an engine oil flush - too late now, done as part of the service but i'll ask them to omit it next time.

 

Personally I will always use the best oil I can get - if the spec is LL04, what makes one oil better than another?

 

oil is one of the 2 most important fluids keeping the engine in good order - what's the other fluid?  The coolant?

 

Edited by Flat Cap

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Coolant is the other fluid and I would only use BMW's specified.

 

As for the differences between cheap and more expensive oils, I'm no scientist and don't normally get drawn into the expensive=better argument. However when it comes to the engine lubrication, Shell, Castrol, Triple QX give me confidence I'm doing the right thing by the car. In my humble opinion an extra £30 or £40 on an oil service provides me with peace of mind I wouldn't get knowing I'd chosen a lesser brand. And probably more beneficial than fuel additive snake oil :-)  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Matthew Ashton said:

Coolant is the other fluid and I would only use BMW's specified.

 

As for the differences between cheap and more expensive oils, I'm no scientist and don't normally get drawn into the expensive=better argument. However when it comes to the engine lubrication, Shell, Castrol, Triple QX give me confidence I'm doing the right thing by the car. In my humble opinion an extra £30 or £40 on an oil service provides me with peace of mind I wouldn't get knowing I'd chosen a lesser brand. And probably more beneficial than fuel additive snake oil :-)  

 

I thought Triple QX is eurocarparts' own brand, which I categorise it as 'lesser brand'. Do you have further information about this brand which I can use to move Triple QX to big brand?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, q96169we said:

I thought Triple QX is eurocarparts' own brand, which I categorise it as 'lesser brand'. Do you have further information about this brand which I can use to move Triple QX to big brand?

 

I'm probably mistaken but I read this was produced by Shell. 

 

Personally I'm a Shell Helix ECT C3 kind of guy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Flat Cap said:

Ok thanks for that.

Interesting to read what some think of Castrol 

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=1452142

 

It's all subjective, just like the additive conversation. How does anyone really know whether they make a difference unless you run 2 identical engines in identical circumstances and journeys one with, one without and then have scientific analysis of the drained oil and strip down the engine to analyses injectors etc.

With my old F11, I always used Texaco diesel or the odd top up at Costco and never had a problem. I cleaned the intake manifold of gunk once which made a difference to economy and performance but of course that has nothing to do with the fuel used, they clog up due to the recirculation of oil vapour from the crank case mixed with the recirculated exhaust gas.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Matthew Ashton said:

 

I'm probably mistaken but I read this was produced by Shell. 

 

Personally I'm a Shell Helix ECT C3 kind of guy.

I'm always using the ECT C3 5W30 as well. For both my F10 and G31 (both have B47 but one is single turbo and the other is twin turbo plus MHT), I change the oil and filter myself half way through the service indicator. So, it's about 9-10k.

Just curious to check whether you have further information about the Triple QX. About five years ago when I still owned a first gen Mazda 6, I usually used the Triple QX 5w-20 oil and found it quite good. For exactly the same weight (5w-20) and manufacturer approval, Castol also had one. At that time, I thought maybe Castol made the oil for Triple QX. Maybe eurocarparts just sources any oils on the market that meet different manufacturers' approval spec and re-bottle them as Triple QX.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If two oils are the same spec, then what makes one a 'lesser' brand?

Lots of forum members seem to be changing their oil every 10k miles or less; surely even a lesser brand oil is good for 10k?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Flat Cap said:

If two oils are the same spec, then what makes one a 'lesser' brand?

Lots of forum members seem to be changing their oil every 10k miles or less; surely even a lesser brand oil is good for 10k?

 

The same broad specification doesn't make the oils equal. I was changing the oil in the F11 every 6k miles but still used the Shell ECT C3. You are asking a question that can't be answered by the lay person. It will need laboratory analysis to evaluate performance. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

@Matthew Ashton is absolutely right to say use a brand which gives you confidence.  The motoring press give the same advice.  Others will use what ever brand of LL04 they choose for their own particular reason.  BMW workshops now use Shell oil and not Castrol anymore.  As long as it says LL04 on the bottle then its fine.

 

I change my oil every year and I use Castrol, the last change I used 5W-30 M (LL04) which was recommended to me by Castrol for my car.   Written on my oil filler cap is "BMW recommend Castrol" so that's good enough for me.

 

Given that its such a critical component and its all that keeps your crankshaft from welding itself to the bearings, I'm happy to spend money on a brand I have confidence in and to change it regularly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've used BG244K in previous BMW diesels and it's been beneficial. One of my 530d's smoked alittle after I had put it in for a few miles before clearing up and it self alot smoother so it must have worked (or done something). Alot of interesting forum posts about it all over the internet. I use BG44 in petrols and it's similiar 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, q96169we said:

I'm always using the ECT C3 5W30 as well. For both my F10 and G31 (both have B47 but one is single turbo and the other is twin turbo plus MHT), I change the oil and filter myself half way through the service indicator. So, it's about 9-10k.

Just curious to check whether you have further information about the Triple QX. About five years ago when I still owned a first gen Mazda 6, I usually used the Triple QX 5w-20 oil and found it quite good. For exactly the same weight (5w-20) and manufacturer approval, Castol also had one. At that time, I thought maybe Castol made the oil for Triple QX. Maybe eurocarparts just sources any oils on the market that meet different manufacturers' approval spec and re-bottle them as Triple QX.

Hi. Sorry for off topic question,but interested in g31 with twin turbo? What model is that,well what it marked as? On f10 it would be 525d,what is it on g30? 

Thank you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Yuri84 said:

Hi. Sorry for off topic question,but interested in g31 with twin turbo? What model is that,well what it marked as? On f10 it would be 525d,what is it on g30? 

Thank you.

After Sep 2018 or even later, B37/B47 had the TU1 update. For exactly same output (at least for 520d, 140KW, 190ps, 400NM), they now have twin turbo to improve the WLTP or RDE test performance. You can feel the response is much improved compared to single turbo version which is in my F10.

 

Attached two realoem diagrams for my F10 B47 and G31 B47. Both car are 520d so same output rating. You can see the G31 one has a smaller turbo (T1 in the diagram) built directly to the manifold and big turbo (T2) mounted below the manifold. On the other hand for the F10, there are only one big turbo (T1) mounted below the manifold and on the manifold, there isn't another turbo (No T in the diagram). 

 

If you want the real photo comparison between two cars, I can take some over the weekend.

 

image.png.546b7ba811590fd4276079b48d4adac9.png

image.png.48ff3bdc7543921ad6b4c01ff53308c5.png

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Matthew Ashton said:

 

The same broad specification doesn't make the oils equal. I was changing the oil in the F11 every 6k miles but still used the Shell ECT C3. You are asking a question that can't be answered by the lay person. It will need laboratory analysis to evaluate performance. 

Agree on this. For an outsider, we have no information at all to answer the question as all we have is their marketing words. Oil manufacturer won't let us know the detail of their chemical blend. 

 

Also, about the manufacturer spec, there are usualy two kinds of wording are used by oil manufacturers: Meet BMW LL-04 spec and Approved to BMW LL-04 spec. There are huge difference between them. Approved means the manufacturer actually sent the oil to independent labs or car manufacturers' labs to have it fully analysed/tested/certified, which is (in my mind) a very expensive process. On the other hand, meet the spec means the oil manufacturer just blend the chemical to the spec released by car manufacturers. Oil manufacturer may have tested them internally or independently but the oil itself is not actually certified/acknowledged/approved by the car manufacturers.

 

On top of all of these, even for exactly same oil from same manufacturer, the price per L of buying 5L and 50,000L will be very different. So, if you are sure you use 5L for oil change and can sell the remaining 49,995L, then why not buy 50,000L directly from those top manufacturer? I think it will be much cheaper than buying 5L from lesser brand. That's what I think the eurocarparts is doing on the Triple QX brand. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, q96169we said:

After Sep 2018 or even later, B37/B47 had the TU1 update. For exactly same output (at least for 520d, 140KW, 190ps, 400NM), they now have twin turbo to improve the WLTP or RDE test performance. You can feel the response is much improved compared to single turbo version which is in my F10.

 

Attached two realoem diagrams for my F10 B47 and G31 B47. Both car are 520d so same output rating. You can see the G31 one has a smaller turbo (T1 in the diagram) built directly to the manifold and big turbo (T2) mounted below the manifold. On the other hand for the F10, there are only one big turbo (T1) mounted below the manifold and on the manifold, there isn't another turbo (No T in the diagram). 

 

If you want the real photo comparison between two cars, I can take some over the weekend.

 

image.png.546b7ba811590fd4276079b48d4adac9.png

image.png.48ff3bdc7543921ad6b4c01ff53308c5.png

 

Hi. Thank you. You live you learn. I have 2019 g30 2.0d on my drive at the moment will go and pop the bonnet and have a look around.

Thanks again matey.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 21/01/2021 at 13:54, Flat Cap said:
  On 21/01/2021 at 11:52, Matthew Ashton said:

I wouldn't do an engine oil flush - too late now, done as part of the service but i'll ask them to omit it next time.

 

Personally I will always use the best oil I can get - if the spec is LL04, what makes one oil better than another?

 

oil is one of the 2 most important fluids keeping the engine in good order - what's the other fluid?  The coolant?

 

Don't forget your oil also acts as coolant too - it is in direct contact with all of the engine and helps to transfer heat away from the components. For me it's another reason why i would use the more expensive oils, even when changing at shorter mileage intervals. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

....and your oil cooler is then cooled by coolant, well it is on mine anyway. 
 

4044E6CA-FBD1-456F-805B-7FDDA6CF27A7.jpg

 

Oil is cooled in the aluminium housing infront of where I’m tightening the oil filter cap.  The oil connections are the two hoses in bottom left corner and coolant goes in via the block on the other side. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, 535i Andrew said:

....and your oil cooler is then cooled by coolant, well it is on mine anyway. 
 

4044E6CA-FBD1-456F-805B-7FDDA6CF27A7.jpg

 

Oil is cooled in the aluminium housing infront of where I’m tightening the oil filter cap.  The oil connections are the two hoses in bottom left corner and coolant goes in via the block on the other side. 

 

heat exchanger. Same as what BMW use on their Motorbikes too. 

 

I hope they're made better as on some designs the gasket/seals fail and you end up with cross contamination. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Yuri84 said:

Hi. Thank you. You live you learn. I have 2019 g30 2.0d on my drive at the moment will go and pop the bonnet and have a look around.

Thanks again matey.

2019 should have twin turbo but not 100% sure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 21/01/2021 at 16:59, Matthew Ashton said:

 

Triple QX - 'm probably mistaken but I read this was produced by Shell. 

 

 

You did a google search, a single person said they thought it was made by Shell, that has been repeated dozens of time, and now the whole internet takes that as the gospel truth. I think it is unlikely.

 

You will get dozens of opinions on oil. While I'd be totally happy to use Triple QX on an 20 year old E39 say, for a newer car like the F10/F11 I'd be inclined to go for a big brand name for peace of mind. Will that big brand name actually be any better ? Who knows.

Edited by Tuvoc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×