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Flat Cap

Major Service query

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Our 2012 Audi a4 tdi has had Triple QX last 2 services no issues with it as my wife's mileage is around 3k a year.

Edited by marko530d

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32 minutes ago, marko530d said:

Our 2012 Audi a4 tdi has had Triple QX last 2 services no issues with it as my wife's mileage is around 3k a year.

 

No surprise there,  even if it is isn't as good as the brand name stuff you wouldn't know about it until your engine has done 100k+ miles at least.  So in other words, why not use it ! 

Where I think lower cost oil like this makes sense is that if you're on a budget it enables you to change it more frequently than if you use expensive premium stuff.  And to me that is a better way to go.

 

 

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11 hours ago, Tuvoc said:

 

You did a google search, a single person said they thought it was made by Shell, that has been repeated dozens of time, and now the whole internet takes that as the gospel truth. I think it is unlikely.

 

You will get dozens of opinions on oil. While I'd be totally happy to use Triple QX on an 20 year old E39 say, for a newer car like the F10/F11 I'd be inclined to go for a big brand name for peace of mind. Will that big brand name actually be any better ? Who knows.


Exactly, a Google search and then validating with more than one reference to Shell. As has been said before, getting specifications or manufacturers of oil from the Internet or any other source is nigh on impossible to get a verified statement. Even BMW’s own brand stuff there is speculation rather than validated fact as to who makes it. So, you have to make a best educated guess which is why whether the car is 3 years or 15 years I’ll be using the ‘best’ oils according to my personal research and opinion.

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If shell produce the oil or not its not going to be as good as there premium more expensive brand oils.

 

For the Audi it will do just fine for such low mileage per year. 

 

For the bmw it will get a oil and filter at bmw ( think its £129 ) and do filters etc myself.

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I'm not convinced that Castrol is the best oil just because that's what is says on the filler cap.

Presumably BMW had a contract with Castrol at some point and endorsing Castrol was to their mutual benefit, not necessarily the driver's benefit.

 

Also not convinced that 'you get what you pay for' or using 'premium' oils for peace of mind. 

Totally agree with whoever said previously that we should base judgement on testing, so here we go -

 

Amazon Basics - £9.52  for a 1 litre bottle versus Liqui Moly Top Tec 4200 - £17.95 for a 1 litre bottle.

Both oils are LL04 fully synthetic 5w30

 

Test results start at 4:52 and final conclusion at  9:07. 

 

 

Edited by Flat Cap

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My commentary on anything that is 'generic' like Supermarket fuel is sourced at the lowest cost, which mean you will probably not have the same quality consistency throughout. Re-doing this test in 6 months would give you an idea of the performance level of the oils. 

Cost is a factor in this too, as no doubt the Amazon oil is simply sourced from elsewhere; they don't have their own oil R&D labs, it is simply bought, packaged and sold. Your name brands more than likely have their own R&D and huge investment in facilities to produce the oil, the cost is higher to match with the overheads. 

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I think i have posted this on another thread before but i was having a chat with one of the bmw techies who said castrol was another element that contributed to chain issues and that's why bmw changed to shell.

 

I don't know whether that is true or just an anecdote but I did watch a video from chap called Piotr Tester on youtube who seems to be doing various tests on a piece of metal for wear lubricated by different oils similar to the chap Flat Cap shared.

 

Although I couldn't find it, there was a video that where he tested shell, castrol and genuine bmw oil ( supplied by shell) and castrol. The metal piece lubricated by castrol had the more wear. Shell was 2nd and bmw scored 1st. 

 

I tend to look for value for money and age of the car sometimes dictates which oil i go for too but to give a few example.

 

When i had the mk4 golf some of you might know the 1.9 PD TDI's had chocolate cams and VW recommended to use PD specific oil  and I used Triple QX  as they had PD specific ones and car was fine That was untill i found Quantum. 

 

Tiguan we had used to have Quantum  Oil which supposedly had castrol stuff in it and even the main dealer was using it and it was good value for money.

 

F10 gets the BMW parts  as I have recently bought genuine filter  and 5 litres of 0w30 stuff for £62 for delivered where ECP is selling 5l of Shell 5w30 and a bosch filter for £50. The  extra £12 gives me the piece of mind and an invoice that proves car had genuine parts all of its life. 

 

However whichever the oil i use I always change my oil every 10k. 

 

 

Edited by F10er

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Not sure about the oil contributing to chain issue. But, I've read somewhere that one of the reasons BMW switched from Castol to Shell is due to the oil evaporation rate and cleaness which leads to the carbon deposition in the intake system. The shell now using the Shell PurePlus Technology to produce the base oil. The Shell PurePlus Technology basically liquefies natural gas to become base oil (obviously, it won't be this simple but this is what Shell's marketing material says). The result is the base oil is more clean and the evaporation rate is lower. Combining both, it gives better performance in terms of the carbon deposit in the intake system (intake manifold, back of intake valve etc.) due to the PCV, which is an issue on the direct injection engine as no fuel (detergent) can wash the back of intake valve. This also contributes to why some other manufacturers start to use both direct injection and port injection (e.g 3rd gen EA888) whereas BMW still stick with direct injection only for the petrol engine.

 

Despite this, diesel engine is always direct injection so why not made the switch earlier if this is the reason for switching. 

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28 minutes ago, q96169we said:

Despite this, diesel engine is always direct injection so why not made the switch earlier if this is the reason for switching. 

 

The petrols only more recently moved to direct injection rather than port injection so ties in with that change.  It does concern me that I've not got fuel cleaning the backs of my inlet valves now so having the best oil in the engine is of even more importance to limit any build up on the valves.

 

Still say use any oil provided its LL04 and is changed yearly or 10,000 miles max to keep the internals as healthy as possible.

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22 hours ago, F10er said:

F10 gets the BMW parts  as I have recently bought genuine filter  and 5 litres of 0w30 stuff for £62 for delivered

 

 

Where are you getting the BMW oil from please?

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On 1/24/2021 at 7:42 PM, F10er said:

I don't know whether that is true or just an anecdote but I did watch a video from chap called Piotr Tester on youtube who seems to be doing various tests on a piece of metal for wear lubricated by different oils similar to the chap Flat Cap shared.

 

Although I couldn't find it, there was a video that where he tested shell, castrol and genuine bmw oil ( supplied by shell) and castrol. The metal piece lubricated by castrol had the more wear. Shell was 2nd and bmw scored 1st. 

 

Here's Piotr Tester's full set of results.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1H5RJ5YnLaXgGi8Cd1I7n4RRf91O9jkXpXf7knM0q-bg/edit#gid=0

0 - 0.05 = Amazing protection

0.06 - 0.09 = very good

0.10 - 0.15 = good

<0.16 = weak

0.38 = test result with no lubrication

 

BMW 0w30 LL04 scores 0.05

BMW 5w30 LL04 scored 0.01

Edited by Flat Cap

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Good news exactly what I put in last "Interim" oil service at 10k: BMW 5w30 LL04 scored 0.01

I bought 7litres from Ebay for £62, seems its gone up probably Brexit....

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/7-Litro-Originale-BMW-Olio-Motore-Twinpower-Turbo-5W-30-5W30-Longlife-04-LL-04/164514348538?hash=item264dd1bdfa:g:7iMAAOSwEH1c7UPG

 

 

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13 hours ago, Flat Cap said:

 

From BMW, doh!

I get them from Harry FairBairn Giffnock, they are very helpfull and never had an issue with my order. I believe we have a few people on here ordering from them other than my self.  Not all dealers seems to be doing them at this price. On my previous oil change my local dealer wanted £121 for the same parts over the counter. Other dealer who are local to my work and different franchise wanted about £100 although on some of the other parts they are reasonable. However i never had anyone beat price of the Giffnock lot. 

Edited by F10er

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11 hours ago, Flat Cap said:

 

Here's Piotr Tester's full set of results.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1H5RJ5YnLaXgGi8Cd1I7n4RRf91O9jkXpXf7knM0q-bg/edit#gid=0

0 - 0.05 = Amazing protection

0.06 - 0.09 = very good

0.10 - 0.15 = good

<0.16 = weak

0.38 = test result with no lubrication

 

BMW 0w30 LL04 scores 0.05

BMW 5w30 LL04 scored 0.01

Interesting, I always thought 0w30 was the one, maybe look at getting 5w30 next time round.

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15 hours ago, Flat Cap said:

 

Where are you getting the BMW oil from please?

 

1 hour ago, F10er said:

I get them from Harry FairBairn 

 

Yup, they are on ebay. 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-BMW-Engine-Oil-0W30-Fully-synthetic-LL04-12-X-1-Litre-Containers/254425832504

 

Next time I might go with this and split it with my dad for his G01.  That said if you can go in and see them I believe they will do a deal on bulk buying.  I got my 5W-30M LL04 from Amazon.

 

1 hour ago, F10er said:

they are very helpfull and never had an issue with my order. 

 

+1 They are my local friendly dealer.  I've been going there for 13 years now, I've got a great relationship with the parts guys, when it comes to getting big stuff like brake discs and pads etc.  Which reminds me, I could use more of the screenwash.

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1 hour ago, Flat Cap said:

That's 0w30 oil.

I think 5w30 is the recommended viscosity for my engine.

Not sure if it makes any difference.

BMW will use 0w30 if they were to service your car but it will take 5w30 quite happily and is on the BMW recommended oils list. 

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As long as it is LL04 you can use it and BMW have themselves filled my sumps over the years with 0W-30, 0W-40, 5W-30 and 5W-40.  Makes very little difference in the UK on our types of car what it exactly the grade is.

 

Most important thing to look for on the oil bottle is LL04, and that is meets API SN and ACEA C3 for F10/11 engines.

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