Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Do any members have any familiarity with BMW wiring? I am looking to retrofit front fog lamps to my F07N (option 5A1), I've no intention of paying £200 per hour for the privilege of main dealer installation! . I have the wiring diagram and note the requirement to use 1.5mm2 cable. The specification calls for 3 colours, yellow/red, yellow brown and brown.  I've searched online and can only source this wire, to automotive standards in yellow/red and brown. It does not appear to be available in yellow/brown.  I can obviously use another colour, but this won't be 'authentic'. However, I can get the correct wiring colours in 1mm2.  This is where I am curious. 1mm2 wire can carry 16.5A. 1.5mm2 wire can carry 21 A. Front fog lamps, are rated for 55w, so for a 12V supply, that equates to no more than 4.6A.  So 1mm2 can support nearly 4 times the required current and 1.5mm2 can support nearly 5 times the current. There are no other lamps or devices on this circuit. Two cables emanate from the FRM module  and just go to the front fog lamps, so don't serve anything else? (see wiring diagrams). Any ideas? Anyone know where I can get yellow/brown 1.5mm2 automative wire (without a special order - manufacturers want 10km(!) minimum order and I think I need less than 10m). I can use 1mm2. I can't see this wiring available from BMW online shop, Realoem/BMW lists wiring but doesn't detail colour options or cable lengths. 

Screenshot_20210114_184823.jpg

Screenshot_20210114_184852.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On this site they rate 1mm square cable at 8.75 Amps. Power = Volts x Current, so nominally 12 * 8.75 = 105W. Alternatively, using V=RI, R=12/8.75 = 1.37 Ohms. Power (in Watts) is R*I^2 so 1.37*(8.75^2) = 104W.

Either way, still ample for 55W.

Note you will need coding to enable this in the end, coding 5A1 to the VO, then I think only to the FRM. Note 5A1 is listed as LED foglights (a £175 option when new). Not sure what year your car is, or if you have the lights already.

Cabling is indeed as simple as from the FRM to the lights, using the Z10*2B earth points, installing the correct light switch, and coding.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the feedback.  Automative grade thin wall 1mm2 cable is rated for 16.5A. P/V=I, hence 55/12=4.6A.  The cable run from FRM to lamp will be less than 5-7m, so resistance and volt drop aren't an issue for the cable. Using 1mm2 cable means a smaller diameter hole in the bulkhead. Cable ratings degrade with temperature and grouping, but the wiring route isn't going to hug the hot parts. Nice to see a reference to the Z10*2B earth point, I haven't found a diagram for its location yet. Do you know, where this earthing location is? 

 

This project is still in the early stages of planning. With the poor winter weather and no garage, I'm not going to go rummaging around the car at the moment. I may have the code wrong, I am not planning on LED lights, going with zenons, so will check. I would prefer LEDs, but haven't seen this option in the wiring diagram. Most LEDs need a driver module. The research to date hasn't indicated LED fog lamp availability for Mbumpers, or any LED driver module, so not going to pursue this at the moment. The only LEDs on my 2016 F07N are the indicators, so I doubt the LED driver module for these are designed for or capable of driving fog lamps.  I might consider retro fit lamps with built in drivers, if the exist, but not worried at the moment. The rest of the lights on the front are Xenons. 

 

This is the parts list:

 

*51118050055 & 56 - M bumper fog light grilles - ordered. 

*61319192744 - console switch for fog lamps with self levelling lights-ordered

*61132360041 x 2 - plugs and pins from wiring loom to fog lamps-will order from BMW

*044361 & 62 Valeo (OEM) fog lamps for Msport bumpers

*4 No fixing screws (for fog lamps to built in brackets on M bumper) 

*X149*2B - 6 pole plug/socket assembly - this provides local isolation between FRM and fog lamps (allows bumper to be removed easily). Don't have this part number yet. I don't need 6 pole, as there are only 4 wires, but trying to keep it authentic.

*Pins to terminate wires in X149*2B - 4No - part number not resolved yet

*Spades terminals(?) for connection to ground Z10*2b - part number not resolved yet.

*bulkhead grommet - no idea for part number, but want something suitable for 5mm dia hole planning to drill

*assorted cable ties

*TESA wrap/cable sleeving

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, the brochure is a little confusing, in that the only optional foglights for the F07 were 5A1 LED foglights, however these were shown as N/A on the M Sports. Drilling into RealOEM it does indeed show a M Sport foglight, part 63177839865 and 63177839866, with 55W (non-LED) bulbs. So that was confusion on my part. So you're not retrofitting 5A1 per se.

Looking at my own F11's build sheet, although I have front foglights, they are not listed as an option as they were standard. I will be interested to see what happens when you retrofit yours, they may well work straight away without coding. Reading into it a little more, I believe that they will indeed just power up, no coding required.

Some other tips:

Connector pins to connect to the FRM (Connector A58*3B Pin 37 and A58*2B Pin 3) are part 61138364834.

Connector pins to terminate the wires in X149*2B are 61138364567 (Male) and 12521433217 (Female).

 

I believe user @apples12 may well have successfully completed this retrofit a couple of years back (albeit on his F10).

Edited by BFleming

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks again for the prompt response. I've seen a Retrofit for fog lamps somewhere, but can't remember which site. I do think that the option needs to be coded though - I'll worry about that when I get there. I've done some more research on the wiring front and the 1.5mm2 cable preference may be due to the volt drop. I was assuming the distance from the FRM to the lamps and not the battery. The cables from the FRM to the X149 connector will be the same length, but since this connector notionally sits just under the NSF headlamp, direct wiring to each fog lamp will be different distances, e.g. NS fog lamp about 25cm, OS fog lamp about 1.5m. If volt drop is an issue, if I don't use the same length of cable to both lamps (e.g. worst case length for both), I could end up with one lamp brighter than the other.

 

Thanks for the pin references.  The only issues now are where to get 1.5mm2 yellow/brown wiring and a suitable grommet. I would prefer to use the existing penetration/grommet, but no one seems to have done this suggesting it isn't feasible. I've seen a grommet on the BMW parts list (part 7), that looks like a plate with an angled tube for the wires. This would be great because it would reduce any capillary action, but it doesn't give a full part number. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm pretty sure I've bought from these guys previously: https://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/category/10

They do 1mm^2 and 2mm^2, so maybe go for 2mm^2.

 

On the coding, it's a strange one. 5A1 is definitely LED fogs, but standard fogs definitely don't have a code on the 5 series GT. Reading up on other people's retrofits, the foglights work out of the box, no coding required. I know optional foglights generally carry code 520 on BMWs, I just can't find any reference to it for the 5/5GT/7. Remember, the 5GT is more closely aligned to the 7 F01 than the 5 F10.

 

Edited by BFleming

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I swapped my front SE bumper for a M-sport and disabled the fog-lights in the VO, changed one setting from active to de-active and didn't have to hard code any of the modules. I would assume this would just be reverse for yourself. Also i believe that ground is one inside the front wheel arches against the chassis rail. pretty sure there is one either side and thats where the horn and other front electronics are grounded on mine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Wozza345 said:

I swapped my front SE bumper for a M-sport and disabled the fog-lights in the VO, changed one setting from active to de-active and didn't have to hard code any of the modules. I would assume this would just be reverse for yourself. Also i believe that ground is one inside the front wheel arches against the chassis rail. pretty sure there is one either side and thats where the horn and other front electronics are grounded on mine.

Ah fair enough. I assume a line to change from Aktiv to Nicht Aktiv in the FRM module to prevent the system telling you you have 2 blown bulbs in the foglights.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the comments.  On the wiring front, yellow/brown isn't an option in 1.5mm2 or 2mm2, only 1mm2.  I will plan to use the 1.5mm2 wiring and worst case add some yellow electrical tape stripes at key locations to brown wiring to indicate yellow/brown.  This should only be necessary at fog lamps, X149 connector, bulkhead and FRM. Once I have all the parts and install them, I can see about the coding. Gt 550s, I see advertised have M bumpers and fog lamps, the only difference on the basic cars here are the engines, N55 or N63. I doubt BMW would have different software/hardware for core design not related to the engines. Just need to sort out the X149*2B plug and socket connector and a bulkhead grommet.  No actual work is likely to be done for a couple of months, but I like to get prepared in advance ( I retro fitted the 3AG option myself and paid a coder to add it to the system). I have software and cable plus a Carly OBD with 12 month support, so give this try once its all fitted.  I am not keen on drilling the bulkhead for the wiring, but will cross that bridge when I come to it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's an exceptionally easy retrofit

 

I decided to just use yellow and brown wiring throughout, all taped with the appropriate loom.tape and along factory harnesses, I didn't split any - just zip tied. It does the job!

 

The hardest part was getting the fog wiring from one side of the bumper to the other as I was loathe to take off the bumper.

 

Went through the wiring grommet in the drivers footwell I think, just made a small snip and pushed the wire through with a coat hanger. Sealed up with some black silicone sealant inside and out. Left to cure for a day before I tackled the inside.

If I remember right it was ground to ground and the other 2 wires to the relevant frm pins.

 

Changed the light switch for one with front fog button, vo code frm with 3ag and job done. 

 

One of the easiest retrofits, second only to the active tpms retrofit I did. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/15/2021 at 11:27 AM, BFleming said:

I'm pretty sure I've bought from these guys previously: https://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/category/10

They do 1mm^2 and 2mm^2, so maybe go for 2mm^2.

 

On the coding, it's a strange one. 5A1 is definitely LED fogs, but standard fogs definitely don't have a code on the 5 series GT. Reading up on other people's retrofits, the fog lights work out of the box, no coding required. I know optional foglights generally carry code 520 on BMWs, I just can't find any reference to it for the 5/5GT/7. Remember, the 5GT is more closely aligned to the 7 F01 than the 5 F10.

 

Hopefully, no coding required.  On the console switch with fog  lamps, it has the same 3 pins as the existing switch without front fog lamps, suggesting that  it is switched internally and not software driven.  Time will tell!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, apples12 said:

It's an exceptionally easy retrofit

 

I decided to just use yellow and brown wiring throughout, all taped with the appropriate loom.tape and along factory harnesses, I didn't split any - just zip tied. It does the job!

 

The hardest part was getting the fog wiring from one side of the bumper to the other as I was loathe to take off the bumper.

 

Went through the wiring grommet in the drivers footwell I think, just made a small snip and pushed the wire through with a coat hanger. Sealed up with some black silicone sealant inside and out. Left to cure for a day before I tackled the inside.

If I remember right it was ground to ground and the other 2 wires to the relevant frm pins.

 

Changed the light switch for one with front fog button, vo code frm with 3ag and job done. 

 

One of the easiest retrofits, second only to the active tpms retrofit I did. 

 

 

Thanks.  Curious that you put option code 3AG in the FRM;  option code 3AG is for a reversing camera.  I retrofitted this last year, so 3AG is already programmed into the car.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, KOPFJAEGER said:

Thanks.  Curious that you put option code 3AG in the FRM;  option code 3AG is for a reversing camera.  I retrofitted this last year, so 3AG is already programmed into the car.

Whatever the vo.code was for fogs, I can't recall

 

I also did the 3ag retrofit with genuine bits off eBay and a custom/DIY harness.

 

If you ever retrofit anything with canbus - get the repair wire from VW, it's a fraction of the price..I think it was 7quid for 5metres opposed to BMW's 30smthng 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/15/2021 at 3:38 PM, KOPFJAEGER said:

Thanks for the comments.  On the wiring front, yellow/brown isn't an option in 1.5mm2 or 2mm2, only 1mm2.  I will plan to use the 1.5mm2 wiring and worst case add some yellow electrical tape stripes at key locations to brown wiring to indicate yellow/brown.  This should only be necessary at fog lamps, X149 connector, bulkhead and FRM. Once I have all the parts and install them, I can see about the coding. Gt 550s, I see advertised have M bumpers and fog lamps, the only difference on the basic cars here are the engines, N55 or N63. I doubt BMW would have different software/hardware for core design not related to the engines. Just need to sort out the X149*2B plug and socket connector and a bulkhead grommet.  No actual work is likely to be done for a couple of months, but I like to get prepared in advance ( I retro fitted the 3AG option myself and paid a coder to add it to the system). I have software and cable plus a Carly OBD with 12 month support, so give this try once its all fitted.  I am not keen on drilling the bulkhead for the wiring, but will cross that bridge when I come to it. 

An update on the tracer wiring.  No joy with 1.5mm2 thin wall in the desired colours.  However, in the spirit of trying to be authentic, I have two solutions.

 

The first is to use tri-rated cabling instead of thin-wall. Tri-rated cabling matches /exceeds the thin wall performance, the only notional difference being an increase in overall diameter compared to thin wall, 3.2mm dia vs 2.3mm. For this application, the increase in diameter isn't an issue. The problem with this option is that both colour combinations are bespoke and require a minimum order of 100m.  Total outlay for this would be £80+postage.  This is a touch extravagant to spend £80+ for 20m or less of wiring, with 180m left to sit on a shelf!  The supplier of this cabling is CSE cabling/distributors.

 

The alternative, cheapskate solution is to use 1.5mm2 yellow tracer wire and add red or brown electrical type to create a spiral stripe as opposed to a parallel stripe.  It maintains the color combination, and is the closest to authentic I can find at the moment.  The only alternative to new wiring is to use existing, salvaged wiring loom from a Breaker from the X149*2B connector to the fog lamps. I doubt the wiring from the FRM to the X149*2B would be salvageable.  There are very few breaking 5GTs with fog lamps for me to go this route, presently, but no rush!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, KOPFJAEGER said:

An update on the tracer wiring.  No joy with 1.5mm2 thin wall in the desired colours.  However, in the spirit of trying to be authentic, I have two solutions.

 

The first is to use tri-rated cabling instead of thin-wall. Tri-rated cabling matches /exceeds the thin wall performance, the only notional difference being an increase in overall diameter compared to thin wall, 3.2mm dia vs 2.3mm. For this application, the increase in diameter isn't an issue. The problem with this option is that both colour combinations are bespoke and require a minimum order of 100m.  Total outlay for this would be £80+postage.  This is a touch extravagant to spend £80+ for 20m or less of wiring, with 180m left to sit on a shelf!  The supplier of this cabling is CSE cabling/distributors.

 

The alternative, cheapskate solution is to use 1.5mm2 yellow tracer wire and add red or brown electrical type to create a spiral stripe as opposed to a parallel stripe.  It maintains the color combination, and is the closest to authentic I can find at the moment.  The only alternative to new wiring is to use existing, salvaged wiring loom from a Breaker from the X149*2B connector to the fog lamps. I doubt the wiring from the FRM to the X149*2B would be salvageable.  There are very few breaking 5GTs with fog lamps for me to go this route, presently, but no rush!

You can get brown/yellow wire from eBay

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/153830195978

 

Pennies.

 

Use original BMW housings and terminals, relatively inexpensive.

 

Buy Tesa tape off Amazon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the link for the wiring. I now have all the parts I need except the wiring and 3 connectors. Sources for these are known except for the X149*2B connector. From realoem, etc. This is a six pole connector,  2 rows of 3 connectors, part number ending in 7505225. I am struggling to source this socket and matching plug at the moment. As only 4 cables need terminating, it doesn't need to be a 6 pole connector. So could use a 4 pole plug and socket instead. The weather is starting to improve, so might be able to move this project forward.

 

Just found the socket online from Scheidmann, in Denmark of all places...£2.72 ex VAT  (£16.74 delivered to UK). Just need the matching socket. Hopefully Scheidmann can assist......

Edited by KOPFJAEGER
Update

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×