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OEM Springs for 530i SE

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On 05/02/2021 at 17:52, Busterbvi said:

 

I've got full SE suspension on my sport saloon including SE ARB's, I needed another inch of height to clear a hump on my drive that was damaging the underside and I hated the horrible harsh ride of the sport suspension, couldn't wait to get it all off.

The ride is more comfortable now but the constant thump thump thump noise from the tyres on our shit local B roads gets on my nerves. The suspension is in perfect condition but there is little absorption, the slightest bump will lift the car rather than absorb

it. I've even gone as far as fitting Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 5 with SCT (Sound Comfort Technology) in 225/55 flavour on 17 in style 66. These are marketed as "Comfort" tyres, very disappointed in them, no improvement in road noise in the car

and the Avon ZV7 I had on were far better for noise and comfort. The harshness spoils my enjoyment of the car so unless I can improve it, I'm seriously considering replacing the car for a Jaguar XJ8 for a true magic carpet ride. Im looking into having

some coilovers custom built with super soft internal valving and springs.

 

 

I think what you're trying to achieve, you'll never get with the E39. 

 

The SE IMO is a soft enough ride, even on terrible B roads. So trying to get softer than that is always going to be an uphill battle... 

 

And IMO it'll ruin what the E39 is all about

Edited by d_a_n1979

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I’m just after putting the 530i back to stock, I agree with Dan that the standard SE setup is plenty comfy. The car rides nicely on the lowered setup but looks far too “street” for my taste.

 

The XJ8 is likely more of a magic carpet ride but then they’re completely different cars. What about an E38 with hydraulic suspension instead? That’s closer to an XJ8.

 

@Busterbvi pm sent

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On 05/02/2021 at 19:13, d_a_n1979 said:

 

I think what you're trying to achieve, you'll never get with the E39. 

 

The SE IMO is a soft enough ride, even on terrible B roads. So trying to get softer than that is always going to be an uphill battle... 

 

And IMO it'll ruin what the E39 is all about

 

Hi Dan, It's not necessarily a softer ride I am after, it's the damping and shock absorption on shit roads, I feel and hear the slightest bump at low speeds, the car is spot on mechanically, just passed an MOT with no advisories, I'm an ex RR/Bentley & Ferrari Technician

and a very enthusiastic, OCD owner, I keep the car 100%, no expense spared. On motorways and good carriageways the car is a dream to drive, smooth, quiet, just lovely but any other roads it's horrible, getting tired of it. been researching solutions for some time now

and it seems the whole BMW range are known for poor damping at low speeds, even more so now with big wheels and stupid tyres. Currently a problem with most modern cars that followed this wheel / tyre trend. Im my old Ford Rallying days we would regularly open up

a strut during pre event prep and fit harder or softer valves with different grades of oil to suit forest or tarmac events, those days are long gone, BMW struts are sealed for life so that option is out. I think my problem is that I have been spoiled, having done my apprenticeship

on Jaguar I have fond memories of the true magic carpet ride of the early XJ6 and XJ12 and later enjoying 8 yrs with RR/Bentley and the quality ride they offer, my late father had a early Lexus 400 LS, another dream car to drive for truly silent comfort.  For me my E39 ticks

every box for what I want out of a car except one, the harsh damping, I was sure I could solve the problem with the right combination of suspension, wheels & tyres but so far it has defeated me. Custom built super soft coilovers is the only option left it seems, or buy a Jag !

 

 

 

 

Edited by Busterbvi

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As blunt as it sounds; maybe the E39 isn't the right car for you then...

 

You must be really sensitive to the damping as in my Sport touring, with much firmer shocks than the saloon due to the rear bags; absorbs bumps on the really bad country lanes that surround me very well indeed; in fact I'd say they take them very well

 

Obviously a very harsh edge pot hole is always going to jar the car; but never to a point where I think I need to start looking to fit softer suspension...

 

If I were to go down that route; I'd look for a proper waft bus like an XJ or similar...

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You're probably right but apart from the harsh damping I adore the car and loathe to part with it especially as it such a nice example with only 82k on it. I researched quiet tyres for a while and I bought the comfort Goodyear's on recommendations, big mistake and I learned that it is all very subjective, what a quiet tyre is to some is not even close to others, same with comfort suspension, I'm fortunate to have experienced cars with a true magic carpet ride so I am guilty of being to critical and perhaps too fussy. When I hear owners commenting on how comfortable the E39 is I can't help wondering what other high end comfort cars they have had quality time driving.

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Busterbvi said:

You're probably right but apart from the harsh damping I adore the car and loathe to part with it especially as it such a nice example with only 82k on it. I researched quiet tyres for a while and I bought the comfort Goodyear's on recommendations, big mistake and I learned that it is all very subjective, what a quiet tyre is to some is not even close to others, same with comfort suspension, I'm fortunate to have experienced cars with a true magic carpet ride so I am guilty of being to critical and perhaps too fussy. When I hear owners commenting on how comfortable the E39 is I can't help wondering what other high end comfort cars they have had quality time driving.

 

 

 

Well as you know I've had a few 7 series BMWs and they've been waft busses compared to my E39s; one E38 on BC coilovers, set more comfy than firm and that car rode superbly; my E65 was on 20" alloys and rubber-band tyres :lol: It still drove superbly and was very comfy indeed

 

Both previous E39s were on D2 coilovers and again, zero issues with comfort...

 

It's all down to the individuals perspective obviously

 

All in the E39 is a very stiff car in itself; so that maybe where you've fallen foul; it's not the RR comfy car; it's a 4 door saloon etc; certainly not a waft bus... 

 

Re tyres; fully agree. Some of the comfiest tyres I've ran myself are the Nexen N'Fera SU1s; they have a softer, more compliant sidewall and they suited my E39s on coilovers very well, as well as being a good tyre IMO

 

I may go for them again when I refurb the other set of 66s I've got, but undecided yet as they may be a touch too soft in 17" size

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On 07/02/2021 at 15:12, d_a_n1979 said:

 

Well as you know I've had a few 7 series BMWs and they've been waft busses compared to my E39s; one E38 on BC coilovers, set more comfy than firm and that car rode superbly; my E65 was on 20" alloys and rubber-band tyres :lol: It still drove superbly and was very comfy indeed

 

Both previous E39s were on D2 coilovers and again, zero issues with comfort...

 

It's all down to the individuals perspective obviously

 

All in the E39 is a very stiff car in itself; so that maybe where you've fallen foul; it's not the RR comfy car; it's a 4 door saloon etc; certainly not a waft bus... 

 

Re tyres; fully agree. Some of the comfiest tyres I've ran myself are the Nexen N'Fera SU1s; they have a softer, more compliant sidewall and they suited my E39s on coilovers very well, as well as being a good tyre IMO

 

I may go for them again when I refurb the other set of 66s I've got, but undecided yet as they may be a touch too soft in 17" size

 

Dan, can you tell me more about the Nexen N'Fera SU1's ?  I posted on the E39 FB page looking for recommendations for good soft comfort tyres, had a good response and the Nexens came up again, one guy on his third set of 235/45/17.

Another chap on a similar quest to me suggested one size wider to give a balloon effect to the sidewall creating a cushion, so if your running 235 go for 245 for comfort, never thought of that but makes sense. How do you find the SU1's at

low speeds on crap B roads, are they thumpy at all ? How about road noise in the car ?  I really dont care about handling, wear, grip or cost, it's all about the comfort

 

Another unknown brand was recommended for comfort, Three-A tyres, never heard of them but by all accounts they are a very decent budget tyre, the guy stated that the comfort was like nothing else he had experienced ! So I will take a closer

look at those, have you come across them ?

 

I will post again on FB looking for feedback on the SU1's and see what comes in.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Busterbvi said:

 

Dan, can you tell me more about the Nexen N'Fera SU1's ?  I posted on the E39 FB page looking for recommendations for good soft comfort tyres, had a good response and the Nexens came up again, one guy on his third set of 235/45/17.

Another chap on a similar quest to me suggested one size wider to give a balloon effect to the sidewall creating a cushion, so if your running 235 go for 245 for comfort, never thought of that but makes sense. How do you find the SU1's at

low speeds on crap B roads, are they thumpy at all ? How about road noise in the car ?  I really dont care about handling, wear, grip or cost, it's all about the comfort

 

Another unknown brand was recommended for comfort, Three-A tyres, never heard of them but by all accounts they are a very decent budget tyre, the guy stated that the comfort was like nothing else he had experienced ! So I will take a closer

look at those, have you come across them ?

 

I will post again on FB looking for feedback on the SU1's and see what comes in.

 

 

 

I found them to be very good pal. 

 

I don't drive like a dick, but I do push my cars when I'm confident that it's safe to do and the roads are clear enough etc... 

 

Had them in 17,18 and 20" sizes and never had any issues. A great ride, no daft road noise, good wet & dry grip and a more compliant sidewall that aids in comfort. That's why I got them for my E65 in 20" sizes. 

 

The other similar tyre I'd recommend for this would be the Uniroyal Rainsport 3s and 5s

 

I'm considering going onto 245/45/17s on the Style 66s I'm getting refurbed for summer tyres, considering the Goodyear F1s though, for a change. Not prepared to pay higher for tyres as for my driving and style, it'd be daft too. Will be lucky to do 3k this year! 

 

I still may stick with OEM 235/45s though too... They still offer good rim protection etc

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Just in case you’re interested I’ve just ordered 4 Michelin PS4 in 235/45/17 for £342 from Black Circles. I never scrimp on tyres. 

Edited by 832ark

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26 minutes ago, 832ark said:

Just in case you’re interested I’ve just ordered 4 Michelin PS4 in 235/45/17 for £342 from Black Circles. I never scrimp on tyres. 

 

Thanks, can you let me know what they are like for comfort and road noise ?

 

 

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10 hours ago, Busterbvi said:

 

Thanks, can you let me know what they are like for comfort and road noise ?

 

 

 

My experience of PS4s is they are superb; super sticky and have fantastic grip in both wet and dry...

 

That is until you wear the outer few mm of sticky rubber and then they go hard and drone, a lot!

 

That's in 17 & 18" sizes and they're not a tyre I'll go to again because of that; that's why I'm probably going to go with the Goodyear F1s for a change unless another tyre crops up that takes my fancy. I'm still a huge fan of Uniroyal RainSport tyres; they offer fantastic grip; very well suited to this country's climate and they have a slightly softer sidewall for a more compliant ride

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Thanks Dan. I have 17 in Goodyear Eagle F1 Assymetric 5 with SCT (Silent Comfort Technology). They have a foam rubber belt inside to absorb noise. They don't ! Very disappointed with them, they are no better than the Avon ZV7's I had on, in fact, they are worse for noise and and a harsh thumpy ride. Expected better having paid £535 for a set. This is why I am looking for good quiet comfort tyres. I don't care about handling, it's all about a smooth ride for me.

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19 minutes ago, Busterbvi said:

Thanks Dan. I have 17 in Goodyear Eagle F1 Assymetric 5 with SCT (Silent Comfort Technology). They have a foam rubber belt inside to absorb noise. They don't ! Very disappointed with them, they are no better than the Avon ZV7's I had on, in fact, they are worse for noise and and a harsh thumpy ride. Expected better having paid £535 for a set. This is why I am looking for good quiet comfort tyres. I don't care about handling, it's all about a smooth ride for me.

 

Deffo don't go for the PS4s then; they'll offer you fantastic grip & handling, but they're not compliant...

 

I'd say the Nexens or Uniroyals will give you most of what you're looking for; just depends whether they do them in the sizes you need/want

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2 minutes ago, 832ark said:

I’ve never used PS4 only PS4S and SuperSports. I’ve never bought tyres based on comfort so that concept’s a bit alien to me lol. 

 

I was the same TBH, until I got my touring

 

With it on all new Sachs sport shocks and Eibach springs; it's very firm and firm tyres make the ride overlay harsh for my personal liking at times; but then again the roads local to me aren't in the best condition and the county B roads are bloody awful at the best of times...

 

But I'm also a believer that just because the tyres top priced, doesn't mean it's the best. I much prefer the likes of the Vredestein Ultrac Vorti tyres over the Michelin PS4s; for me they offer just as good handling, dry/wet grip etc than the PS4s but for a lot less £££

 

Tyres are a very personal choice; same with brakes etc... Everyone has their 'go to's' :) 

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Personally I think the PS4 is pretty cheap in this size, normally on anything sporty I’d run either SuperSports or PS4S as they are such great tyres. The PS4 is a bit of a compromise but I’m unlikely to be hooning anywhere particularly. 

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Interesting thread.

Mine is sitting on its A***, the fronts are fine but the rear is sagging like no end.

 

BMW3.jpg

The other side is fractionally worse.

I have the MtecII option but I think the springs just going by everything I can cross reference are the same as Mtec, it's just thicker ARBs, I think. Most sites like Euros, AutoDoc etc list springs for non mtec and mtec and don't give a MtecII option.

Euros have Sachs springs with current discount at £100 for the pair for the rear and wondering if they will be OK? I'd rather pay the extra £50 for the sachs pair of springs than go for a lesser unknown lesjofors for example.

Once the sills are done, the springs are next on the list. Then summer a proper refurb of the Parallels as I do not like the gangster look.

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1 hour ago, starbuck88 said:

Interesting thread.

Mine is sitting on its A***, the fronts are fine but the rear is sagging like no end.

 

BMW3.jpg

The other side is fractionally worse.

I have the MtecII option but I think the springs just going by everything I can cross reference are the same as Mtec, it's just thicker ARBs, I think. Most sites like Euros, AutoDoc etc list springs for non mtec and mtec and don't give a MtecII option.

Euros have Sachs springs with current discount at £100 for the pair for the rear and wondering if they will be OK? I'd rather pay the extra £50 for the sachs pair of springs than go for a lesser unknown lesjofors for example.

Once the sills are done, the springs are next on the list. Then summer a proper refurb of the Parallels as I do not like the gangster look.

 

They won't be the Mtech spec springs unfortunately; they'll be SE spec Sachs springs

 

For shocks (if you're replacing them, which IMO, if they haven't been already, will be overdue); you want Sachs 556834 for the front shocks and Sachs 170857 (IiRC; hopefully someone will confirm) for the rear shocks for a saloon

 

As for springs; you'll only get Mtech spec springs from BMW unfortunately; that's why most folk go for the Eibach pro-kit springs, which IMO, are a great compromise as you get a touch lower than OEM Mtech, but they're progressive, so compliant when driving normally and they firm up when being pushed :) 

 

I paid c£160 for both front Mtech springs for my touring when I first rebuilt the suspension from Cotswolds BMW; no idea how much the rears are though sorry

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1 hour ago, d_a_n1979 said:

 

They won't be the Mtech spec springs unfortunately; they'll be SE spec Sachs springs

 

For shocks (if you're replacing them, which IMO, if they haven't been already, will be overdue); you want Sachs 556834 for the front shocks and Sachs 170857 (IiRC; hopefully someone will confirm) for the rear shocks for a saloon

 

As for springs; you'll only get Mtech spec springs from BMW unfortunately; that's why most folk go for the Eibach pro-kit springs, which IMO, are a great compromise as you get a touch lower than OEM Mtech, but they're progressive, so compliant when driving normally and they firm up when being pushed :) 

 

I paid c£160 for both front Mtech springs for my touring when I first rebuilt the suspension from Cotswolds BMW; no idea how much the rears are though sorry

 

Thanks Dan,

 

This is euros listing though...

 

coilspringreareuro.png

 

One variant says without M-Tech and the other says With M-Tech...

Autodoc lists with and without too with the respective Non M Tech at 411mm and M Tech at  355/360mm BUT Autodoc only lists the non mtech variant for Sachs. Autodoc have Eibach 355mm springs for £35 each.


EDIT: I suppose the caveat for this is...on real OEM it shows a different part number for the whole shock and spring unit M Tech vs M Tech II

I had a quote from Cotswold BMW for springs only at £115 a side.  I am a chump for wanting to save money but I also want what is 'right' so looks like I'll be buying from BMW.

 

Edited by starbuck88

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1 hour ago, starbuck88 said:

 

Thanks Dan,

 

This is euros listing though...

 

coilspringreareuro.png

 

One variant says without M-Tech and the other says With M-Tech...

Autodoc lists with and without too with the respective Non M Tech at 411mm and M Tech at  355/360mm BUT Autodoc only lists the non mtech variant for Sachs. Autodoc have Eibach 355mm springs for £35 each.


EDIT: I suppose the caveat for this is...on real OEM it shows a different part number for the whole shock and spring unit M Tech vs M Tech II

I had a quote from Cotswold BMW for springs only at £115 a side.  I am a chump for wanting to save money but I also want what is 'right' so looks like I'll be buying from BMW.

 

 

Personally I'd save my money and go for the Eibach pro-kit springs. The 'drop' on them compared to OEM Mtech isn't massive and as said, they ride superbly. You'll have no issues with rubbing etc either

 

But your call; new OEM MTech springs will have the car sitting well; but as said, you need to ensure the shocks are in decent health too

 

In saying this; why do you feel you need to replace the springs? It's usually the shocks failing that has the car sitting 'saggy'... Have they snapped/badly corroded etc?

Edited by d_a_n1979

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Just had my PS4 fitted but only done a few miles locally, nothing remarkable to report so far, ride quality and noise don’t jump out at me as being a problem we’ll see at some higher speeds. Only issue is I don’t normally “do” comfort, with the exception of an e32 many years ago I generally tend to buy pretty firm cars so maybe my opinion is invalid. Best riding cars I think I’ve been in would be parents’ hydropneumatic Citroens in the 80s and 90s.

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1 hour ago, d_a_n1979 said:

 

Personally I'd save my money and go for the Eibach pro-kit springs. The 'drop' on them compared to OEM Mtech isn't massive and as said, they ride superbly. You'll have no issues with rubbing etc either

 

But your call; new OEM MTech springs will have the car sitting well; but as said, you need to ensure the shocks are in decent health too

 

In saying this; why do you feel you need to replace the springs? It's usually the shocks failing that has the car sitting 'saggy'... Have they snapped/badly corroded etc?


I'm not sure if that's a typo but shocks don't support the weight of a car, the springs do. The shock affects the initial hit and then rebound of the spring so that you're not bouncing and boating all over the place, the car 'sits' on the Springs not the shocks.  If you took the springs out of a car and left the shocks it'd be sat on the shock bump stops, if you took the shocks out of a car it would 'appear' normal until you drove/or pushed down on a corner.

Springs loose their elasticity/rigidity over time with constant weight on them so they give that saggy appearance.

Edited by starbuck88

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1 hour ago, starbuck88 said:


I'm not sure if that's a typo but shocks don't support the weight of a car, the springs do. The shock affects the initial hit and then rebound of the spring so that you're not bouncing and boating all over the place, the car 'sits' on the Springs not the shocks.  If you took the springs out of a car and left the shocks it'd be sat on the shock bump stops, if you took the shocks out of a car it would 'appear' normal until you drove/or pushed down on a corner.

Springs loose their elasticity/rigidity over time with constant weight on them so they give that saggy appearance.

 

Yes; get that. But you tend to find that if the shocks have blown/failed, the car sits off, more so if it's just one corner... Understand that springs carry the weight, but a failed shock can highlight sagging in a car too. The shocks are pressurised; so when that's leaked, the resistance to compression has gone.

 

I had this on my first E39 530i; rear suspension had started to fail, sagged lower than normal on the drivers side, shock was leaking and by the time I'd got them removed to fit coilovers; it'd completely failed, Literally no compression at all

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