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Pirelli Cinturato runflats - deformation

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The F11 is in the garage today to sort a vibration that appears at about 70mph. Mechanic suspected it would be wheel balancing but now tells me that all four of my tyres are deforming!!

 

The older two (now on the front) were fitted in August 2018 and have done about 20k miles.  The newer two were fitted in 2019 and have done about 10k. All from Camskill. There's a decent amount of tread left all round.

 

We tend to run a full load pressure (or close to) as we tow a caravan with the car.

 

Has anyone else had this happen? I've not seen it before on a car, not across all wheels. It kind of feels like it's my fault but I can't see why. None of them have ever run flat.

I'll probably replace with runflats as I struggled to tell the difference when we had go-flats. 

 

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1 hour ago, AlfaEuropa said:

The F11 is in the garage today to sort a vibration that appears at about 70mph. Mechanic suspected it would be wheel balancing but now tells me that all four of my tyres are deforming!!

 

The older two (now on the front) were fitted in August 2018 and have done about 20k miles.  The newer two were fitted in 2019 and have done about 10k. All from Camskill. There's a decent amount of tread left all round.

 

We tend to run a full load pressure (or close to) as we tow a caravan with the car.

 

Has anyone else had this happen? I've not seen it before on a car, not across all wheels. It kind of feels like it's my fault but I can't see why. None of them have ever run flat.

I'll probably replace with runflats as I struggled to tell the difference when we had go-flats. 

 

 

Sounds very odd. Did you see this "deformation" yourself? I'd get in touch with Pirelli as this could be a safety issue if all 4 tyres have indeed "deformed" (sorry for the quotes but it doesn't read true in my opinion). 
Running at full-load pressure shouldn't damage the tyres in any way as you will still be lower than the design maximum (stamped on the sidewall).

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This may help you if your tyres are indeed faulty details below of Tyre manufacturers’ warranty periods in 2020, good luck from my personal experience don't let them fob you off if the tyres are faulty.


https://www.oponeo.co.uk/blog/tyre-warranty-comparison-of-manufacturers

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Not sure if this might help...

Has the car been standing idle for some time? i.e more than two weeks, as tyre deformation can happen causing a flat spot. However this should clear up after driving approx >30 miles (especially if your running higher than normal pressures).

 

I'm assuming your mechanic has re-balanced the wheels in which case if you're still experiencing vibration, it could be front suspension components etc

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9 hours ago, Patrick M said:

Not sure if this might help...

Has the car been standing idle for some time? i.e more than two weeks, as tyre deformation can happen causing a flat spot. However this should clear up after driving approx >30 miles (especially if your running higher than normal pressures).

 

I'm assuming your mechanic has re-balanced the wheels in which case if you're still experiencing vibration, it could be front suspension components etc

 

It will take far longer than 2 weeks stationary for a properly inflated tyre to deform - and all 4?. My cars have stood for 2 months quite happily with no detriment to the tyres.

Edited by Matthew Ashton

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15 hours ago, Matthew Ashton said:

 

Sounds very odd. Did you see this "deformation" yourself? I'd get in touch with Pirelli as this could be a safety issue if all 4 tyres have indeed "deformed" (sorry for the quotes but it doesn't read true in my opinion). 
Running at full-load pressure shouldn't damage the tyres in any way as you will still be lower than the design maximum (stamped on the sidewall).

 

No worries with the "" - I'm confused about it myself.

 

I hadn't noticed a thing wrong with the tyres but it was pointed out to me while the car was on the ramps and I took two photos (which, as always, don't it justice). The picture on the right is the rear tyre - you can see the reinforcement showing through in a split/chink in the biggest central groove (I circled one example but it wasn't the only one), the picture on the left is the front - it's much harder to capture the change in shape or spot the cracking.  I would describe the deformation on the tyres I've seen as:

  • front tyre (20k miles, 30 months on the car) - no longer flat across the profile (humped towards the middle) with tyre wear at the hump much greater than elsewhere. Cracking between the treads
  • rear tyre (10k miles,  18 months on the car) - cracking between treads, reinforcement visible

image.thumb.png.10f589a04453b71264b3f9ecfc1d7d3c.pngimage.png.5a0c63ae33a9b34ed6e41d1c036ad372.png

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10 hours ago, Patrick M said:

Not sure if this might help...

Has the car been standing idle for some time? i.e more than two weeks, as tyre deformation can happen causing a flat spot. However this should clear up after driving approx >30 miles (especially if your running higher than normal pressures).

 

I'm assuming your mechanic has re-balanced the wheels in which case if you're still experiencing vibration, it could be front suspension components etc

 

At most, it stood for two weeks, back in March. After that I took it out for a drive because I got a low battery warning when I sat in the car.

I'm not sure they did actually re-balance the wheels - they had a test drive, took the wheels off (usual call while we both remember where the locking wheel nut lives!) and then spotted the damage. I guess there is not much point re-balancing a wheel with a condemned tyre!

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I’d think the chances of all 4 tyres from different batches deforming all at once must be close to nil. Over inflation wouldn’t do it though it would likely cause more wear in the centre of course and I’ve left cars sitting at the airport for a month or 6 weeks without any issue. Tyres can be expected to show a few bits of damage after a year or 2 so I don’t think your photos really show much. I’d get them balanced and see how it goes. Oddly enough I’ve always found that any tyre or suspension issues start with a little shake around 70 so if they balance OK next stop would be a suspension check. Have you hit any potholes hard recently?

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4 minutes ago, Boba said:

I’d think the chances of all 4 tyres from different batches deforming all at once must be close to nil. Over inflation wouldn’t do it though it would likely cause more wear in the centre of course and I’ve left cars sitting at the airport for a month or 6 weeks without any issue. Tyres can be expected to show a few bits of damage after a year or 2 so I don’t think your photos really show much. I’d get them balanced and see how it goes. Oddly enough I’ve always found that any tyre or suspension issues start with a little shake around 70 so if they balance OK next stop would be a suspension check. Have you hit any potholes hard recently?

 

I'd agree on your first point - though it's two batches of tyres.  I'd be happy to write the front two off as they've done more miles than the previous Hankooks did, though it is slightly worrying that they are failing in a dangerous way rather than a progressive one.

 

It is far more than a few bits of damage though. There's no question of keeping them on the car. No potholes and it would be hard to see how that would affect all four tyres.

 

The only other thing I can think of is wheelspin in mud.  The rear pair certainly have been spun, towing off wet grass a couple of times (to the point where it's been necessary to unhtich). It's possible that the front pair also had the same when they were on the back of the car, though I don't recall that.  

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Now you have shown pictures of your tyres that looks very similar to the problem I had with Michelin tyres, and I'm pleased to say Michelin did honour their warranty claim and I received 4 new tyres and just paid for the fitting, the link below relates to my faulty tyres.


https://forum.bmw5.co.uk/topic/142440-michelin-primacy-3-crackingperishing-tyres/?tab=comments#comment-1526004


If you contact the tyre manufacturer they will require the DOT code which is on the tyre wall.


https://www.blackcircles.com/helpcentre/tyres/age-of-a-tyre

https://www.oponeo.co.uk/blog/tyre-warranty-comparison-of-manufacturers


Hope this may help you out it certainly helped me to gather as much information on faulty tyres and get replacement tyres.

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2 hours ago, AlfaEuropa said:

 

 No potholes and it would be hard to see how that would affect all four tyres.

 

The only other thing I can think of is wheelspin in mud. 


I didn’t mean that it might be pothole damage to the tyres, but a pothole may have affected the suspension or alignment. Nearly anything seems to start with a shake around 70mph. Get a second opinion on the tyre distortion issue. But it might just be 1 tyre anyway to give a shake.

 

Not the least chance I’d say that spinning the wheels in mud would affect anything. 

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Bit of an update. The tyres are coming off next week (a fine way to spend Christmas Eve), to be replaced with Bridgestone Bridgestone Turanzas 

 

They are potentially going back to Camskill and then onto Pirelli.

 

As it stands, I'm a bit miffed with Camskill as they won't refund the courier charges which looks like been about £40 (anyone got a recommendation?). The guy mumbled something about GDPR. LOL. It seems wrong that I should lose out on what is a clear safety issue. They've lost my custom

 

I suspect I will end up either not returning them at all or just sending back the newer tyres, depending on my own calculations (refunds are based on tread left on the tyre, which is fair enough).  That seems like a poor outcome for Pirelli and Camskill customers (not to mention me!) who might learn nothing about why the tyres have failed. 

 

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On 15/12/2020 at 16:08, AlfaEuropa said:

The F11 is in the garage today to sort a vibration that appears at about 70mph. Mechanic suspected it would be wheel balancing but now tells me that all four of my tyres are deforming!!

 

The older two (now on the front) were fitted in August 2018 and have done about 20k miles.  The newer two were fitted in 2019 and have done about 10k. All from Camskill. There's a decent amount of tread left all round.

 

We tend to run a full load pressure (or close to) as we tow a caravan with the car.

 

Has anyone else had this happen? I've not seen it before on a car, not across all wheels. It kind of feels like it's my fault but I can't see why. None of them have ever run flat.

I'll probably replace with runflats as I struggled to tell the difference when we had go-flats. 

 

 

what's the date of production on the tyre?

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4 hours ago, AlfaEuropa said:

Bit of an update. The tyres are coming off next week (a fine way to spend Christmas Eve), to be replaced with Bridgestone Bridgestone Turanzas 

 

They are potentially going back to Camskill and then onto Pirelli.

 

As it stands, I'm a bit miffed with Camskill as they won't refund the courier charges which looks like been about £40 (anyone got a recommendation?). The guy mumbled something about GDPR. LOL. It seems wrong that I should lose out on what is a clear safety issue. They've lost my custom

 

I suspect I will end up either not returning them at all or just sending back the newer tyres, depending on my own calculations (refunds are based on tread left on the tyre, which is fair enough).  That seems like a poor outcome for Pirelli and Camskill customers (not to mention me!) who might learn nothing about why the tyres have failed. 

 

 

https://send.dhlparcel.co.uk/resources/sending-alloy-wheels-and-tyres

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44 minutes ago, dj1233 said:

 

what's the date of production on the tyre?

 

Neither of them are very old (as in the same year they were fitted - 2018 and 2019)

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11 hours ago, AlfaEuropa said:

Bit of an update. The tyres are coming off next week (a fine way to spend Christmas Eve), to be replaced with Bridgestone Bridgestone Turanzas 

 

They are potentially going back to Camskill and then onto Pirelli.

 

As it stands, I'm a bit miffed with Camskill as they won't refund the courier charges which looks like been about £40 (anyone got a recommendation?). The guy mumbled something about GDPR. LOL. It seems wrong that I should lose out on what is a clear safety issue. They've lost my custom

 

I suspect I will end up either not returning them at all or just sending back the newer tyres, depending on my own calculations (refunds are based on tread left on the tyre, which is fair enough).  That seems like a poor outcome for Pirelli and Camskill customers (not to mention me!) who might learn nothing about why the tyres have failed. 

 

I don't blame you for being miffed, when I had a problem with my Michelin tyres from Formula one Autocentre it was arranged via them for Michelin to pick up the tyres from their depot and the replacement Michelin tyres were fitted the same day all FOC apart from fitting and balancing, it looks like some companies go the extra mile to keep their customers, which in my case Michelin and Formula One Autocentre did after a little bit of pressure from me.

 

At least you know who not to deal with in the future, from memory I think Michelin offers the best warranty regarding faulty tyres from that list on the link I provided, good luck with your outcome and I hope your claim is successful.

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A few more pictures of the tyres.

 

Just about to send them back. I think they've got 0.5 - 2mm left of tread (before the legal limit), which I make it as between 6 and 30% of the total. TBH, at £10 a tyre to post, it's barely worth sending them back but it seems like the right thing to do.

 

The new tyres have certainly cured the vibration problem, though they seem louder.

image.thumb.png.264ba6bb73acf29f90c80f749ee8a0d9.png

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They seem to be badly cracked for tyres of that age. I tow a caravan and after several hundred miles my rear tyres were shot (run flat original spec) I changed all 4 tyres for non run flats as they're quieter, and the fronts I took off the car are in better condition than those shown in your pictures. The tyres look to be faulty as they shouldn'y be cracking at that age.

Quote

 

 

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On 31/12/2020 at 10:37, Oilburner said:

How old are the tyres in the photo according to the tyre DOT code.

 

Oldest are from 2018, the other "pair" (bought together) are 2019 and 2020

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8 hours ago, AlfaEuropa said:

 

Oldest are from 2018, the other "pair" (bought together) are 2019 and 2020

 

Whilst you don't state the month of manufacturer even if the oldest tyres were made at the start of 2018 they should not have deteriorated, I have known in the past some  tyres can start cracking on the tyre wall when they get to 5 - 6 years old, especially on a vehicle that's not used daily, have you had any news regarding your claim yet..

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On 04/01/2021 at 18:11, Oilburner said:

 

Whilst you don't state the month of manufacturer even if the oldest tyres were made at the start of 2018 they should not have deteriorated, I have known in the past some  tyres can start cracking on the tyre wall when they get to 5 - 6 years old, especially on a vehicle that's not used daily, have you had any news regarding your claim yet..

 

Just heard back from them - Pirelli want to know the garage that condemned the tyres. They seem to be implying that this should have been picked up at its MOT in October.

 

Thing is the vibrations only became evident last month.

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2 hours ago, AlfaEuropa said:

 

Just heard back from them - Pirelli want to know the garage that condemned the tyres. They seem to be implying that this should have been picked up at its MOT in October.

 

Thing is the vibrations only became evident last month.

 

Just a thought maybe the MOT tester requires reading glasses, to be honest I only noticed the cracks on my own tyres when I happened to have my computer/reading glasses on, for me without the said glasses my own eyes did not see the fine cracks in the tyres, I suspect unless the tester has got perfect eyesight he may not have noticed the fine cracks. !

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