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wingman

E39 530d died

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Hi folks - looking for some help. I admit to being a regular reader and this forum has kept my E39 going for the 6 years I've owner her. Anyway today I'm stumped so have joined and will try to contribute.

Today I was exiting a village and went to gently accelerate and it just died. Had my three kids in the car and managed to coast to a straight bit of road and then get them collected and towed the car home. Really odd one, tank is just under half full, got a new Bosch (pierburg) pump under the passenger seat three months ago. I checked for air in the pipe coming out the the fuel filter and there is none, when I pull off the pipe going into the filter and turn on the ignition there is a steady flow of fuel.

I just can't get it to fire.

Swapped cam sensor for a known good one, assumed this wasn't this issue since it died whilst driving and I think this is only used at start. Didn't make any difference.

It's never had injectors, but again since it died whilst driving I doubt it's that either.

It's a 1999 Auto SE model with the round OBD under the bonnet - I don't have a reader and I'm struggling to find one on ebay that looks reliable - any thoughts on that would be appreciated.

I will bung in 10 litres of diesel in the morning to see if it makes any difference, but with no air in the fuel line I guess it won't.

Any thoughts or help would be much appreciated. According to realoem mine doesn't have the in-tank pump so I'm never sure how the fuel gets from one side of the tank to the other! VIN is BZ74714.

Thanks for reading this and any help much appreciated - battery on charge now and it's now getting cold out there.

W4.

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Ray - thanks for getting back to me. I've ordered the INPA/TIS off ebay and will have a go at doing some diagnostics once I get it installed and going. Just seemed odd that it just stopped with no warning. Will update in a few days when I get some codes.

Thanks

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2 hours ago, wingman said:

Ray - thanks for getting back to me. I've ordered the INPA/TIS off ebay and will have a go at doing some diagnostics once I get it installed and going. Just seemed odd that it just stopped with no warning. Will update in a few days when I get some codes.

Thanks

Sounds good for start. Just because it stopped without any signs, it can be anything, so without diagnostic equipment and fault codes we would be lost. Keep thread updated once you get cable.

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This could be  a lack of fuel pressure at the common rail. Try a shot of brake cleaner in the air intake to see if it will start. The only time my 525d ever stopped dead on me was because the fuse to.  the ecu had blown and prevented the correct signal being sent to the sensor at the end of the rail. Obviously though the immediate answer is to get the codes read rather than guessing what could be wrong.

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Hi folks - I managed to get INPA and DIS going today. INPA showed two codes in german, which after translation were glow plus and the EGR valve - both of which I know about and wouldn't make it stop dead.

I tried using DIS and struggled a bit to make sense of it. The one that stands out is:

Engine - No communication possible

- Positive and ground supply B1361_D4REL

- Diagnostic lead B1361_D4DIA

I think this is pointing me to main power to the DDE - I checked the 30a fuses in the electronics box and also tested the blue relay. The fuses are all good and the relay works as expected. I'm not clear where this is grounded back to the body and now it's getting dark.

I'm sort of at a loss so would appreciate and advice or guidance. It still just cranks and doesn't try to fire.

Thanks

W4

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43 minutes ago, wingman said:

Hi folks - I managed to get INPA and DIS going today. INPA showed two codes in german, which after translation were glow plus and the EGR valve - both of which I know about and wouldn't make it stop dead.

I tried using DIS and struggled a bit to make sense of it. The one that stands out is:

Engine - No communication possible

- Positive and ground supply B1361_D4REL

- Diagnostic lead B1361_D4DIA

I think this is pointing me to main power to the DDE - I checked the 30a fuses in the electronics box and also tested the blue relay. The fuses are all good and the relay works as expected. I'm not clear where this is grounded back to the body and now it's getting dark.

I'm sort of at a loss so would appreciate and advice or guidance. It still just cranks and doesn't try to fire.

Thanks

W4

Did you check what fuel supply and rail pressure you are getting while cranking? Another thing you can look at is injector leak of test. Just remove return lines from injectors and check that you don't have massive amounts of diesel coming out from any injectors.  And check with INPA maybe there's any errors at EWS, might be immobilizer related issue.

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Thanks - didn't know how to do that but have looked at some INPA tutorials and think I've worked it out. Question is though, do I physically crank it or will INPA do it for me (sorry if this is a daft question)

I was looking at all the CAN issues that have been thrown up, but after more googling I think these could be due to low battery voltage from when I was cranking it until it died on the side of the road.

I'll try those tests - thanks.

W4

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5 minutes ago, wingman said:

Thanks - didn't know how to do that but have looked at some INPA tutorials and think I've worked it out. Question is though, do I physically crank it or will INPA do it for me (sorry if this is a daft question)

I was looking at all the CAN issues that have been thrown up, but after more googling I think these could be due to low battery voltage from when I was cranking it until it died on the side of the road.

I'll try those tests - thanks.

W4

You need to crank it yourself. There's a lot of useful things you can do/check with INPA, of course need to get little more confident, but we all started from beginning some day. Fuel supply pressure should be anywhere between 3.5-4 bar. Not sure what rail pressure must be while cranking, obviously it will be lower than with running engine, but I can check tomorrow what numbers I'm getting on mine. 

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Right - managed to get some good data today.

 

Pre-supply pump pressure is 3.4 bar - this seems to meet the limits in DIS of 3 to 4 bar so I guess this is fine.

Cranking rail pressure is only 102 bar  - limit in DIS is >250 bar so think I've found the silver bullet.

 

But, mine is a 1999 model and I understand there was an issue with rail pressure sensor wiring that was changed in about 2001. Is there anything I can look at there? I also put a new pressure control valve on the pump about 3 months ago - so something else to look at.

I'll check the injectors for leak off, but is there any experience of one failing that badly whilst driving that the engine cuts out? 

 

Any thoughts or advice much appreciated - I must admit I'm pleased to be getting somewhere now.

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47 minutes ago, wingman said:

Right - managed to get some good data today.

 

Pre-supply pump pressure is 3.4 bar - this seems to meet the limits in DIS of 3 to 4 bar so I guess this is fine.

Cranking rail pressure is only 102 bar  - limit in DIS is >250 bar so think I've found the silver bullet.

 

But, mine is a 1999 model and I understand there was an issue with rail pressure sensor wiring that was changed in about 2001. Is there anything I can look at there? I also put a new pressure control valve on the pump about 3 months ago - so something else to look at.

I'll check the injectors for leak off, but is there any experience of one failing that badly whilst driving that the engine cuts out? 

 

Any thoughts or advice much appreciated - I must admit I'm pleased to be getting somewhere now.

My next step would be injector test, and if there isn't massive amounts of fuel returning, then inspect fuel rail sensor/wiring. 

Did you checked is there any faults immobilizer/EWS related?

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Ray - thanks. I've ordered a leak test kit off ebay, should be here on Monday. The EWS test came up without any faults so that's ok.

I've looked at the rail sensor wiring, but not took the manifold off yet (typical, just put new manifold seals and did a coolant flush and change a month ago). I can see the end of the rail and the wires are sort of stiff wires (not very flexible), but seem in an ok condition, until they go into the sleeving at least. I'm not clear how they used to fail so can't really tell if that's a problem.

I guess the leak off test will point me in the next direction - I'll try it whilst cranking first to see if one of them has died in a big way - otherwise I'll try some easystart..

Thanks again.

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53 minutes ago, TerryTibbs said:

Crank sensor could cause this problem and not throw a fault code up

The cranking speed came up in DIS during the rail pressure test. I'm assuming this is read from that sensor so would probably indicate it's ok?

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For test purposes you can unplug the connector on rail pressure sensor. 

 

If this is a pure low rail pressure problem most likely you can get it running by easy start or brake cleaner sprayed into intake manifold while starting.

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Morning folks - I'm pretty chuffed to let you know she's running again now.

 

The idiot (me) who fitted the pressure control valve a few months ago didn't latch the connector properly and it fell off! I still can't get it to latch and it seems the seal has swelled and split.

 

I'm trying to source a seal this morning as I can't find this same connector anywhere else on the car to rob one from for the time being.

 

Anyway - thanks to Ray112, Clavurion and TerryTibbs for the help.

 

At least I've now got INPA and can clear the million stores codes, and will able to leak check my injectors when the weather improves.

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