Jump to content
duncan-uk

Who is satisfied with the government & also brexit plans?

Recommended Posts

I know this is potentially inflammatory so first off I'm going to caveat this thread in that if it becomes, disrespectful,  personal or in anyway out of control i will pull it - no warnings!

 

Perhaps just put down thoughts without a reply being wanted or required.

 

But who is actually happy with the government and their handling of matters re covid, a levels, brexit etc.

 

Would you change your vote in retrospect?

 

I'm genuinely interested in the range of opinion here as I'm not sure what was promised is being delivered...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My personal feelings are that the Government keep messing things up; but, as this pandemic has put everyone into turmoil, they are unprecedented times and I don't know who could have done better, if they were in power over the current folk

 

I made my decision by voting for Brexit and for having Boris & Co in power; I wouldn't change those votes, at all

 

Things haven't gone right, as much as they could have done; but this is a massive learning curve for everyone. I won't be passing the blame on to anyone until we're all out of this and can see a clearer idea of what happened, what went wrong and what could have been done. But by then, it'l be hindsight etc... A 'would'a, should'a, could'a' scenario really...

 

For me, those calling for so & so to be fired, for them to quite etc; is wrong as it's not just down to one individual 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Covid is a completely unknown pandemic, and no one country could set what worked best for them would for others. You can only follow the limited science available, and guidance that was available at the time. 

No other Government in power could have done a better job (maybe so in the communication side) but overall they'd have had access to the same information. 

Hindsight is wonderful, but at least they are using that to try and help us moving forward, especially for Winter when it is likely to spike again. 

 

Brexit - we'll never know the true details of the deal and the impact down to an individual basis. I can't see anything major changing, probably more red tape when dealing with the EU on a business basis and that's about it. i doubt Visa's will be bought in as we both want free movement of people. 

i don't necessarily agree with the Brexit result, but we do live in a Democracy and this is how it works. Accept the result and try to get the best out of the deal we can. It's not a leave and never re-join situation, and we are still able to trade, communicate and share resources (Medical, Military, Funds etc). We still have a place on the World stage and have a high GDP output that is a big contribution to any territory. The EU, as daft as they can be, wouldn't shun this for fears of upsetting others. 

 

With both situations remove the Media/journalists and have a publication that only publishes Government documents so you can actually read the facts with no spin or biased imposed. Only then can you know the true extent of what is happening, and the process beyond it. Learn from the mistakes that have been made, and make changes for the future/potential plans if we are in similar situations in the next generation. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Who is satisfied with the government & also brexit plans?

 

Brexit plans? There is the problem with Brexit, there never was a plan and there still is no plan!

 

Audio only :

 

 

 

 

Edited by DarkHorse

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 17/08/2020 at 18:15, dj1233 said:

...With both situations remove the Media/journalists and have a publication that only publishes Government documents so you can actually read the facts with no spin or biased imposed. Only then can you know the true extent of what is happening, and the process beyond it. Learn from the mistakes that have been made, and make changes for the future/potential plans if we are in similar situations in the next generation.  

 

 

Take back control? Hmm, sadly not! Tip of the iceberg:

Quote

Parliament will not have a final say on the trade deals negotiated by the government after an amendment to the Trade Bill was defeated in a House of Commons vote on Monday evening (20 July).

The bill, which is currently going through parliament, provides the legal framework for post-Brexit UK trade policy.

The amendment to guarantee MPs a final vote on trade agreements was rejected by a majority of 63 in a victory for the government. ...

https://www.export.org.uk/news/518229/Parliament-loses-right-to-vote-on-trade-deals-as-Trade-Bill-amendment-is-defeated-by-government.htm

 

Quote

Parliament has voted down a legal bid to protect the NHS and publicly funded health and care services from any form of control from outside the UK as the Government seeks to broker post-Brexit trade deals. ...

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/mps-nhs-vote-trade-deals-brexit-a4504631.html

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Sir Anthony Regents-Park said:

They are startlingly incompetent, more so than I predicted. They're not even proper Tories but something far more sinister.

 

Brexit will do nobody here any good.


Sinister. That’s exactly the right word. I saw this coming with Johnson and deputy PM Cummings.  Johnson is a wrecking ball - and the naughty schoolboy thing is wearing thin now. 
 

I voted for a Good local candidate who was not a Conservative last time, because I had a feeling these bastards would be responsible to nobody. And so it came to be. 
 

Other parties share the blame, because there was no effective opposition. I have yet to see much evidence that this has changed. There are one or two decent politicians out there from all parties - but they are in a minority. 
 

I think we are screwed for many years to come. I voted for brexit to be honest. I shouldn’t have. I feel like an idiot for doing so. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Calypso-E34 said:


Sinister. That’s exactly the right word. I saw this coming with Johnson and deputy PM Cummings.  Johnson is a wrecking ball - and the naughty schoolboy thing is wearing thin now. 
 

I voted for a Good local candidate who was not a Conservative last time, because I had a feeling these bastards would be responsible to nobody. And so it came to be. 
 

Other parties share the blame, because there was no effective opposition. I have yet to see much evidence that this has changed. There are one or two decent politicians out there from all parties - but they are in a minority. 
 

I think we are screwed for many years to come. I voted for brexit to be honest. I shouldn’t have. I feel like an idiot for doing so. 

 

You're not an idiot, there must have been valid reasons and concerns to vote out?

 

The minority predicted Brexit would ruin the country, I say COVID has been worse than any predicted Brexit outcome. I just hope the economy can bounce back strong and the NHS get back to treating those who have been patiently suffering since March.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Boris liked to be liked and has filled the cabinet with people who display loyalty to him rather than high levels of ability. The covid disaster has highlighted his deficiencies rather than any abilities. The No 10 power hub driven by Cummings looks  to bypass Parliament and act more in a presidential manner to avoid the accountability. which is built into the Parliamentary system of government. Unless some remarkable trade deals arise from non EU sources I don-t see Brexit bringing much economic benefit to the UK. Although I no longer live there my pensions are in sterling and a poor exchange rate against the euro reduces my income. Unfortunately I don-t see it ending well but I hope I am wrong.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Calypso-E34 said:


Sinister. That’s exactly the right word. I saw this coming with Johnson and deputy PM Cummings.  Johnson is a wrecking ball - and the naughty schoolboy thing is wearing thin now. 
 

I voted for a Good local candidate who was not a Conservative last time, because I had a feeling these bastards would be responsible to nobody. And so it came to be. 
 

Other parties share the blame, because there was no effective opposition. I have yet to see much evidence that this has changed. There are one or two decent politicians out there from all parties - but they are in a minority. 
 

I think we are screwed for many years to come. I voted for brexit to be honest. I shouldn’t have. I feel like an idiot for doing so. 


Don’t feel an idiot. You had a collection of people lying to you repeatedly for years. I’d love to look back over everything people said was Project Fear and see how much actually happened. 
 

Sad thing is, those people who lied to you are doing it all again with their fake outrage at a few hundred people arriving on boats. We have so much “control” with Brexit that we have to ask France to help!

 

Hopefully we can muddle through and make the best of a crap situation. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to reiterate I'm not expecting people to respond/ defend posts they make.

 

I am genuinely curious to find out the sentiment of a segment of the country i am interested in and whether in the current political climate their opinions have changed from whatever start point. In/ out, left / right. Doesn't matter - I'm proposing a "safe space"

 

With coivd its an unprecedented time and a potential paradigm shift in how we live our lives,  the way the world does business is likely to be realigned, the way we travel has been scrutinized, can we make the world better from an environmental perspective, will we go back to as it was should we?

 

The current government raises a lot of questions.

 

I'm curious, 'tis all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that the Covid outbreak has highlited many weaknesses in the way that the country deals with emergencies of any kind. We have been very lucky that Covid is not the awful killer that it could have been but it has, I'm sure, provided much needed data about how people and infrastructure reacts to such events, from the profile of the type of person who stockpiles toilet roll to the reaction of the kinds of people who feel that they are immune to the effects of the virus..And of course how the media reacted. All useful data which could be used to prepare for the time when we have a real killer.

It's my opinion that the media have made the situation far worse than it is, their demand for a blow by blow account of the development of a vaccine is an outrage. Much of medical research is following a thousand blind alleys before they find the solution, then there is much testing which could show the cure is worse than the desease, so research has to go back to square one... The vast majority of research is done behing closed doors away from the bright lights and pressure of media coverage but not in this case and it is unfair to put them under such pressure.. This outbreak was an unknown situation and as such everyone has had to improvise... Some governments did it better than others, some who were initially hailed as getting it right are now shown to have made blunders also... Personally speaking, Covid has barely affected what I do and has has a positive effect on my business, I struggled to find time to take a few days off to do my garden.. I do think that it does mark a major turning point in the way that we shop.. The highstreet is dead and many office based businesses will now question the need for offices when staff can work from their own home office, giving a major environmental boost from all those people who no longer need to travel. Sadly there will be a fair number of people who will discover that their jobs are gone, mainly because they were non productive and not needed..

 

As for Brexit, if you read the Mail, then negotiations with the EU are tough going and the EU are being very obtuse but we will prevail and enter into a new dawn of milk and honey, if you read the Guardian, then the UK is being unreasonable and the world will end.. My prediction is that it will be somewhere inbetween some businesses wild die, new ones will sprout up... How you look at it all depends on how versatile you are and how your particular skill set is needed in the future. Until the conclusion of negotiations, no one knows.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, Karl said:

I think that the Covid outbreak has highlited many weaknesses in the way that the country deals with emergencies of any kind. We have been very lucky that Covid is not the awful killer that it could have been but it has, I'm sure, provided much needed data about how people and infrastructure reacts to such events, from the profile of the type of person who stockpiles toilet roll to the reaction of the kinds of people who feel that they are immune to the effects of the virus..And of course how the media reacted. All useful data which could be used to prepare for the time when we have a real killer.

 

https://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/public-accounts-committee/news-parliament-2017/whole-of-government-response-to-covid-19-report-published-19-21/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can’t see how anyone can think they’ve handled this crisis well. There was no coherent plan, simulations had highlighted shortfalls and nothing was done about them, the NHS had been underfunded for years, we locked down far too late - even when we could see what was happening in Italy and now we have the worst death rate in Europe. Other similar countries around the world have fared much better than us. 

To be fair the alternative of a Corbin led government would probably have been even worse.

 

I can’t see how brexit will do us any favours as we try to recover from Covid-19, we have effectively imposed economic sanctions upon ourselves which can only damage us further. 
 

I can’t believe how much of a mess we’re in as a country really. We should be doing really well, there is a ton of stuff that we do better than most. It feels like a few people, sowing the seeds of discontent, legitimising stupid, bigoted, whining attitudes have won out over fairness, reason and common sense. Politicians appear to be more concerned about their public image and covering their arses than actually delivering what’s required.

Edited by kobayashi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, duncan-uk said:

That's all well and good.. we now have some data as to how pandemic works in the modern world, however, how many possible scenarios are we willing to pay for the preparation of? How prepared was the world for the second world war, given a blind man on a horse could see it coming down the track... There are other scenarios that some claim will hit us soon but no preparation has been made for their possible eventuality.. it's great to be ready, but how much does this preparedness cost..? There are some who deny the existence of covid, how do you convince them?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, kobayashi said:

I can’t see how anyone can think they’ve handled this crisis well. There was no coherent plan, simulations had highlighted shortfalls and nothing was done about them, the NHS had been underfunded for years, we locked down far too late - even when we could see what was happening in Italy and now we have the worst death rate in Europe. Other similar countries around the world have fared much better than us. 

To be fair the alternative of a Corbin led government would probably have been even worse.

 

I can’t see how brexit will do us any favours as we try to recover from Covid-19, we have effectively imposed economic sanctions upon ourselves which can only damage us further. 
 

I can’t believe how much of a mess we’re in as a country really. We should be doing really well, there is a ton of stuff that we do better than most. It feels like a few people, sowing the seeds of discontent, legitimising stupid, bigoted, whining attitudes have won out over fairness, reason and common sense. Politicians appear to be more concerned about their public image and covering their arses than actually delivering what’s required.

It's what politicians do... It seems that I may be on my own in holding the view that what others see as the end of the world, I see as change and opportunity... Though I must admit that I object to the fact that in my taxes, I will be paying for the folk who claimed their 80% to stay at home and do not, worse still is that a great many of them didn't seem to be able to do that right..

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is so easy to criticise those we have elected to be in charge and take responsibility but could any of us done any better?

 

No country in the world has exactly handled the Covid19 outbreak well and every country has made some mistakes - can you honestly argue our Government has done significantly and very obviously worse than other? or better for that matter? The point being it is a fluid situation of a kind unseen for nearly 100 years and in this age of information there has perhaps been too much poor analysis of the information leading to great many misconceptions about the pandemic.

 

Here's an interesting interview with a Doctor in the midst of it all in Spain...

 

 

As for the NHS being under-funded, I suspect thousands of people like myself who have worked in the NHS will see through that untruth; the NHS is not under-funded. The NHS is horrifically and increasingly wasteful of the funding it does get with ever increasing layers of management and analysis as well as paying off the mistakes of previous piss-poor management who wasted enormous sums on ill thought through and vanity driven capital projects or now paying enormous rents after seeing silly short sighted decisions to sell valuable assets and real estate. The NHS will always say it needs more money while it employs too many non-clinical staff in positions of power and authority. It is not a business and should not be run as one, nor is it a gravy train and be used as one.

 

As for Brexit - it was a majority vote by the country and the longer it lingers without being enacted than the more damage will be done. There will be proponents and opponents who will stick to their entrenched views but the simple fact is we have to get through it and get on with life outside the EU.

 

As for if the different bunch of politicians got in - can anyone again honestly say that Corbin, McDonnell and Abbott would have done anything better than the bunch that did get the vote? They were truly incompetent, divided, untruthful and racist in opposition - how would that have played out if they were in a position of power...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 17/08/2020 at 14:05, duncan-uk said:

But who is actually happy with the government and their handling of matters re covid, a levels, brexit etc.

 

Would you change your vote in retrospect?

 

I'm genuinely interested in the range of opinion here as I'm not sure what was promised is being delivered...

As had been pointed out, the vote was in favour of Brexit and the Conservatives won the election. So whether another party would have performed better is irrelevant. The government should be judged on its performance - and it has been dreadful

 

The Commons Select Committee report is damning. The government should have learned from the Cygnus Exercise of 2016. As of 9 June 2020, the report had not been made public because it was 'not in the public interest' (Lord Bethell - Hansard). So there has been no way to check. A report into deaths of NHS workers due to Covid is being kept secret. Meanwhile, 5000 deaths due to Covid have been wiped off the official figures. You have to ask if the government is rewriting history. A report into the alleged Russian involvement in the Brexit vote was suppressed. It would now appear that details of any deal with the US will also be kept secret. The government has attacked Channel 4 and wanted to limit journalists at press conferences to a chosen few. 

 

It is hard not to conclude that Mr Johnson and his carefully selected colleagues do not want anyone to examine what and how they are doing. They appear to want to control the media and spoon feed the electorate what they think it should hear.  This all sounds very familiar.. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, sharkfan said:

...can anyone again honestly say that Corbin, McDonnell and Abbott would have done anything better than the bunch that did get the vote? They were truly incompetent, divided, untruthful and racist in opposition...

Jeez mate, you have been greatly misinformed, Joseph Goebbels would be proud. Look over there... people, please dig a little deeper for the truth.

Boris and his cronies have a 70,000 dead head start. But wait, less just get all upset about not being willing to nuke 1m innocent civilians... security of the nation, a bit ironic really.

 

 

Incompetence or straight out corruption? More to be revealed I'm sure.

Another £150 Million of Public Money Wasted on Corruption

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DarkHorse said:

Jeez mate, you have been greatly misinformed, Joseph Goebbels would be proud. Look over there... people, please dig a little deeper for the truth.

Boris and his cronies have a 70,000 dead head start. But wait, less just get all upset about not being willing to nuke 1m innocent civilians... security of the nation, a bit ironic really.

 

 

Incompetence or straight out corruption? More to be revealed I'm sure.

Another £150 Million of Public Money Wasted on Corruption

 

 

 

Corbin, McDonnell and Abbot have all been found out to be untruthful and Abbot has been found out to be racist on numerous occasions.

 

I'm not sure what this has to do about what you posted while highlighting this in my post?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the era of when clever people got into politics to help their country and the people in their country has long since passed. You need only look at the amount of money some politicians make whilst still conducting their political careers to see where their true motivations lie.

 

I do also agree with the premise that these days we have to choose the least worst option for our leaders but just like democracy itself, while the the least worst option may not be very palatable it is better than the other options that have been tried.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×