Jump to content
duncan-uk

Who is satisfied with the government & also brexit plans?

Recommended Posts

3 minutes ago, nealpina said:

 

I think kayser540 has confirmed my earlier point

 

 

 

That's borderline patronising (as you said it twice consecutively)  The more you say something doesn't mean it is true.  Likewise when I have said several times the benefits will take some time to appear  


So Brexit had nothing to do with the huge increase in volumes? 
 

Why was ever business trying to get goods in and out of the U.K. before the 31st December? 
 

You have you just taken one sentence out of my post to suit your agenda.. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, nealpina said:

 

No because it was relevant 


So are you saying Brexit had no effect on goods going in out out the the country towards the end of December? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, nealpina said:

That's borderline patronising (as you said it twice consecutively)  The more you say something doesn't mean it is true.  Likewise when I have said several times the benefits will take some time to appear  

You said that the benefits will take some time to appear several times?? Isn't it patronising to repeat stuff? :D

 

As for Nissan, the more I read about it, the more it sounds like less of a brexit benefit. Nissan aren't doing anything they weren't able to do before brexit, so why are they so enthusiastic about it? Well, that's because it will give them a competitive advantage over cars that are imported into the UK (where prices are expected to increase between 0.5% and 2%). So the government haven't done something that specifically makes it better for Nissan, they've done something that makes it worse for their competitors. It's an important distinction, because as consumers we now face higher prices and reduced competition.

 

Yes, it might lead to all the other manufacturers opening plants in the UK too, but is there enough demand to really support that much local supply?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ similar thoughts, was typing this as you did:

 

If i get this right what Karl is producing is a better / more robust version of an existing product using UK components and is repairable with easily sourced parts - this seems laudable from both an environmental perspective and a maintenance one and sits well with me in terms of buy once and buy right ie quality is remembered after the price is forgotten.

 

But also its only become a viable product because of trade tariffs and costs of buying a supposedly inferior EU sourced product. As such what was holding this idea back was a competition from cheaper options?

 

So there is no EU law that prevented him making it just it wouldn't have been competitive? Presumably people always had the option to by a "better" dearer product?

 

Either way Joe public is paying more either buying the apparently better product rather than the now dearer EU product so Karl will potentially succeed as his competition is removed but the user is now forced to pay more than he did before or am i missing something?

 

The way i see it is if brexit is successful then the the worst case for remainers is they get richer, if it fails then everyone suffers.

 

Of course there will always be individual opportunities like people making money in stock market crashes or the WW2 black market however i would argue that isn't a tangible benefit to the UK as a whole?

 

I agree its early days but i still struggle with what the EU actually prevented us doing?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Talking of Nissan, didn’t they say that they would have to pull out of Britain if we even dared to vote Yes to leaving the EU?

So they must be happy with the deal then.

Edited by Paddy O'Furniture

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Paddy O'Furniture said:

Talking of Nissan, didn’t they say that they would have to pull out of Britain if we even dared to vote Yes to leaving the EU?

So they must be happy with the deal then.

 

As above, I can see why they're extremely happy with the deal. The concern is that their happiness will come at the expense of consumers. I guess as long as you were planning on buying a hybrid Juke, you'll be ok though.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, duncan-uk said:

Are we not giving Nissan £80m in support funding?

 

Between 1984 and 2015, Nissan received £800 million in incentives from the government.  In 2019, Nissan were offered an £80 million incentive to build the Xtrail here. They were so concerned about the effects of Brexit that they decided against it.  That did not disqualify them from receiving a £60 million grant shortly afterwards.    

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 03/02/2021 at 11:07, Paddy O'Furniture said:


Don’t think you need to be “qualified” to drive a Sprinter van.

If you’re talking about HGV drivers, there was a shortage 6 years ago when I left the industry, so nothing to do with leaving the EU. In fact a lot of people would say that the driver shortage was a direct consequence of being in the EU as there was an influx of Eastern European drivers who were prepared to work for lower wages, hence driving down pay rates.

The shortage of HGV drivers goes even further back. Ten years ago, it was around 35,000. Now it is probably double that. The average age of HGV drivers is now 53 - there are simply not enough young drivers coming into the industry.  A survey by the Chartered Institute of Logistics and Transport put it down to the cost of getting a licence and CPC in the first place and facilities when you have got them.  Unlike France, the UK government decided that waiting time does not count towards the working week.  It made a mockery of what was intended to be a scheme to improve driver safety and used the Swedish derrogation to avoid pay parity for agency workers. It is hardly any wonder that drivers leave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, whiskychaser said:

A survey by the Chartered Institute of Logistics and Transport put it down to the cost of getting a licence and CPC


Ahhh, the Driver CPC. Another complete load of boll***s from the EU.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Paddy O'Furniture said:


Ahhh, the Driver CPC. Another complete load of boll***s from the EU.

 

Until I read the legislation, I would have agreed. The EU found that better trained drivers had less accidents. So they made a day's safety training each year mandatory.  Unfortunately, they left the specifics of the training to each country. Which is how it came to be screwed up here

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 01/02/2021 at 09:27, Karl said:

Aye, and there's no vaccine on any of the fekkers.....

 

In the meantime, I've moved into a production unit, almost finished building the office, got four prototype units out in the field on test (72% uk made components, so not bad for a start)  whilst being incredibly busy on the heating side of life... Whilst you, Inky and Dead Horse have been sitting on your jacksies crying for Ursula von de Leyen.. You are yesterdays men


Actually, I’d forgotten you’d even existed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did a stint of class 2 HGV driving a few years ago. I can see how there would be a shortage of drivers, it's not an easy game to get in to. Tried to cut my teeth doing temp work which was not a good combination with little experience, I don't mind rules and regs but the shrugging shoulders when you asked for clarification was maddening.

 

Re: 'Who is satisfied with the government & also brexit plans?'

 

giphy.gif

 

Not much point in stressing about it though, not going to do me any good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dicks:

 

U-turn by Boris Johnson as he moves from denying Irish Sea border’s reality to attempting to delay some of its checks

After weeks of denial that an Irish Sea border exists, Boris Johnson’s government has U-turned to ask for major parts of the trade frontier to be delayed for years.

Mr Johnson has repeatedly made inaccurate claims about the Irish Sea border, even contradicting his own government’s documents at various points.

Yesterday he told the Commons that he is ready to override elements of the Northern Ireland Protocol by triggering Article 16 of that accord.

 

 

https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/politics/u-turn-boris-johnson-he-moves-denying-irish-sea-borders-reality-attempting-delay-some-its-checks-3123306

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, DarkHorse said:

U-turn by Boris Johnson as he moves from denying Irish Sea border’s reality to attempting to delay some of its checks

After weeks of denial that an Irish Sea border exists, Boris Johnson’s government has U-turned to ask for major parts of the trade frontier to be delayed for years.

 

Oh, those must be the non-existent checks which were suspended following threats to port staff. They have only cost £50 million so far. (Item 36. CP346 N Ireland Protocol December 2020)  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 03/02/2021 at 21:56, Karl said:

On the question of the CPTPP, I see no major issues in principal for the UK to join. They seem to have no political or legal aspirations at this time.

 

Thank you for your wisdom, but I have run small businesses since my early twenties.. Some of them worked, some of them did not but you seem to be from the business group who still believe in "Stack it high and sell it cheap" in that respect the Chinese will kill you every time.. I live in the world where "Turn over is vanity, profit is sanity"... As such, my product is what customers want, not what is on offer. The design is from off the shelf components which if one brand should suddeny become hard to find, then an alernative of similar performance and quality can be utilised.. Prices will always increase, be they imported or made in the UK. There are some customers who will always buy on price, to them I would direct them to buy else where as I don't want their business but there are enough customers who require good quality to feed my business for many years... I get the impression that you no longer work for the family business.. Reason?

 

Hi Karl,

When our family business was importing on a significant scale from China, our target market was the entry to mid level for consumers. The prestige/high end of the market wasn't worth trying to challenge/be a part of. Our network of 55 independent local dealers were very happy to have the products we imported in their premises. We used to deal with the top 20 Chinese manufacturers directly, no agents or middlemen - we'd do deal with the factory owners themselves. After a short while, we decided to kick out 15 of those and only deal with the top 5. Those 15 cried, ALOT, but we stuck to it and it was a great business decision for us, our dealers and thus, end customers in the general public. So 'profit' was a factor for everyone in the supply chain. The economic slowdown of 2008 meant things slowed and we 'downsized' that business and moved to another different sector altogether. Didn't need the 24,000 Sq Ft warehouse anymore and we had to say goodbye to around 35 staff. If you work well, closely with good Chinese manufacturers, they often reciprocate in the interests of business, to the point those top 5 purchased houses in the UK near to us for their staff, quality was already great and it improved with that collaboration. Whenever those owners are in the UK nowadays, we still meet up for dinner. On the flip side, there's plenty of other Chinese manufacturers and their owners who even back then (2005-2010) wouldn't bother with the small and not on their radar UK market. If we did talk more to them at the Canton Trade Fair, they'd simply increase the price for anyone looking to import to the UK. When we were working closely with our suppliers/manufacturers, prices reduced given the business relationship that we nurtured. A free trade deal is only worthwhile when actual people and their businesses agree to deal with each other to take advantage of any concessions within the FTA. More recently, China has been feeling the effects of the global slowdown and the increased effects of that since CV19 came about. The UK also left the EU and is now a 'relatively' small independent country with 'troubling' financial outlook over the next few years at the very least. There'll be a 'shift' in businesses in the UK of course who are and will be able to trade with China and other nations, but they're now got an even harder time of it as the massive EU market is now longer or, much harder to access. 

 

On 03/02/2021 at 22:06, Karl said:

Can you blame the employer for recognising that there is a glut of labour and so offer lower pay and/or lesser conditions? This is exactly what has happened... Cut off the supply of endless labour and employers have to once again consider how they can retain their staff... Usually, improved wages and conditions are a good start.... There is no shortage of drivers, plumbers, wig wam winders.... There is a shortage of monkeys wo are willing to work for peanuts... If a driver discovers that he can earn more money stacking shelves at Aldi, he would be foolish not to do that.

 

Can you also provide a link to the reports from reputable, independent research has been carried out to support this view ? the way it was made out in the tabloids and from the prominent Brexit politicians and supporters is that there was a 'big' difference in pay etc. The reports I've seen and published indicate it's a relatively small change in various industry sectors only that had this. On the flip side, the higher end of various other sectors didn't have this at all and over the last few decades, salaries increased and often, by quite a lot. The Brexit Politicians were often saying they want to bring high paying, high value, professional candidates to the UK once we were independent, so this 'blaming' of EU workers won't hold true. Some of my extended family abroad who are Specialists, Consultants, Professors in the Medical sector have come here to evaluate if they'd like to move here and join the NHS with the view of some to open Private Practices too within their specialties. They've all decided to give the UK a miss and go to other countries. Of course, some will still come here and the UK has made 'fast track' Visas to try and entice them, it remains to be seen how many do actually come over to the newly independent UK. I'd also suggest, based on the published reports about the effects of EU migration and pay in certain sectors, that most employers didn't deliberately lower pay and conditions - perhaps 'some' did though to which it's shame on them.

 

On 04/02/2021 at 09:45, nealpina said:

 

 

 

 

It's basic Economics.  It's called surplus of labour.  I would think that every example of a surplus of labour in non-pandemic/peacetime, will show wages do drop when there is a surplus of labour.  Could be one of the few things Economist will agree on 

 

As per above. Which industry sectors experienced a significant drop in pay/conditions due to EU migrant workers ? 

 

On 04/02/2021 at 12:08, nealpina said:

 

I think kayser540 has confirmed my earlier point

 

 

 

That's borderline patronising (as you said it twice consecutively)  The more you say something doesn't mean it is true.  Likewise when I have said several times the benefits will take some time to appear  

 

This was mentioned alot 'it'll take time for the benefits of Brexit to appear'. When you ask those prominent Brexit politicians what those benefits are and an loose timeframe, both natural questions to ask, there's no good responses. It was Jacob Rees Mogg who mentioned it may be 50 years before the UK sees the benefits of Brexit! he didn't really mentioned 'what' those benefits would or could be either. Same with Nigel Farrage, very very little on substance. I recall him when he was on his LBC show proclaiming 'I can safely say theres at least 10 countries around the world away from the EU who are literally banging our doors down for a free trade deal' ..  then didn't mention any. The UK has indeed signed a 'new' FTA with Japan and not a 'rollover' of existing agreements. It's worth an extra 0.07% of UK GDP. I'd have thought if it was worth 5-10% it'd be a lucrative and fantastic FTA and a benefit of Brexit the whole country could look forward to. If the much talked of US FTA was worth maybe 10-15/20%, then that would be similar.  

 

I do understand a country would want to have the power to govern itself, and from that point of view, I can see why some of the population voted for Brexit. I can't see any other solid and progressively beneficial benefits apart from that. I also fully agree, the way the EU has behaved with the vaccine debacle hasn't been good. In a similar vein, the way China treats some of it's minorities is nothing short of genocide and yet currently leave voters aren't calling for not dealing with them (nor are those who voted to remain either).

 

There's more talk of Scotland wishing to leave the UK and rejoin/remain a part of the EU, Wales may ask the same - if Ireland can have a special setup, then the Scots and Welsh can/will ask the same too. The UK government is flip flopping as more of the realities of Brexit become apparent from the 'last second' deal that was signed, which we all know isn't very good overall as well.

 

All we can do now is 'hope' things don't deteriorate too badly for the UK. 

 

Cheers, Dennis!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, DennisCooper said:

 

Hi Karl,

When our family business was importing on a significant scale from China, our target market was the entry to mid level for consumers. The prestige/high end of the market wasn't worth trying to challenge/be a part of. Our network of 55 independent local dealers were very happy to have the products we imported in their premises. We used to deal with the top 20 Chinese manufacturers directly, no agents or middlemen - we'd do deal with the factory owners themselves. After a short while, we decided to kick out 15 of those and only deal with the top 5. Those 15 cried, ALOT, but we stuck to it and it was a great business decision for us, our dealers and thus, end customers in the general public. So 'profit' was a factor for everyone in the supply chain. The economic slowdown of 2008 meant things slowed and we 'downsized' that business and moved to another different sector altogether. Didn't need the 24,000 Sq Ft warehouse anymore and we had to say goodbye to around 35 staff. If you work well, closely with good Chinese manufacturers, they often reciprocate in the interests of business, to the point those top 5 purchased houses in the UK near to us for their staff, quality was already great and it improved with that collaboration. Whenever those owners are in the UK nowadays, we still meet up for dinner. On the flip side, there's plenty of other Chinese manufacturers and their owners who even back then (2005-2010) wouldn't bother with the small and not on their radar UK market. If we did talk more to them at the Canton Trade Fair, they'd simply increase the price for anyone looking to import to the UK. When we were working closely with our suppliers/manufacturers, prices reduced given the business relationship that we nurtured. A free trade deal is only worthwhile when actual people and their businesses agree to deal with each other to take advantage of any concessions within the FTA. More recently, China has been feeling the effects of the global slowdown and the increased effects of that since CV19 came about. The UK also left the EU and is now a 'relatively' small independent country with 'troubling' financial outlook over the next few years at the very least. There'll be a 'shift' in businesses in the UK of course who are and will be able to trade with China and other nations, but they're now got an even harder time of it as the massive EU market is now longer or, much harder to access. 

 

 

Can you also provide a link to the reports from reputable, independent research has been carried out to support this view ? the way it was made out in the tabloids and from the prominent Brexit politicians and supporters is that there was a 'big' difference in pay etc. The reports I've seen and published indicate it's a relatively small change in various industry sectors only that had this. On the flip side, the higher end of various other sectors didn't have this at all and over the last few decades, salaries increased and often, by quite a lot. The Brexit Politicians were often saying they want to bring high paying, high value, professional candidates to the UK once we were independent, so this 'blaming' of EU workers won't hold true. Some of my extended family abroad who are Specialists, Consultants, Professors in the Medical sector have come here to evaluate if they'd like to move here and join the NHS with the view of some to open Private Practices too within their specialties. They've all decided to give the UK a miss and go to other countries. Of course, some will still come here and the UK has made 'fast track' Visas to try and entice them, it remains to be seen how many do actually come over to the newly independent UK. I'd also suggest, based on the published reports about the effects of EU migration and pay in certain sectors, that most employers didn't deliberately lower pay and conditions - perhaps 'some' did though to which it's shame on them.

 

 

As per above. Which industry sectors experienced a significant drop in pay/conditions due to EU migrant workers ? 

 

 

This was mentioned alot 'it'll take time for the benefits of Brexit to appear'. When you ask those prominent Brexit politicians what those benefits are and an loose timeframe, both natural questions to ask, there's no good responses. It was Jacob Rees Mogg who mentioned it may be 50 years before the UK sees the benefits of Brexit! he didn't really mentioned 'what' those benefits would or could be either. Same with Nigel Farrage, very very little on substance. I recall him when he was on his LBC show proclaiming 'I can safely say theres at least 10 countries around the world away from the EU who are literally banging our doors down for a free trade deal' ..  then didn't mention any. The UK has indeed signed a 'new' FTA with Japan and not a 'rollover' of existing agreements. It's worth an extra 0.07% of UK GDP. I'd have thought if it was worth 5-10% it'd be a lucrative and fantastic FTA and a benefit of Brexit the whole country could look forward to. If the much talked of US FTA was worth maybe 10-15/20%, then that would be similar.  

 

I do understand a country would want to have the power to govern itself, and from that point of view, I can see why some of the population voted for Brexit. I can't see any other solid and progressively beneficial benefits apart from that. I also fully agree, the way the EU has behaved with the vaccine debacle hasn't been good. In a similar vein, the way China treats some of it's minorities is nothing short of genocide and yet currently leave voters aren't calling for not dealing with them (nor are those who voted to remain either).

 

There's more talk of Scotland wishing to leave the UK and rejoin/remain a part of the EU, Wales may ask the same - if Ireland can have a special setup, then the Scots and Welsh can/will ask the same too. The UK government is flip flopping as more of the realities of Brexit become apparent from the 'last second' deal that was signed, which we all know isn't very good overall as well.

 

All we can do now is 'hope' things don't deteriorate too badly for the UK. 

 

Cheers, Dennis!

Dennis is just worried about himself and his two bob business. Don’t be a Dennis....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, roofer said:

Dennis is just worried about himself and his two bob business. Don’t be a Dennis....


I wonder why you didn’t say the same when a Brexit supporter said their business would benefit?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

More sunny uplands ahoy! All project fear, enit.

 

 

Fury at Gove as exports to EU slashed by 68% since Brexit

Hauliers say Cabinet Office minister ignored warnings, amid fears that worse is to come with introduction of import checks in July

 

...in addition to the 68% fall-off in exports, about 65%-75% of vehicles that had come over from the EU were going back empty because there were no goods for them to return with, due to hold-ups on the UK side, and because some UK companies had either temporarily or permanently halted exports to the EU.

 

...also predicted a new set of difficulties in months to come as the infrastructure needed at the point when the UK introduces full import checks on goods from the EU on 1 July would not, in his view, be ready in time. This raised the prospect of a whole new set of issues affecting imports.

 

A government spokesperson said: “...We do not recognise the figure provided on exports. ..."

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/feb/06/fury-at-gove-as-exports-to-eu-slashed-by-68-since-brexit

 

Edited by DarkHorse
updated

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, roofer said:

Dennis is just worried about himself and his two bob business. Don’t be a Dennis....

 

Hi Roofer, 

 

Keep the insults coming ! 

 

Cheers, Dennis!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 03/02/2021 at 20:51, Karl said:

Care workers are indeed pleased to have less competition, so you can sneer all you like but it is a simple economic fact that if there is an unlimited supply of labour than there is no incentive for the companies and agencies to make an effort to retain them... Throttle off the supply of labour and employers have to look a little closer at wages and conditions in order to retain staff so that they can fulfill their contracts... The days of treating your staff like shit are coming to an end. Not a good time for middle managers though.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/08/uk-care-workers-use-leave-avoid-losing-pay-sick-covid

 

maybe what you assume is a simple economic fact is actually a much more complex situation and artificially throttling the supply of labour isn’t guaranteed to make life better after all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lord Ashcroft's poll revealed what many thought. A third of Leave voters said the main reason for leaving was  it 'offered the best chance for the UK to regain control over immigration and its own borders'.  So the first thing Boris does when he gets into number 10 is declare his support for an amnesty for illegal immigrants. Of course, this was quickly swept under the carpet but the issue has raised its head once more. The government is now proposing an amnesty for all illegals so that they can get a Covid jab. Of course, they have to form an orderly queue but ... 

 

 

 

 

jam.jpg

Edited by whiskychaser

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 07/02/2021 at 00:51, roofer said:

Dennis is just worried about himself and his two bob business. Don’t be a Dennis....


yeah, don’t be a Dennis... and look at this guy worrying about his two bob business too:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55997641

 

and all the other businesses that are losing money, threatening to move to the EU or cutting jobs. Bloody moaners, eh? We don’t need them. The only people we want to hear from are people who say brexit is great, so we can sit in our little bubble, pretending it was all worth it for a some imaginary sovereignty and a blue passport.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×