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Who is satisfied with the government & also brexit plans?

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17 minutes ago, nealpina said:

The major benefit is covid vaccine.  

 

The issue AstraZeneca which Macron and Ursula von der Leyen are referring to is a misprint of a German newspaper article.  I cannot remember the precise  details.  It was something like 8 people who were tested above 65 had the vaccine in a test (there was no negativity with that test)

 

As Macron cannot provide enough vaccines he lied about AstraZeneca with Ursula von der Leyen last night.  When they both said yesterday it is not effective for above 65 years old people.  

 

As they pushed the big red button last week with trade.  The EU admitted that AstraZeneca contract is fair and they made a big mistake.

 

To me this shows that the EU are just bullies.

 

I have always said it will take some time for the benefits to appear and for the disruptions to stop.  It has only just been over a month. 

  


This will always be a benefit to the U.K. as any decision will not need discussion/approval of all 27 block.. Although talking to a customer from Zalando Germany, Germany has negotiated its own deal aswell as the EU deal. 
 

from what he has told me every country is free to negotiate its own vaccine deal but it was done as a collective to show unity and keep the cost down.. not sure how much of that is true.. 

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1 hour ago, kayser540 said:

Not sure which company this is but not according to DHL,DPD,Hermes, FedEx, Amazon, UPS, parcelforce who have been struggling to find qualified drivers.. 


Don’t think you need to be “qualified” to drive a Sprinter van.

If you’re talking about HGV drivers, there was a shortage 6 years ago when I left the industry, so nothing to do with leaving the EU. In fact a lot of people would say that the driver shortage was a direct consequence of being in the EU as there was an influx of Eastern European drivers who were prepared to work for lower wages, hence driving down pay rates.

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9 hours ago, Karl said:

Plenty of folk are benefitting from Brexit... Possibly, they are just not the kind of people that you would care to mix with..  The driver who dropped me 10 boilers this week seemed much happier as his boss now has to make an effort to retain drivers, construction industry workers too have less competition, same with care workers... The environment wins too.. One food producer in Yorkshire has abandoned importing Basil from Italy on trucks in favour of a UK developed and manufactured semi automated vertical Basil production plant for use in their sausages... Much less waste, fresher produce and less physical handling..... Your Northern warehousmen will be fine. Buying gear from China, branding it and selling it on? Really??

I love that you think care workers are relieved that there's now less competition for jobs... :lol:

 

 

Unfortunately, I think this is the best we will get from the brexiters: "I'm doing ok", "this company has changed to work within the restrictions", "that company is using UK components". Yes, some companies will be able to change, and some companies will do very well out of it. But these companies were all doing well before we left, so wtf have we actually gained? 

 

Faced with the dull grey reality of brexit I suspect many brexiters will now, like Karl is, try to convince everyone that as long as the very worst 'remoaner' predictions don't come true, we can call brexit a success. Well it's not that easy. For brexit to be a success, we need to be better off AS A COUNTRY than we were before we left. So far, Karls lonely four prototypes aren't impressing me.

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1 hour ago, Paddy O'Furniture said:


Don’t think you need to be “qualified” to drive a Sprinter van.

If you’re talking about HGV drivers, there was a shortage 6 years ago when I left the industry, so nothing to do with leaving the EU. In fact a lot of people would say that the driver shortage was a direct consequence of being in the EU as there was an influx of Eastern European drivers who were prepared to work for lower wages, hence driving down pay rates.

 

Hi Paddy,

 

Who exactly was offering lower wages? That's right, it's businesses here in the UK, the drivers from other countries came here and filled the jobs. You should be directing your anger to the companies and their bosses who decided to pay a lower wage. If British Drivers turned their noses up at the pay on offer, that's their fault. Same with the other sectors where this is mentioned, the workers from the EU didn't come over and then say, oh don't pay us £13p/h, pay us £8 p/h ! 

 

1 hour ago, Spandex said:

I love that you think care workers are relieved that there's now less competition for jobs... :lol:

 

 

Unfortunately, I think this is the best we will get from the brexiters: "I'm doing ok", "this company has changed to work within the restrictions", "that company is using UK components". Yes, some companies will be able to change, and some companies will do very well out of it. But these companies were all doing well before we left, so wtf have we actually gained? 

 

Faced with the dull grey reality of brexit I suspect many brexiters will now, like Karl is, try to convince everyone that as long as the very worst 'remoaner' predictions don't come true, we can call brexit a success. Well it's not that easy. For brexit to be a success, we need to be better off AS A COUNTRY than we were before we left. So far, Karls lonely four prototypes aren't impressing me.

 

Agreed - There will be some sectors of industry and specific businesses / companies who'll do well as the effects of Brexit begin to further impact the UK. For instance, those involved in Artificial Intelligence seemingly can look forward to increased and rapid growth. The UK's Apples industry is also predicted to have a major boost due to Brexit as well. However, there's the aspect where many other sectors won't fare as good and the least damage may well be something along the lines of earnings reductions both for business owners and staff that work for them to the worst where businesses aren't viable any more and thus close completely. 

 

Kayser - Although we were busy when my family business was importing, we got to around 25/27 containers a month, so not near to your level !  From your post, it's a shame that one of your facilities will have to close and the jobs that'll be lost as a result as well as a reduction in the company you work at/own in order to keep an operational presence. The UK has set it's own rules now and due to that, it's become harder to import/export with the EU. All we can do now is 'hope' that the UK makes changes to make it easier to continue trading with the massive market we've just left and on our doorstep. 

 

Karl - Good luck to you in your business! You mention that 72% of your components are UK sourced so the remaining 28% need to be imported in. If there's issues/cost rises/availability problems will your business be able to get alternatives in order to keep trading? I assume it will and most likely at higher and increased costs by you having to perhaps personally import in from suppliers/manufacturers based aroudn the globe. You'll perhaps have to hope that such a solution will allow you to get the components you need at the volume you need and at a suitable price that you'll be able to absorb the costs of. Chances are likely you'll need to increase your prices to cover those costs (if not, then great, you can offer the same price to your customers but you'll have a reduced margin), and that runs the risk of cancelled/reduced sales longer term. For those who's businesses likely won't be able to absorb the increased costs when relying on imported goods, as per above, they can only 'hope' the UK now as an independent nation, makes it easier to trade with the worlds largest trading block on our doorstep. How long would you ask such companies to keep 'hoping' for ?

 

Once the medical effects of C19 recede, the population gets vaccinated etc and more people can move about again, there will be a 'bounceback' fiscally for the UK as a whole. Those companies that've been able to weather the storm will begin to move back to what will be the 'new' normal and 'hopefully' continue to operate with none/minimal job losses etc. There'll likely to be a lot of commercial space available as many companies make more of a change to home working and thus need a smaller commercial space (or none at all) . It's at that point that the UK will be able to see where it stands and begin to recover from the economic hit of C19 and then tackle the 'Brexit' related issues. 

 

One thing I'd like to ask leave voters is; what are their thoughts about having left the EU, that the UK has asked to join the CPTPP? Would they be in support of this?

 

Cheers, Dennis!

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57 minutes ago, DennisCooper said:

You should be directing your anger to the companies and their bosses who decided to pay a lower wage.


I’m not angry Dennis. :D

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On 01/02/2021 at 09:27, Karl said:

Aye, and there's no vaccine on any of the fekkers.....

 

In the meantime, I've moved into a production unit, almost finished building the office, got four prototype units out in the field on test (72% uk made components, so not bad for a start)  whilst being incredibly busy on the heating side of life... Whilst you, Inky and Dead Horse have been sitting on your jacksies crying for Ursula von de Leyen.. You are yesterdays men


Perhaps it would help people understand how brexit is a good thing if you explained why none of the above was possible before we left the EU.

 

I’m sure there will be examples out there of companies that benefit from brexit, but so far it just feels like people are trying to convince us that a company being unaffected by brexit somehow counts as a success story.

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5 hours ago, Spandex said:


Perhaps it would help people understand how brexit is a good thing if you explained why none of the above was possible before we left the EU.

 

I’m sure there will be examples out there of companies that benefit from brexit, but so far it just feels like people are trying to convince us that a company being unaffected by brexit somehow counts as a success story.

Although I wouldn't expect you to understand, Brexit has made it more difficult to import from the EU so although there is no import duty on the goods, there are admin fees.... This opens up opportunities for small businesses to move from their current position of service industry to manufacturing. The product that I am producing is a direct replacement for a product that was once produced in the UK till the manufacturer was bought by an EU based business, production was transferred to China, imported to the EU, slapped with a CE mark and slick marketing that suggests that it is but does not state that it is EU made using a name that the customers know and trust... As it happens the new Chinese unit is junk, the UK manufacturer has been reduced to being a parts warehouse and the staff just take and dispatch orders for spare parts.... If returning manufacturing to the UK isn't a benefit of Brexit, then I don't know what is... Perhaps you are fine with your kids sitting in a cubicle with a headset stuck to their heads all day.

 

Care workers are indeed pleased to have less competition, so you can sneer all you like but it is a simple economic fact that if there is an unlimited supply of labour than there is no incentive for the companies and agencies to make an effort to retain them... Throttle off the supply of labour and employers have to look a little closer at wages and conditions in order to retain staff so that they can fulfill their contracts... The days of treating your staff like shit are coming to an end. Not a good time for middle managers though.

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8 hours ago, DennisCooper said:

 

Karl - Good luck to you in your business! You mention that 72% of your components are UK sourced so the remaining 28% need to be imported in. If there's issues/cost rises/availability problems will your business be able to get alternatives in order to keep trading? I assume it will and most likely at higher and increased costs by you having to perhaps personally import in from suppliers/manufacturers based aroudn the globe. You'll perhaps have to hope that such a solution will allow you to get the components you need at the volume you need and at a suitable price that you'll be able to absorb the costs of. Chances are likely you'll need to increase your prices to cover those costs (if not, then great, you can offer the same price to your customers but you'll have a reduced margin), and that runs the risk of cancelled/reduced sales longer term. For those who's businesses likely won't be able to absorb the increased costs when relying on imported goods, as per above, they can only 'hope' the UK now as an independent nation, makes it easier to trade with the worlds largest trading block on our doorstep. How long would you ask such companies to keep 'hoping' for ?

 

 

 

One thing I'd like to ask leave voters is; what are their thoughts about having left the EU, that the UK has asked to join the CPTPP? Would they be in support of this?

 

On the question of the CPTPP, I see no major issues in principal for the UK to join. They seem to have no political or legal aspirations at this time.

 

Thank you for your wisdom, but I have run small businesses since my early twenties.. Some of them worked, some of them did not but you seem to be from the business group who still believe in "Stack it high and sell it cheap" in that respect the Chinese will kill you every time.. I live in the world where "Turn over is vanity, profit is sanity"... As such, my product is what customers want, not what is on offer. The design is from off the shelf components which if one brand should suddeny become hard to find, then an alernative of similar performance and quality can be utilised.. Prices will always increase, be they imported or made in the UK. There are some customers who will always buy on price, to them I would direct them to buy else where as I don't want their business but there are enough customers who require good quality to feed my business for many years... I get the impression that you no longer work for the family business.. Reason?

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8 hours ago, DennisCooper said:

 

Hi Paddy,

 

Who exactly was offering lower wages? That's right, it's businesses here in the UK, the drivers from other countries came here and filled the jobs. You should be directing your anger to the companies and their bosses who decided to pay a lower wage. If British Drivers turned their noses up at the pay on offer, that's their fault. Same with the other sectors where this is mentioned, the workers from the EU didn't come over and then say, oh don't pay us £13p/h, pay us £8 p/h ! 

 

 

 

Can you blame the employer for recognising that there is a glut of labour and so offer lower pay and/or lesser conditions? This is exactly what has happened... Cut off the supply of endless labour and employers have to once again consider how they can retain their staff... Usually, improved wages and conditions are a good start.... There is no shortage of drivers, plumbers, wig wam winders.... There is a shortage of monkeys wo are willing to work for peanuts... If a driver discovers that he can earn more money stacking shelves at Aldi, he would be foolish not to do that.

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11 hours ago, kayser540 said:


This will always be a benefit to the U.K. as any decision will not need discussion/approval of all 27 block.. Although talking to a customer from Zalando Germany, Germany has negotiated its own deal aswell as the EU deal. 
 

from what he has told me every country is free to negotiate its own vaccine deal but it was done as a collective to show unity and keep the cost down.. not sure how much of that is true.. 

Hungary has negotiated with Russia to be supplied with the Sputnik V vaccine and has encountered the wrath of the EU yet again... Now Germany is toying with the idea of using Sputnik also... Individual EU state governments are increasingly coming under pressure from their own voters for being foolish enough to rely on the EU to provide the requred doses of vaccine, many states have now broken ranks and have given up on the EU to provide... I think it was a similar story with ventilators..

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11 hours ago, Karl said:

Although I wouldn't expect you to understand, Brexit has made it more difficult to import from the EU so although there is no import duty on the goods, there are admin fees.... This opens up opportunities for small businesses to move from their current position of service industry to manufacturing. The product that I am producing is a direct replacement for a product that was once produced in the UK till the manufacturer was bought by an EU based business, production was transferred to China, imported to the EU, slapped with a CE mark and slick marketing that suggests that it is but does not state that it is EU made using a name that the customers know and trust... As it happens the new Chinese unit is junk, the UK manufacturer has been reduced to being a parts warehouse and the staff just take and dispatch orders for spare parts.... If returning manufacturing to the UK isn't a benefit of Brexit, then I don't know what is... Perhaps you are fine with your kids sitting in a cubicle with a headset stuck to their heads all day.

 

Care workers are indeed pleased to have less competition, so you can sneer all you like but it is a simple economic fact that if there is an unlimited supply of labour than there is no incentive for the companies and agencies to make an effort to retain them... Throttle off the supply of labour and employers have to look a little closer at wages and conditions in order to retain staff so that they can fulfill their contracts... The days of treating your staff like shit are coming to an end. Not a good time for middle managers though.

Why don’t you expect me to understand? Perhaps you’d find it easier to convince people if you didn’t feel the need to insult them simply for disagreeing with you.

 

Yes, making it more difficult or more expensive to import things may mean things are manufactured in the UK instead, but that would require the capacity to exist here already. There are many companies already relying on EU sources that will struggle and the existing UK based capacity in some sectors will be unable to scale up anywhere near fast enough to support the change you think should happen. You can make your sneering comments about companies importing and modifying/rebadging cheap products, but they’re employing actual people who need those jobs. Your sense of superiority isn’t going to feed their kids (in fact, if your company is small enough that four prototypes counts as a field trial, you’re not going to be helping to feed many kids at all).

 

Your answer above doesn’t really address why you couldn’t have done this while we were in the EU. Unless your product can’t stand up against cheaper, inferior competitors?

 

The care workers I know haven’t been worried about competition for jobs for many years. They’re over-worked and underpaid. The shortage of workers in the sector has done nothing to improve their pay or working conditions, and they don’t expect brexit to change that, other than to increase an already unmanageable workload if it affects employers ability to hire in any way.
 

And why you think a headset and a cubicle is somehow worse than a factory production line, is beyond me. It’s just snobbery, but you’ve convinced yourself it’s not because of your old-fashioned, romanticised view of manufacturing.

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23 hours ago, kayser540 said:


Yep if the good hadn’t cleared customs by 31st then will not have the correct paperwork now to clear customs and will be rejected and sent back.. They will need to be sent out again as Duty At Place.. 

 

Yes agree.  If we assume the boots were ordered on 26 December 2020.  Then 2 days to arrive, they would have been delivered on or before 31 December 2020.

 

I'm waiting for an eBay parcel that was posted at a post office, less than 10 miles from where I live, since 21 January 2021.  The tracker yesterday was showing, it is still at the post office (today it will not give me any information, hopefully it will arrive today).  Is this due to Brexit?  

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23 hours ago, kayser540 said:


This will always be a benefit to the U.K. as any decision will not need discussion/approval of all 27 block.. Although talking to a customer from Zalando Germany, Germany has negotiated its own deal aswell as the EU deal. 
 

from what he has told me every country is free to negotiate its own vaccine deal but it was done as a collective to show unity and keep the cost down.. not sure how much of that is true.. 

 

Yes correct but a lot of the block trusted the EU for them to do the deal.  I don't know the answer to this, but did Germany knew the block was making a mess of it, hence thought we will be better and use the emergency powers/approval instead?  Again don't know the answer to this.  Would the EU have been in a better position to lie about AstraZeneca, stop further use of the vaccine, after the emergency approval was removed?

 

The Government was criticised a lot for not working collectively with an EU vaccine deal.  As we have a few James O'Brien's fans (video and quotes) on here.  Even he admitted last week, that he was wrong on this one 

Edited by nealpina

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22 hours ago, Paddy O'Furniture said:

was a direct consequence of being in the EU as there was an influx of Eastern European drivers who were prepared to work for lower wages, hence driving down pay rates.

 

20 hours ago, DennisCooper said:

 

Hi Paddy,

 

Who exactly was offering lower wages? That's right, it's businesses here in the UK, the drivers from other countries came here and filled the jobs. You should be directing your anger to the companies and their bosses who decided to pay a lower wage. If British Drivers turned their noses up at the pay on offer, that's their fault. Same with the other sectors where this is mentioned, the workers from the EU didn't come over and then say, oh don't pay us £13p/h, pay us £8 p/h ! 

 

 

11 hours ago, Karl said:

Can you blame the employer for recognising that there is a glut of labour and so offer lower pay and/or lesser conditions? This is exactly what has happened... Cut off the supply of endless labour and employers have to once again consider how they can retain their staff... Usually, improved wages and conditions are a good start.... There is no shortage of drivers, plumbers, wig wam winders.... There is a shortage of monkeys wo are willing to work for peanuts... If a driver discovers that he can earn more money stacking shelves at Aldi, he would be foolish not to do that.

 

It's basic Economics.  It's called surplus of labour.  I would think that every example of a surplus of labour in non-pandemic/peacetime, will show wages do drop when there is a surplus of labour.  Could be one of the few things Economist will agree on 

Edited by nealpina

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46 minutes ago, Spandex said:

And why you think a headset and a cubicle is somehow worse than a factory production line, is beyond me. It’s just snobbery, but you’ve convinced yourself it’s not because of your old-fashioned, romanticised view of manufacturing.

 

I disagree.  Nissan are embracing Brexit

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1 hour ago, nealpina said:

 

Yes agree.  If we assume the boots were ordered on 26 December 2020.  Then 2 days to arrive, they would have been delivered on or before 31 December 2020.

 

I'm waiting for an eBay parcel that was posted at a post office, less than 10 miles from where I live, since 21 January 2021.  The tracker yesterday was showing, it is still at the post office (today it will not give me any information, hopefully it will arrive today).  Is this due to Brexit?  


your comparison is totally wrong, your eBay parcel has clearly gotten lost and doesn’t/didn’t need any additional paperwork and is also with the U.K... 

 

The movement of goods between the U.K. and Europe towards the end of December increased 10 folds due to everyone wanted to get goods in and out the country before the 31st deadline.. if you look at what’s happened from the 1st of Jan this was justified.. 

 

If we go back to the boots which say were posted on the 26 it would have been in a massive backlog created by Brexit.. 

 

The service it would have been posted would have been redundant on the 31st so there would be no reason for the courier to proceed and would be returned to sender.. 

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1 hour ago, nealpina said:

 

I disagree.  Nissan are embracing Brexit

You've lost me... What does that have to do with Karls view of manufacturing vs service jobs?

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8 minutes ago, kayser540 said:

your comparison is totally wrong, your eBay parcel has clearly gotten lost and doesn’t/didn’t need any additional paperwork and is also with the U.K... 

 

The post office has publicly admitted there is a backlog due to the pandemic.   clearly lost, please explain that assumption?  

 

So trucks were not delayed due to the pandemic throughout Christmas week?

Edited by nealpina

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2 minutes ago, Spandex said:

You've lost me... What does that have to do with Karls view of manufacturing vs service jobs?

 

Just pointing out a manufacturing benefit.  As you asked several times 

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3 minutes ago, nealpina said:

 

Just pointing out a manufacturing benefit.  As you asked several times 

You didn't point out a manufacturing benefit. You pointed out a company that is already here, employing thousands, that isn't planning on leaving because of brexit. If Nissan being in the UK is a success, then it's a success we had before brexit. 

 

 

As I keep saying, a company staying in the UK and carrying on the same as it was is not a sign of success for brexit.

 

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1 minute ago, Spandex said:

You didn't point out a manufacturing benefit. You pointed out a company that is already here, employing thousands, that isn't planning on leaving because of brexit. If Nissan being in the UK is a success, then it's a success we had before brexit. 

 

 

As I keep saying, a company staying in the UK and carrying on the same as it was is not a sign of success for brexit.

 

 

So you are unaware of this then.  This is also a remain newspaper

 

Brexit has given competitive edge on car battery tariffs, says Nissan chief | Nissan | The Guardian

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7 minutes ago, nealpina said:

 

So you are unaware of this then.  This is also a remain newspaper

 

Brexit has given competitive edge on car battery tariffs, says Nissan chief | Nissan | The Guardian

 

Fair enough. This is definitely a benefit for Nissan.

 

I'm happy to see upsides wherever I can find them, but I'm concerned that they appear to be few and far between (so keep them coming if you have more of them). Obviously it is normal to look for examples to back up a point you're making, but it's dangerous to start imagining that individual examples equal a trend.

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24 minutes ago, nealpina said:

 

The post office has publicly admitted there is a backlog due to the pandemic.   clearly lost, please explain that assumption?  

 

So trucks were not delayed due to the pandemic throughout Christmas week?

 

Where are you going with this? Is the hope that you can convince someone that a pair of boots being delayed was all down to Covid rather than brexit, at which point we all forget about the massive amount of information out there showing the delays being directly caused by brexit?

 

As I just said above, pinning your hopes on individual examples is dangerous. One pair of boots isn't the problem, so arguing about them is pointless. It doesn't change the facts. 

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6 minutes ago, nealpina said:

 

The post office has publicly admitted there is a backlog due to the pandemic.   clearly lost, please explain that assumption?  

 

So trucks were not delayed due to the pandemic throughout Christmas week?


I’m not saying Your U.K. to U.K. parcel hasn’t yet been delivered to you due to Brexit, where have I said it’s due to Brexit? I said it’s probably lost.. I was talking about traffic in and out of the U.K... 

 

Between 24 of December to 1st of January it is usually quite and used by the couriers to clear the Xmas backlog,  what’s changed this year was between this time the couriers and hauliers saw a significant increase of goods in and out of U.K. due to the changes coming into force on the 31st December as everyone wanted to avoid this.. 

 

The trucks were delayed by France due to the pandemic no one can deny that but also the large volumes of goods leaving the U.K. were as a direct result of the changes coming in on the 31st. 
 

we shipped 70 HGVs full of goods between 20th and 24th of December, the average we would ship at this time is usually 2.. 

 

Brexit was suppose to clear red tape, people still can’t ship goods into Europe due to red tape!! 
 

 

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5 minutes ago, Spandex said:

 

Where are you going with this? Is the hope that you can convince someone that a pair of boots being delayed was all down to Covid rather than brexit, at which point we all forget about the massive amount of information out there showing the delays being directly caused by brexit? 

 

I think kayser540 has confirmed my earlier point

 

2 minutes ago, kayser540 said:

The trucks were delayed by France due to the pandemic no one can deny that

 

 

6 minutes ago, Spandex said:

As I just said above, pinning your hopes on individual examples is dangerous.

 

That's borderline patronising (as you said it twice consecutively)  The more you say something doesn't mean it is true.  Likewise when I have said several times the benefits will take some time to appear  

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