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Stressed

Just bought a G31 520d MHt (mild hybrid)

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It’s going to be a couple more years before I change, maybe the look will grow on me. I do admit that the more I see it, the less silly it looks.

Equally the more I see car interiors becoming digital, the more I miss the E46 era......

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On 8/6/2020 at 7:43 PM, Stressed said:

I really hope it does make it smoother, I turn it off as soon as I start on my F11. I don't think you can turn it off on the new car!

You should be ablet to turn it off - there's a button underneath the starter button for this. Or edit your driving mode to disable (when you put it into the standard Sport mode it disables start / stop).

Edited by Jonhamil
Addition.

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55 minutes ago, Jonhamil said:

You should be ablet to turn it off - there's a button underneath the starter button for this. Or edit your driving mode to disable (when you put it into the standard Sport mode it disables start / stop).

There is NOT an off button under the start on the MHT cars. This is the same for petrol and diesel 

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18 hours ago, Stressed said:

There is NOT an off button under the start on the MHT cars. This is the same for petrol and diesel 

Ah ok - that must mean that mine is not mild hybrid.. That's odd as I thought all of the G chassis 5 series were?

IMG_9619.JPG

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8 hours ago, Jonhamil said:

Ah ok - that must mean that mine is not mild hybrid.. That's odd as I thought all of the G chassis 5 series were?

IMG_9619.JPG

 

No the Mild Hybrid functions were a LCI addition I think.

 

The physical ring surrounds on your dials are also gone as of ~2018 i think!

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Any comment about the brake feel of the 520d with mild hybrid? I got F10 and a new G31 pre-LCI 520d with mild hybrid. Compare these two, the mild hybrid one has (won't say terrible) worse brake feel to the F10. 

 

@Stressed, your other thread memtioned about brake and software update, do you have any comparison to non-mild hybrid one?

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The software update improved the feel of the brakes on my MHT 520d. They still don't feel the same as my 520d F11. BUT the 2 cars have completely different systems. The F11 is standard servo assisted brakes. The G30 MHT has a different servo and because of the MHT and coast function of the gear box, they claim the brakes have a different feel because when the coast function is activated, the servo effectively isn't working because the engine os off so there is no vacuum 

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2 hours ago, Stressed said:

The software update improved the feel of the brakes on my MHT 520d. They still don't feel the same as my 520d F11. BUT the 2 cars have completely different systems. The F11 is standard servo assisted brakes. The G30 MHT has a different servo and because of the MHT and coast function of the gear box, they claim the brakes have a different feel because when the coast function is activated, the servo effectively isn't working because the engine os off so there is no vacuum 

I understand the difference and don't expect the feeling to be the same. The brake feel of my f10 is quite firm and easy to control whereas the G31 is quite spongy. I'm happy with the brake force but combining the spongy feeling with the energy recovery of the MHT, it's just slightly harder to slow down smoothly compared to F10. Maybe I should just drive the G31 and leave the F10 to my wife so that my muscle can get used to the feeling. 

Do you think the SW update worth it though?

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I definitely feel the SW update is worth it if you are not happy with the brake feel. MHT is relatively new, therefore BMW will always be updating SW to improve the vehicle and iron out issues. I also feel with the update and new electronic gearbox oil pump the smoothness of power delivery and "pick up" on acceleration is a lot better and quieter.

 

I went from an F11 to the G31 and don't have the option to go back to compare. But once I had a few miles in the G31 I had adjusted to the brakes. The erratic height of the brake pedal was an intermittent fault. Once I had the SW update the brake feel was completely different (in a good way). I also had a fault with the electronic oil pump in the gearbox which effectively switch off the MHT energy recovery until fixed.. The pump has been replaced and a "whole car" SW update done. Now I would describe the G31 braking as different to the F11 but NOT better or worse, just different. Swapping between my G31 and my wife's F21 1 series I have far more trouble remembering the clutch and adjusting to the feel of the brakes.

 

There may also be differences in driving styles. I'm ex fire service Blue light advanced diver and ex advanced motorcycle instructor which tends to mean I don't brake a lot with advance forward planning. I think this might have been why it took a few months of ownership before I returned the car with the "fault". BMW claim it's not a fault but a difference in how the whole braking and MHT system work hampered to the F11.

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4 hours ago, Stressed said:

I definitely feel the SW update is worth it if you are not happy with the brake feel. MHT is relatively new, therefore BMW will always be updating SW to improve the vehicle and iron out issues. I also feel with the update and new electronic gearbox oil pump the smoothness of power delivery and "pick up" on acceleration is a lot better and quieter.

 

I went from an F11 to the G31 and don't have the option to go back to compare. But once I had a few miles in the G31 I had adjusted to the brakes. The erratic height of the brake pedal was an intermittent fault. Once I had the SW update the brake feel was completely different (in a good way). I also had a fault with the electronic oil pump in the gearbox which effectively switch off the MHT energy recovery until fixed.. The pump has been replaced and a "whole car" SW update done. Now I would describe the G31 braking as different to the F11 but NOT better or worse, just different. Swapping between my G31 and my wife's F21 1 series I have far more trouble remembering the clutch and adjusting to the feel of the brakes.

 

There may also be differences in driving styles. I'm ex fire service Blue light advanced diver and ex advanced motorcycle instructor which tends to mean I don't brake a lot with advance forward planning. I think this might have been why it took a few months of ownership before I returned the car with the "fault". BMW claim it's not a fault but a difference in how the whole braking and MHT system work hampered to the F11.

I'm using the MHT energy recovery to slow down a lot as well. It's just the last phase of stopping till standstill is not very smooth. Personal thought is that while the gearbox drop the last one or two gears, the rate of energy recovery plus the engine/mechanical drag is changing a lot. Hence, my foot should compensate the brake force so that the overall stopping force remains (ideally) constant. But, the spongy brake feeling makes the adjustment harder as it sorts of blurry the boundary between more brake force and less brake force. Anyway, I will try to see whether I can let the dealer update the SW. Thanks for your description.

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What you are describing sounds very similar to what I felt. That sensation has definitely been improved since the SW update. The energy recovery definitely gives the feel of engine braking in a manual diesel car. I am sure you would notice and improvement. 

When standing in the dealers saying this feels like brake failure they took the car in and with a few stern words about my car being essential for work a hire car was delivered that night via BMW assist and their contract with Enterprise.

 

My advice would be to take it in and be "forceful" with your description (feels like brake failure) with and erratic height to the brake pedal..

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Thanks for the advice. I will just use your word, feels like brake failure, plus concern on the safety of the vehicle. Haha. But obviously, I will need to wait for the lockdown ease.

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On 11/01/2021 at 18:49, q96169we said:

Any comment about the brake feel of the 520d with mild hybrid? I got F10 and a new G31 pre-LCI 520d with mild hybrid. Compare these two, the mild hybrid one has (won't say terrible) worse brake feel to the F10. 

 

@Stressed, your other thread memtioned about brake and software update, do you have any comparison to non-mild hybrid one?

I have a 540i MHT and find the brakes a bit snatchy - put this down to the transition from energy recovery to brake pads when pressing harder on the pedal .... not spongy at all !

Edited by SJL

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20 minutes ago, SJL said:

I have a 540i MHT and find the brakes a bit snatchy - put this down to the transition from energy recovery to brake pads when pressing harder on the pedal .... not spongy at all !

Well, mine is slightly opposite. Pressing hard on the pedal is alright. The brake force is there and because of the brake force is relatively stronger overall, the minor change of MHT energy recovery can actually be ignored. Therefore, the brake is actually smoother. It is just when I gently slow down to standstill, the percentage of overall stopping power from the MHT energy recovery is higher so when the recovery rate is changing, I try to compensate by minor adjustment on the pedal. At this point, the feedback from the pedal is not clear (what I described as spongy feeling) so that the adjustment is harder.

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On 1/5/2021 at 3:44 PM, Stressed said:

Bmw started the MHT on the 520d for the 2019/20 model pre LCI. I believe all models in LCI for are now MHT

Ok - interesting. Mine's a 530d - this is the speedo in eco mode - is this not mild hybrid?

IMG_9635.JPG

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2 hours ago, Jonhamil said:

Ok - interesting. Mine's a 530d - this is the speedo in eco mode - is this not mild hybrid?

IMG_9635.JPG

No - your car has the older type dials, so will be the 265hp 530d without MHT. That Eco Pro view is standard on all models with those dials 

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9 hours ago, Robster75 said:

Hi Stressed, do you have Android auto on your car ? 

I'm not sure! I do have and use Apple car play and have never looked for The Android auto!

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Can i just point out two things as there seems to be confusion. Only post September 2019 cars have Mild Hybrid Technology and even then that was limited to 520'd to begin with. If you have anything older than a 69 plate care, you will not have MHT

 

The OTA Software would not affect the feel of the brakes or the brake pedal

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1 hour ago, sjak92 said:

 

 

The OTA Software would not affect the feel of the brakes or the brake pedal

I does effect the feel of the brakes. Or the braking characteristics when you push the brake pedal. I know this from how the brakes changed on my car after the software update and have the description of how the brake feel is effected by the MHT coast facility from BMW Germany that was sent via email to the dealers. 

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This is part of what was sent by BMW

 

Once you have confirmed no fault is present with your testing please consider the following when talking to the customer. I have been in contact with my colleagues in Germany who have confirmed that the vehicle operation is a characteristic of the mild hybrid operation. The braking forces are changed during the different phases of the operation in the vehicle due to the assistance provided by other components. So during coasting all assistance provided normally via gearbox is turned off due to the decoupling that allows the coasting function to allow the vehicle to travel further. With this happening the DSC unit that provides the pedal assistance needs to act more as there is no gearbox assistance, this is carried out by increasing the braking pressure on the brake system side of the vehicle. At this point there is no vacuum pump assistance as the engine is off and this is why pedal movement can feel like it changes but full braking effect is achieved. The vehicle has been tested to confirm there is no issue with the braking system and that other vehicles operate in the same fashion so I am happy to say that there is no fault found with this case. The complaint has been down to a change in vehicle production. Customer education will be required for this case. I was considering how it could be explained easier I think it makes sense to explain the system to the customer in the "energy flow" display of the CID. This makes it possible to understand the system behaviour and when assistance can or cannot be provided by the gearbox.

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As with other issues BMW do software updates WITHOUT admitting there is a fault. If they admitted there was a fault it would mean a recall.

 

After BMW sent the above email to the dealer they then advised the dealer to do that latest software update stating that customers would feel a difference in the braking.

 

When the vehicle was returned the brakes had a completely different feel to before the update. The feel was that different if I hadn't known it was my car I would have thought I was driving a different model.

 

I friend had the software update done on his X3 and also noticed a difference in brake feel. His car was taken in because of what was describe as an over zealous emergency brake assist. BMW claimed No Fault found but still did a software update as well!

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3 hours ago, sjak92 said:

Can i just point out two things as there seems to be confusion. Only post September 2019 cars have Mild Hybrid Technology and even then that was limited to 520'd to begin with. If you have anything older than a 69 plate care, you will not have MHT

 

The OTA Software would not affect the feel of the brakes or the brake pedal

Just to say that Stressed's firmware update is not OTA. It's dealer software update. You need to physically give your car to dealer to update the software. Pre-LCI 520d can have iDrive7 but it is cut down version. The main thing it's missing is the OTA. In other word, for pre-LCI G3x 5 series, even if you have idrive 7.0 system, you still don't have OTA ability at least so far. I saw your profile says you have the G05 X5. G05 X5 has the full iDrive 7 so it can do OTA.

 

About the MHT, you are correct. For pre-LCI 5 series, only 520d manufactured after late-2019 has the MHT. Type code for G31 is 12DX (for UK market). If your car is Touring and car's vin start with WBA12DX .............., then your car has the MHT. For G30, the type code seems to be 12DW. So, vin starts with WBA12DW......... should have MHT. Don't know the type code for x-drive car as never looked into those (maybe same, maybe different). All other pre-LCI models do not have the MHT until LCI.

Edited by q96169we

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