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Hi, 

 

I'm really hoping some of the experts out there can help me out.

 

My M535I wasn't running as it should and was sometimes missing when accelerating. In order to address this I first of all changed the air flow meter which made no difference at all.

 

I then decided to change the distributor cap and rotor.  As part of this process I removed the whole distributor to give it a clean. I then put everything back together as it was (or I think I have) but the car just wont start.  First of all I put the old distributor cap and rotor back thinking they are the only parts I've changed, but it still wouldnt start.  I then tested that all the spark plugs are getting spark, which they are.

 

Therefore, I'm looking for ideas on what to test next.

 

Would I be right in saying that as the spark plus are getting spark, it cant be an issue with the electric coil or distributor? Or could either of those still possibly be the problem?

 

I have taken a video of trying to start the car which shows the distributor etc, but dont seem to be able to upload videos.

 

Any help or advice anyone can offer would be greatly appreciated as I'm really struggling. 

 

Thanks!

Screenshot_20200607-164843_Video Player.jpg

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Hi PatMo

 I suggested the pulse transmitter because I thought you were having intermittent problems and then no start. From your post you have no start but you have a spark at the plugs.

If you have a spark at the plugs then the ignition side is working. By removing the distributor you have possibly changed the ignition timing so the first thing to check is the static timing.

Turn the engine by a spanner on the crankshaft (clockwise) until the mark on the crankshaft pulley (O/T) is  opposite the fixed mark on the front cover. This is top dead centre. To check it is on the compression stroke remove the valve cover and check the camshaft lobes of number one cylinder (the front of engine), both lobes should be facing down.

The rotor arm should be pointing to number one terminal on the distributor cap. There should be a mark on the distributor body. Then check the rotation of the rotor it should point to 1 then next is 5,3,6,2,4. Check to make sure the leads are correct.

By checking this you are making sure that the spark is at the right time in the cycle. If it is then you are looking for a fuel or air problem.

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Thanks for your help and advice, your theory makes sense.

 

I have removed the value cover and this is what I've found.

Sorry to ask what I'm sure are straight forward questions to others, but how do I turn the engine by a spanner? I'm concerned about causing more harm than good here so want to make sure I'm doing it correctly!

I've already checked the that the leads are in the correct order so they are fine, and I've got the firing order of 153624 correct.

 

Again thanks for your help with this!

 

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A picture from the internet. The crankshaft nut is the large (36mm)nut in the centre of the circle of smaller nuts. Turning clockwise rotates the engine.

From the picture I find it difficult to see both lobes clearly.

If you look at the photo with the crankshaft nut you will see a mark on the front casing above the pulley. There is also white paint on the pulley for the timing mark.

When you are at top dead centre on the compression stroke you should see a mark on this pulley with OT on it. The mark must line up with the mark on the aluminium cover.

The lobes of the crankshaft on number one cylinder point down so the valves are closed. Number six should be on the overlap or what was called "rocking". The camshaft lobes form a "V" The exhaust lobe points to the right and the inlet points to the left (As viewed in your photo). When this is correct then the rotor arm should point to number 1 coil lead. There may be a notch on the distributor body under a dust shield if fitted.

In your photo the exhaust lobe looks close but unlike looking directly I find it hard to tell.

If all lines up as stated then the static ignition is correct so it should try to start.

You could put up pictures of this to check if you want.

M30 Engine 2.jpg

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Thank you.

 

I have attached some hopefully clearer pictures of the lobes.

 

In order to get the crankshaft nut will I have to remove the radiator? As theres no way of seeing what's down there

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Edited by PatMo

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From your photos I thought it looked incorrect. I have modified your photo to show how it is wrong. Also is a diagram of valve overlap. In your photo number 6 is not on the over lap. 

As I have said about the marks on the crankshaft pulley they are there to set up valve timing and ignition timing. This is important! If the position in the photo is with the marks lined up then the valve timing is incorrect.

You should be able to get a socket on the crankshaft nut without removing the radiator.1360405350_M535itiming.thumb.jpg.bf33b3026b75ea451b8b8e4e69bb711f.jpg

valve overlap.jpg

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Thanks.

 

I cant proceed any further at the moment until I can get to the crankshaft nut. 

 

I'll report back when I've managed to turn it.

 

Cheers

Edited by PatMo

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Thank you. I've got a 36mm socket ordered but still not sure I'm going to be able to get to crankshaft bolt with the fan and radiator in the way! 

 

I'll give it a go and report back.

 

Thanks 

 

 

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Ok, so after a real battle getting a socket on the crankshaft nut I have managed to to rotate the engine.

 

The bolt is now in line with the casting mark on your photo.

 

I've attached a few photos and would really welcome your comments.

 

If there any other photos etc i can provide to assist please just ask.

 

Again I am so grateful for your help.

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From the photo the valve timing looks incorrect but photo may be deceptive. Rotate the crankshaft until the OT mark lines up with the mark on the front case. Take a photo of the positions then and where the rotor is pointing on the distributor. The crankshaft mark lined up, then the bolt should line up with the casting on the head and the rotor pointing to number 1 on the distributor. That is how the timing should be. Valve timing and ignition timing at correct static positions.

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Ok, I have rotated the crankshaft nut again until the OT mark lines up, and taken photos again. 

Hope the photos are ok, if not please do say.

 

Thanks 

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From your last photos you are 180 degrees out. I do not think you understand what I have said. In the last photos what I see is:-

The crankshaft is at top dead centre. The OT mark lines up correctly but the camshaft is not in the correct position. It is 180 degrees out. Number 1 lobes are not pointing down and number 6 is not on the overlap (as I said it is called rocking which if you look you will see why, as at that point turning the engine either way will cause the valves on no 6 to open the lobe form a "V")

The distributor appears to be pointing at number 1. 

 

What you need to do:- 

Rotate the engine crankshaft again until the marks (OT) line up. Make sure that the camshaft no.1 lobes pointing down no. 6 "rocking. distributor pointing to number terminal.

Remove that cover under the rotor arm and you should see the mark on the body. Take photos of this position.

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Ok, i will try again tomorrow.

 

Apologies for not quite grasping this.

 

Just to confirm I need to keep rotating the crankshaft all the way around again until the OT mark lines up again, but keep repeating this until the lobes are in the correct position (I'm guessing this might take a few turns or the camshaft).

 

I was thinking I just need to line up the OT mark once and the lobes would automatically be in the correct place.

 

Thanks for bearing with me!

 

 

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Hi Pat,

 

If I am teaching you to suck eggs then I apologise from the get go, but:

 

The camshaft rotates once for every two turns of the crankshaft, so as to fit in the 4 strokes of the piston (suck, squeeze, bang, blow)This ensures the camshaft only opens / closes the valves for the blow and suck strokes of the piston (two out of four strokes).

 

The next step is to ensure the distributor is aligned with the start of the bank stroke and not the suck stroke along with matching it to the correct piston.

 

Hopefully this will add a little clarity for you.

 

Stay safe and have a good weekend.

 

Best regards,

 

Mick

 

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Hi Mick

 

As you can see from previous posts I'm in need of all of the help I can get, so your input and advice is greatly appreciated!

 

I will rotate it again tomorrow and hope fully get the lobes in the correct position.

 

I will then no doubt need some help with the distributor, and how to properly align it.

 

Thanks for you post and help.

 

Stay safe

 

Thanks

 

Pat

 

 

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I have rotated the crankshaft again and have now ensured that the 1st lobe is pointing downwards, so hoping that's all correct.

 

I have removed the the cover over the rotor arm on the distributor and this is what I'm looking at.

 

Does this look right?

 

Thanks 

20200614_002734.jpg

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That is correct. If you put the rotor arm on the centre of the brass part should be opposite that notch.

 

You have not shown where the OT mark. No picture of the camshaft marks. From the previous photos the camshaft marks will not line up. Your camshaft timing is not as BMW specified. It looks to be a few degrees advanced. How much could be measured.

I am making an assumption that the car ran before hand. Advancing a cam can improve mid range acceleration and may have been deliberate.

As you have seen it takes two turns of the crankshaft for one turn of the camshaft. It is possible (and has been done) to have the valve or ignition timing 180 degrees out.

If you look at the photo you can see the pistons of an engine at top dead centre. You can see that two pistons are at the top 1 and 4 (4 cylinder engine) In your engine (6 cylinder) number 1 and 6 are at the top. Number one is at the firing point and number 6 has pushed all of the gases out of the exhaust.

So with regard to your engine you have checked the valve timing (which has more advance than standard) Ignition timing is in the correct static timing.

You should now start the car and set the ignition timing with the engine running.

 

But............... it does not start. So check again that the spark plugs have a spark by removing them and placing on the valve cover or good earth. Do not hold them in your hand as you could get quite a shock of them.

You then know that it is not a spark issue. There is spark and it is at the right time (basic). So the next check is for fuel and air.

 

Next thing is to check, is the fuel pump is running. When trying to start the car go to the back of the car on the right hand side on the inside of the wheel you should hear the pump running.

It is also possible to check the pump by sending 12v+ to terminal 88d Green/ violet wire on the combination relay which should be mounted on the LHS wing beside the coolant reservoir.

It can also be done by moving the  flap on the air flow meter but try easy way first.

One thing to make sure is that the rotor is correctly seated when installing. 

e12 distributor notch 2.jpg

Top dead centre.jpg

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This is where the points on the distributor cable are lined up to.

 

I can see the small notch which I've circled, but don't understand the where this should line up to

20200614_132317.jpg

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I can only go from the photos but it appears that you have mixed up your leads. I have pointed out that the rotor should point to number number 1 plug on the distributor. On your last photo the rotor is pointing to number 1 (when it is put back on) and the marks are all ok.

Now the numbers you have used do not relate to the ignition timing. This is where you are going wrong. Do not use the metal spikes as reference. It is the rotor that is important.

 Looking at your previous photo your lead marked 1  is in fact number 6. Your ignition timing is 180 degrees out

Look at the photos I include.

Rotor is pointing at number 1 plug on the distributor so number one plug lead goes to number 1 spark plug.

Turning clockwise the leads should be 5 then 3 then 6 then 2 then 4 then back to 1 again.

 

To be clear the plug leads are in the wrong order so no start or very poor running

If it is not clear then we can go though the leads one by one.

Incorrect timing.jpg

e12 distributor timing 2.jpg

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I realise I have made a stupid error there, really annoyed at myself for that. Thanks for pointing it out.

 

The car now starts with a little push on the accelerator, but it stutters and then cuts out after a short while of idling. 

 

I have previously changed the mass air flow so that shouldn't be the issue.

 

I've also noticed alot of heat coming from below the camshaft housing, which is worrying.

 

I really need to get it to a garage but am worried about doing more damage by driving it there. 

 

 

 

 

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