Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
G Whizz

Keyless access break in

Recommended Posts

To be fair the whole terminology is really incorrect. 
In all cases, you still have to have the “key” with you whether it’s “keyless entry” or “keyless go”

If “keyless go” cars are truly safe from relay theft, then I will have two faraday pouches FTAGH 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, CFD said:

My point exactly!

 

When the media report relay theft they use the blanket term of keyless - but thats far too vague.


there is no to ways about it though. 
 

go is go as in start a car, entry, well it’s very self explanatory. 
 

comfort access is keyless entry, all cars have keyless go. 
 

when buying my X5, AXA, who quoted me on insurance, insisted they will not insure a comfort access X5 for me. This was in combination with me being 27 and a London postcode. But this did not mean keyless go. In fact every new BMW is keyless go. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, sjak92 said:


there is no to ways about it though. 
 

go is go as in start a car, entry, well it’s very self explanatory. 
 

comfort access is keyless entry, all cars have keyless go. 
 

when buying my X5, AXA, who quoted me on insurance, insisted they will not insure a comfort access X5 for me. This was in combination with me being 27 and a London postcode. But this did not mean keyless go. In fact every new BMW is keyless go. 

Me and you don't always agree but on this we're 100% in alignment

 

I'm sure your insurance is a fuckton on your x5 if you're 27, hope you have decent no claims!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, CFD said:

Me and you don't always agree but on this we're 100% in alignment

 

I'm sure your insurance is a fuckton on your x5 if you're 27, hope you have decent no claims!

It’s not tragic, £1090 a year 

 

520d was £600 mind you. That’s with 4 years NCB

Edited by sjak92

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/11/2020 at 8:17 PM, sjak92 said:

when buying my X5, AXA, who quoted me on insurance, insisted they will not insure a comfort access X5 for me. This was in combination with me being 27 and a London postcode. But this did not mean keyless go. In fact every new BMW is keyless go. 

In the recent Thatcham tests for measures against ‘keyless relay attack’ BMW gained the highest standard - Superior - They tested an X6 and 2 Series, as other latest models have the same ‘resting key’ system presumably they are ‘Superior’ too

 

http://news.thatcham.org/pressreleases/improving-trend-but-more-work-to-do-as-13-new-cars-awarded-mix-of-superior-basic-and-poor-security-ratings-2977934

 

AXA should reflect that, if that was the real reason, although I suspect it being an X5 and  London postcode were the real reasons !

 

https://www.insurancefactory.co.uk/news/April-2015/bmw-x5-the-uks-most-stolen-car-for-the-6th-year-in

 

 

455C3772-A865-4E6F-A56F-0942C39A10E8.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/03/2020 at 20:17, sjak92 said:


there is no to ways about it though. 
 

go is go as in start a car, entry, well it’s very self explanatory. 
 

comfort access is keyless entry, all cars have keyless go. 

 

This. Rreports of 'keyless car thefts' refer to cars where you don't have to touch your key/press a button to open the car. They won't say "comfort access" because not all manufacturers use that name. Keyless entry seems to be the more widely used term.

 

If you have a BMW, without comfort access, they can't get in without force - breaking a window for instance. Once in, they could boost the signal to start the car but I haven't seen any cases of that. Seems a bit counter productive to have to physically break windows when the aim of the keyless thief is to get in and out in silence and without disturbance.

 

If you have a key made after April 2018, it turns off the signal once sitting still after a few minutes. 

 

For a real deterrent, get something physical and visible like a Stoplock, disklock or whatever you prefer. I stopped using mine on my G30 as it was 2 years old and if it got stolen my GAP insurance would have seen me quids in. I recently traded that in for a new X6 and am back to using the stoplock on the X6 now. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its the same as its been for years with or without remote access or remote keys, if someone wants your car, especially if its a proefessional steal to order team then they will steal it.

 

If someone steals mine I just do not want it back 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/03/2020 at 14:19, CFD said:

Talking aloud - if you wanted to test it leave one key in your car and have your other with you. Lock your car with the key you have with you and then pull the door handle - surely that won't work? The car will know a key is inside for starting the car, but not for opening the doors.

 

My F11 would not lock with a key inside ! found this out the day I picked the car up ..... sales rep didn't know why it wouldn't lock!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, SJL said:

 

My F11 would not lock with a key inside ! found this out the day I picked the car up ..... sales rep didn't know why it wouldn't lock!


My G31 does. My wife locked me in when she went shopping in ASDA a few weeks ago and although I had my key in my pocket I couldn’t get out. :wacko:

Edited by Boba

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Boba said:


My G31 does. My wife locked me in when she went shopping in ASDA a few weeks ago and although I had my key in my pocket I couldn’t get out. :wacko:

I now have visions of you sat in the boot, alongside the dog...!:lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, jonbee said:

Why didn't the alarm go off? 


that’s an interesting question - I don’t know. Perhaps it doesn’t set if it detects motion within the car or occupation of front seats? But I was sat there for over an hour without the alarm tripping.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Double press on the lock button (I know multiple people that do this thinking it’s just to make sure it’s locked) disables motion sensor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, sjak92 said:

Double press on the lock button (I know multiple people that do this thinking it’s just to make sure it’s locked) disables motion sensor.

 

Didn't know that (never RTFM of course).

My wife just locked it by touching the door handle, not the key. Does this also disable the motion sensor if done more than once?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Didn't realise that the thefts only effect keyless go cars :blink:

 

I still store my keys in a pouch though....

Edited by Y15HAL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Y15HAL said:

Didn't realise that the thefts only effect keyless go cars :blink:

 

I still store my keys in a pouch though....


No! They don’t effect keyless go!!! That’s the point 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, sjak92 said:


No! They don’t effect keyless go!!! That’s the point 

 

DOH! was meant to write keyless entry!! :| 

 

I blame the lockdown :D 

 

Still don't understand how it works fully though.....

 

If they're able to bounce/extend the signal to unlock the car, they can bounce it to start the car and drive off too? :?:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Y15HAL said:

 

DOH! was meant to write keyless entry!! :| 

 

I blame the lockdown :D 

 

Still don't understand how it works fully though.....

 

If they're able to bounce/extend the signal to unlock the car, they can bounce it to start the car and drive off too? :?:


please read above. You cannot bounce any signal from a keyless go car

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah OK, so they can't get in (unless using force), but can still get away afterwards.....

 

Still storing my keys in a Faraday and keeping the steering lock on :D 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Y15HAL said:

Ah OK, so they can't get in (unless using force), but can still get away afterwards.....

 

Still storing my keys in a Faraday and keeping the steering lock on :D 


oh lord. No, they can get in by force but cannot start the car without physical key, copy of key, or through OBD (which isn’t possible anymore) 

 

with keyless go, if key is not in car, car is not going anywhere. The signal from key cannot be bounced, tracked or intercepted. 
 

keyless go is as safe as any car with a normal key into ignition barrel and turn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, jonbee said:

When did they block the OBD start 'option'? My car was built November 2017.


not sure. It was a huge problem with E series cars. Most newer are stolen either through Keyless ENTRY where signal can be boosted (NOT KEYLESS GO!) or by scumbags physically breaking into someone’s property and taking physical keys. 
 

I haven’t seen anything on forums about OBD cloning in a long time. Therefore BMW must have patched this security flaw. Although I wouldn’t expect them to plaster this around with office press release for obvious reasons 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are "legitimate locksmith" tools out there that were used on on E series cars that have been "updated" shall we say for later models. Part of the issue is that the obd2 port has to be within certain boundaries within the vehicle.

 

That is the problem the aftermarket can sell these tools and it is upto them to verify the purchaser but beyond that it is a "free market". 

 

Keyless go still has more risk than a full on key system as the locks are an easy target should force not be used using various lock picking/skeleton tools (which tend to target vans more), but they are out there for bmw models including G series.

 

In theory force could be used and then the boosting system used on a keyless go system.

 

The reality is though fully keyless systems on cars with it are more targeted generally speaking if an owner has failed to take precautionary steps because:

1) quicker to steal

2) generally quiter during the process

3) more reliable

4) cheaper to "purchase"

5) work across multiple manufacturers

 

Number 4 is a bit open ended as these devices for boosting have been various routers through to DAB tuners....and are far more homebrew than professional tools in some cases.

 

The flipside is that for certain cars the level of violence has increased and some people wont think twice of entry to a home or intimidation to get the vehicle in question. Sadly only at this level do the police get bothered more because if their is crime against a person then that is worse ignoring the theft element for a moment.

 

Obviously I am not linking to anything. 

 

I am glad bmw have seen fit to introduce motion sensing on the latest keys, I just wish they did what other manufacturers have done as well and have facilities to disable the system entirely as well. 

Edited by Ninja59

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The above could not be any further from the truth unfortunately.
 

A Keyless Go system which you say can be intercepted, does not transmit all the time (like old comfort access did)

 

Transmission only happens when you press any button on the key. Very much the same as a Ford Mondeo from 2004 with Central Locking for example. 
 

the Keyless Go system is exactly the same as any key which you would insert into a barrel, twist and start. Both have immobilisers. The only difference is that Keyless Go is proximity (read limited distance based - try starting your car when holding your key beyond the door frame of your car, good luck) whereas old fashioned keys needed to be in the barrel - these cars also got stolen - a lot. 
 

what people seem to complete miss here - and it’s annoying as it’s been explained multiple times - is that Keyless Entry system can be boosted. This is done by grabbing a handle and requesting the car to open. The car then looks for a key and code transmission. If key is out of range, the signal is boosted and extended, a response is received and car opens. Although these systems are not so simple anymore as keys stops transmission altogether now if not moving. Key becomes dead if laying down on your kitchen worktop for example.
 

there is no way you can lock pick your way into stealing a Keyless Car. You could get inside but alarm would go off. Best you can do then is steal the steering wheel, iDrive etc etc Unless you can lock pick electrics, car is not going anywhere.

 

the truth is, no car is safe from theft entirely. If they want it, they will get it. Being practically honest, i’d much rather have a car that if it will get nicked, gets nicked in a way where I realise in the morning, rather than have some dickhead break into my house at night demanding keys. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A few months ago a friend of my son's had his internet-linked alarm trigger. He logged in from work to see two people ransacking his house. When he shouted at them through the cameras' audio link one grabbed a knife from his kitchen. They found the keys and stole his Golf R off the drive. It has never been seen again. It was on a lease deal. His insurance company paid off the finance company but he lost the deposit that he'd paid on it. His gap insurance never covered the deposit! When he spoke to the police they reckoned there would have been a third one changing the number plates whilst the other two were in his house. It's fortunate that he wasn't there at the time. At least his loss was only financial.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×