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Yuri84

BMW zf 6hp26 transmission

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Hi. Can anybody give me an advice or somebody has experiance  on installing second hand transmissions to their bmw? I am having few issues with my transmission in 530d e60 2007 pre lci. What happens is i get a jolt when driving in 2nd or 3rd gear. It happens when car is in say 3rd gear,i drive it,then let my foot of gas,car rolls,but still in gear and then i press gas again,revs go up as if it is out of gear and then it gets drive again and i feel a jolt. Transmission was rebuilt,actualy it was stripped and put together twice,because of that issue. Guys from Planet Gears think it might be TCM. They think that it doesnt get shift timings correct all the time and possibly TC lock up timing too.

There is an option to buy new TCM,but it comes with valve body as one unit and price is not cheap,so dont want to take my chance to pay 1500 plus for that.

I am thinking to maybe try and use Xhp flash to hopefully to program TCM and maybe that will help,thats option one.

Second option is buy second hand TCM and install it,but that is where i am stuck. Would it need to be programmed to my car? I was reading about fitting second hand transmission and some people say that it will need to be coded and some say it worked without coding,so where is the truth? Is there a different between swapping complete transmission or just TCM?

Really hope for some help guys,because i am getting very frustrated now. I love the car and did not hesistate to pay over 2k for transmission rebuilt,but now with this jerks and jolts,it just becomes not very nice ride and i really hope to sort it out. Been trying to get in touch with Roy from Planet Gears,but he seems to ignore me. He thinks that i am making it up,but i drove a lot cars lately with same transmission and none do same as mine,. My friend just got 2007 e60 530d with 210k on the clock and i can tell that even shift quality is nicer in his car than in mine with rebuilt box les than 15k miles ago. Basically i paid over 2k and it shifts only a tad better than before. 

Thank you.

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Hi. All of this was done when rebuilding transmission. Had all solenoids,dampers,valve body replaced too and this is reason why people who done the repair said it might be tcm.

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First things first. 

 

Have all gearbox adaptations have been reset? 

 

The car learns to adapt the best it can over time as the oil degrades. Simply installing all new parts or a whole gearbox won't help as it will still be increasing pressure to the valves until you tell it you have new stuff fitted. 

 

I have done loads of ZF6's with issues, from flaring, to going into limp mode because of poor changes, most often between 2-3 and sometimes 3-4, and in the case of one no drive at all. 

 

99% of time this has been sorted with a complete flush of oil, cooler pipe off and 15 litres or so pumped through the system til you have only clear fluid coming out, and then a adaption reset. 

 

I also find this needs doing with BMWs INPA software, I have tried it with others like Snap On and not sure it truly resets everything. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by gIzzE

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2 hours ago, gIzzE said:

First things first. 

 

Have all gearbox adaptations have been reset? 

 

The car learns to adapt the best it can over time as the oil degrades. Simply installing all new parts or a whole gearbox won't help as it will still be increasing pressure to the valves until you tell it you have new stuff fitted. 

 

I have done loads of ZF6's with issues, from flaring, to going into limp mode because of poor changes, most often between 2-3 and sometimes 3-4, and in the case of one no drive at all. 

 

99% of time this has been sorted with a complete flush of oil, cooler pipe off and 15 litres or so pumped through the system til you have only clear fluid coming out, and then a adaption reset. 

 

I also find this needs doing with BMWs INPA software, I have tried it with others like Snap On and not sure it truly resets everything. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi. Thank you for your reply. Gearbox was rebuilt by place called Planet Gears in Peterborough. Transmission had all new clutch plates,bushes,dampers,solenoids,TC rebuild. Also they replaced valve body both times they stripped gearbox. 

Also it has new heat exchanger for the transmission fluid and all lines were flushed. 

Before gearbox went in for rebuilt it had few things that were obviously wrong. First was harsh shift 1 to 2 at very low revs,for example when in traffic and rolling with brakes off is not enough,give it about 1100 revs and it slams into second,as if it doing it at wrong time and second is forced in. Also when been moving in traffic for 10 or 15 mins, 1 to 2 shift happens with revs jumping up slightly and shift is quite noticeble. Second is that jolt in 3rd gear and sometimes in second. It happens after freewheeling for a bit and the apply throttle again,transmission does what i can call a slight slip for half a second and then suddenly locks up and that can be felt even by passengers.

Third thing is when i select R,then most of the time it can be really felt,it give a kick,not always,but very often.

Because of those things it went in for a rebuild,but still there and it drives me mad especially knowing i paid over 2k for the job.

I been told that all adaptations were reset and thats standard procedure after any repairs and them being ZF specialist makes me think they should have a kit to do it.

To be honest,for the first 3k miles after the second time it was redone,it felt really good and i thought that it all been sorted,but gradually it all came back to how it was before any work done to it and shits in some gears are not as nice as they should be. I would cope with that if it would never been rebuilt,then fair enough,its high miles,cant expect it to be as smooth as new. I even could close my eyes on some shifts not being soft every time,but this bloody jerks and kicks and bumps,they are horrible. I thought that maybe its how these 6hp are working,but tried few bmw's with this transmission and those are smooth as silk,no jolts,really nice to drive.

Sorry for long write up.

I scanned car last night and checked out adaptation values and attaching them to this post.

Maybe you could have a look at them and maybe you can advice me something.

Thank you for replying.

Screenshot_20200213_154845_com.autel.maxiap200.autelap.jpg

Screenshot_20200213_154921_com.autel.maxiap200.autelap.jpg

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Hmmm?

 

Those values look fine to me. 

 

I have seen then with 600bar or higher and still not any massive clunks or anything. 

 

 

 

If they are a ZF specialist they will be able to reset everything properly. 

 

 

I would look at resetting again and then driving for a while steadily and following the procedure, somewhere without much traffic if possible. 

 

 

 

 

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What about clutch C rapid filling times? Look high at 12 ms? Also values changed a bit since last checked 2k miles ago. On some clutches wend up like 80mbar . Is that normal?

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Now looking at this on a computer and not my phone. 

 

You have 0ms for fill times on your gearbox, this to me shows that the gearbox has not been through the relearn process. 

 

Where are you located, can someone reset your adaptations for you? 

I think you really need to go through the proper reset procedure, a 0ms figure shows it has not been done. 

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This is the minimum that should be done after gearbox adaptations are reset after oil flush, changing solenoids, etc. etc. 

 

This is for the ZF8, but gives you an idea...

 

After the vehicle has reached normal operating temperature, and with the scan tool, monitor actual gear state. Drive the vehicle normally with the accelerator pedal between 10% and 20% until 7th gear has been achieved, approximately 76 km/h (47 mph). After 7th gear has been achieved, coast down to 30 mph with no application of the brake or accelerator to allow a 6-5 shift. Brake the vehicle to a stop. Repeat this procedure 5 times.

Edited by gIzzE

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Thanks for your replies. I am in Herefordshire and i dont know anyone here,apart from bmw and mercedes specialists who have proper diagnostic to reset adaptations for me. They would charge 50 pounds just to plug it in.

I will try to reset it myself with my scanner. See what happens.

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Hi. Mine was 490 on e clutch and no fault codes and being me and loving the car to bits went ahead and repaired transmission and now it pritty much same as it was before the job,just 2k lighter.

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Yuri84, 

Gearbox adaptions seem to be fine after the complete rebuild. I don't see the mileage on your car in this thread but I still have Clutch E adaption to 750mb at 230k miles which is at the most it registers and adapts the pressure to the clutches, after it it will display red gearbox icon at the dash if I push it(did a remap again so it should fail a bit quicker) so I can rebuild it. 

 

Anyway regarding your harsh shifts. Nobody as far as I know does a proper learning cycle once the gearbox been reset (after adaption reset/rebuild.)

I did see they have reset them, but the best thing for the box would be if you update the software on it(if available) and reset the adaptions(again).What I would suggest for you would be to get the OTG 3.0 cable from ebay or amazon(bought a 3.1 but some of them doesn't work with android 9) then get a K-dcan USB to OBD cable and download xHP. Read the manual and update gearbox software(if needed) reset tranny and use stage 2 or stage 3 map on the gearbox. Problems should be sorted. For a power supply you can use another car with a jumper cables as long as the voltage stays above 13V it should be good

 

P.S. If you had a low mileage on the tranny all above should sorted once it's done. If you have 100k+ Miles on it consider there might be a issue with a leak in mechatronics unit, not getting enough oil pressure where it needs to be.... There are oversized components available from sonnax but I don't think tranny has so much wear... 

 

P.S.2 Do you have a actual list of what exactly they changed? 

 

P.S.3 Are there much folks here who are towing caravans once in a while? I would like to see the adaptions from you in my gearbox thread... Other thing.. Since nobody does it here in UK as far as I am aware... Anybody would a have a interest to get the gearbox upgraded/refurbished to a higher spec/performance  for towing/track use? Parts are available and they are not that expensive. Considering opening a small business, might be even this year and it will be for 6hp19/26/28 gearboxes only. 

Edited by Biotoxic

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2 hours ago, Biotoxic said:

Yuri84, 

Gearbox adaptions seem to be fine after the complete rebuild. I don't see the mileage on your car in this thread but I still have Clutch E adaption to 750mb at 230k miles which is at the most it registers and adapts the pressure to the clutches, after it it will display red gearbox icon at the dash if I push it(did a remap again so it should fail a bit quicker) so I can rebuild it. 

 

Anyway regarding your harsh shifts. Nobody as far as I know does a proper learning cycle once the gearbox been reset (after adaption reset/rebuild.)

I did see they have reset them, but the best thing for the box would be if you update the software on it(if available) and reset the adaptions(again).What I would suggest for you would be to get the OTG 3.0 cable from ebay or amazon(bought a 3.1 but some of them doesn't work with android 9) then get a K-dcan USB to OBD cable and download xHP. Read the manual and update gearbox software(if needed) reset tranny and use stage 2 or stage 3 map on the gearbox. Problems should be sorted. For a power supply you can use another car with a jumper cables as long as the voltage stays above 13V it should be good

 

P.S. If you had a low mileage on the tranny all above should sorted once it's done. If you have 100k+ Miles on it consider there might be a issue with a leak in mechatronics unit, not getting enough oil pressure where it needs to be.... There are oversized components available from sonnax but I don't think tranny has so much wear... 

 

P.S.2 Do you have a actual list of what exactly they changed? 

 

P.S.3 Are there much folks here who are towing caravans once in a while? I would like to see the adaptions from you in my gearbox thread... Other thing.. Since nobody does it here in UK as far as I am aware... Anybody would a have a interest to get the gearbox upgraded/refurbished to a higher spec/performance  for towing/track use? Parts are available and they are not that expensive. Considering opening a small business, might be even this year and it will be for 6hp19/26/28 gearboxes only. 

Hi. Thank you for your reply. Since full rebuild tranny done not more than 10k miles and that included 3.5k mile drive on the European motorways as i took car from UK to Lithuania,Belarus and then back to UK.

 

Rebuild was done in Petrerborough at Planet Gears. They changed all clutch plates,bushes,o-rings,solenoids,dampers and also they replaced valve body(second hand though),but they said it was in great condition and also TC was repaired too. Heat exchanger replace also.  What is nagging me is that i still have same issues after rebuild as before it. Planet Gears said that only thing that was not touched by or replace is TCM and they think that thats what might be causing my issues,they said that it gets shift timing wrong now and again,but to me it seem strange as there is clear pattern when bumps and kicks happen,so it get timing wrong every time under certain conditions that i described in my posts. After initial job was done,i was not happy and car went in again. They stripped tranny again,checked every single bit and if i can believe them,then they had ZF technicians checking software for issues and they did update on it too.

 

Now i am stuck with transmission thats not working as it should,but Planet Gears kind of ignored me,as if it is in my head and not in transmission. I understand that its hard for them to work with people who understand how things should really work,but thats on them in the end of day and now i have to try and sort issue out myself.

Like you mentioned i was planning to do Xhp flash stage 2 or 3,luckily there is a place near me that does it for 250 pounds and i can change from stage 1,2 or 3 as many times as i want as it kind of life time thing they do. I am hoping this might sort out the issue.

 

Regarding relearn process,i agree with you,even though they say they try and do it,but i am not so sure. Reason is that when i car went for tranny fluid change after repair,they did reset adaptations again and nothing was done in terms of reteaching tranny,i just been sent on my way.

 

Thanks again.

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14 hours ago, gIzzE said:

Why not download INPA and whack it on a laptop. 

 

Worth having if you're running BMWs out of warranty. 

Hi. Yep,i think it my next bit of kit for the car that i will be buying and learning to use.

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On 2/15/2020 at 11:40 AM, Biotoxic said:

Yuri84, 

Gearbox adaptions seem to be fine after the complete rebuild. I don't see the mileage on your car in this thread but I still have Clutch E adaption to 750mb at 230k miles which is at the most it registers and adapts the pressure to the clutches, after it it will display red gearbox icon at the dash if I push it(did a remap again so it should fail a bit quicker) so I can rebuild it. 

 

Anyway regarding your harsh shifts. Nobody as far as I know does a proper learning cycle once the gearbox been reset (after adaption reset/rebuild.)

I did see they have reset them, but the best thing for the box would be if you update the software on it(if available) and reset the adaptions(again).What I would suggest for you would be to get the OTG 3.0 cable from ebay or amazon(bought a 3.1 but some of them doesn't work with android 9) then get a K-dcan USB to OBD cable and download xHP. Read the manual and update gearbox software(if needed) reset tranny and use stage 2 or stage 3 map on the gearbox. Problems should be sorted. For a power supply you can use another car with a jumper cables as long as the voltage stays above 13V it should be good

 

P.S. If you had a low mileage on the tranny all above should sorted once it's done. If you have 100k+ Miles on i

On 2/15/2020 at 11:40 AM, Biotoxic said:

Yuri84, 

Gearbox adaptions seem to be fine after the complete rebuild. I don't see the mileage on your car in this thread but I still have Clutch E adaption to 750mb at 230k miles which is at the most it registers and adapts the pressure to the clutches, after it it will display red gearbox icon at the dash if I push it(did a remap again so it should fail a bit quicker) so I can rebuild it. 

 

Anyway regarding your harsh shifts. Nobody as far as I know does a proper learning cycle once the gearbox been reset (after adaption reset/rebuild.)

I did see they have reset them, but the best thing for the box would be if you update the software on it(if available) and reset the adaptions(again).What I would suggest for you would be to get the OTG 3.0 cable from ebay or amazon(bought a 3.1 but some of them doesn't work with android 9) then get a K-dcan USB to OBD cable and download xHP. Read the manual and update gearbox software(if needed) reset tranny and use stage 2 or stage 3 map on the gearbox. Problems should be sorted. For a power supply you can use another car with a jumper cables as long as the voltage stays above 13V it should be good

 

P.S. If you had a low mileage on the tranny all above should sorted once it's done. If you have 100k+ Miles on it consider there might be a issue with a leak in mechatronics unit, not getting enough oil pressure where it needs to be.... There are oversized components available from sonnax but I don't think tranny has so much wear... 

 

P.S.2 Do you have a actual list of what exactly they changed? 

 

P.S.3 Are there much folks here who are towing caravans once in a while? I would like to see the adaptions from you in my gearbox thread... Other thing.. Since nobody does it here in UK as far as I am aware... Anybody would a have a interest to get the gearbox upgraded/refurbished to a higher spec/performance  for towing/track use? Parts are available and they are not that expensive. Considering opening a small business, might be even this year and it will be for 6hp19/26/28 gearboxes only. 

consider there might be a issue with a leak in mechatronics unit, not getting enough oil pressure where it needs to be.... There are oversized components available from sonnax but I don't think tranny has so much wear... 

 

P.S.2 Do you have a actual list of what exactly they changed? 

 

P.S.3 Are there much folks here who are towing caravans once in a while? I would like to see the adaptions from you in my gearbox thread... Other thing.. Since nobody does it here in UK as far as I am aware... Anybody would a have a interest to get the gearbox upgraded/refurbished to a higher spec/performance  for towing/track use? Parts are available and they are not that expensive. Considering opening a small business, might be even this year and it will be for 6hp19/26/28 gearboxes only. 

I will be towing a caravan later this year & three to four times a year after this, I would definitely interested in a upgraded gearbox as if I'm having it rebuilt I might as well have it improved. If I know it'll be good for it I'm looking at mods

to achieve 400+ power.

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15 hours ago, dirtydirtydiesel said:

I will be towing a caravan later this year & three to four times a year after this, I would definitely interested in a upgraded gearbox as if I'm having it rebuilt I might as well have it improved. If I know it'll be good for it I'm looking at mods

to achieve 400+ power.

Hi. I know that different companies make uprated kits for zf8hp trannies,but i am sure some uprated parts are made for 6 speed also. I am not sure you will find many specialist who are going to take on job like that,because its not as easy as just fitting upgraded parts in. I know that heavy duty kevlar clutch plates are bit thicker in diameter and might need some adjusting. I think that bushes should be made out of bronze of certain grade that allows higher loads. Valve body should be checked and repaired and sonnax zip kit installed. TC with heavy duty friction plates and poss something else. Software to suit uprated parts might be needed too.

All in all it can be done,but by who and at what price? 

These day all these specialists are only specialist in stripping and fitting new parts,but if they get stuck,like in my case,they just dont know what to do and start comming up with some bull...it.

 

P.s. I reset adaptations on my tranny using my delphi scanner. I know it did the job,because when i read adaptations with my other scanner,it showed zero on all clutch packs.

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I've had so many issues with rebuilt autoboxes - I've had far more luck with secondhand ones. Replace the filter screen, TC oil seal and in it goes, reset everything, new oil and it's just worked. £350 all in and a day's swearing on a ramp. 

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9 minutes ago, Sir Anthony Regents-Park said:

I've had so many issues with rebuilt autoboxes - I've had far more luck with secondhand ones. Replace the filter screen, TC oil seal and in it goes, reset everything, new oil and it's just worked. £350 all in and a day's swearing on a ramp. 

Hi. To be honest that what i wanted to do,but then i couldnt quite get info on how it works with fitting second hand box,not sure how to code it to the car and then also finding correct part number and plus tranny specialist was so against second hand one as if it can cause lots of issues.

But i could have had 2 different boxes fitted for the price i paid.

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