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Skynet5

Diesel grades

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4 minutes ago, Ninja59 said:

Excuse me I provided my viewpoint based on my experience and nothing more.

 

In addition if you decided not selectively chop my posts you might see I have actually stated I did not get on so well with v power in my 640D and stopped using it. In honesty i considered it a fairly balanced viewpoint basing on a variety of experiences across different fuels.

 

I never said there was risks as such just anecdotal evidence that a number of supermarkets had suffered with contamination issues and my experience had generally been pretty negative.

 

Not everyone is going to take evidence of every little bit, but general experience and as I said across multiple tanks of the same fuel type you can form a viewpoint for yourself.

 

In honesty having seen some of your previous posts I am not surprised by your response.


what is that supposed to mean? My previous posts?
 

im trying to have a discussion here and I’m not dissecting your post at all. You clearly said you consider supermarket fuel a risk but why? Granted I missed the point that you said v power is a no go for you any longer but the same stands for the premium of any other manufacturers. 
 

like I said, I consider that each fuel will have a minimum standard. Mind you, there are markets with even worse fuel where these cars still function and do so without issue. 
 

you have to admit that there is an element of placebo with fuels and that’s been the case for a long time.

 

in terms of contamination, that can happen anywhere. My old man filled up at BP once, petrol was mixed with water. 

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1 hour ago, eddier1558 said:

It'd be interesting to find out what percentage the additives are of the fuel, as noted by someone above I suspect the base fuel to be the same.

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this is interesting as well, plus what is in the additive.

 

could it be the equivalent of running a bottle of RedEx  through the tank every x amount of tanks (not that there hasn’t been reported white smoke etc after that)

 

let’s not forget that up until not too long ago, fuel filler caps specifically said “no additives” 

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12 minutes ago, Skynet5 said:

I'm not going to ask this question again. Lol

 

There is no problem with asking any questions.

 

Sometimes it's the answers where things go wrong.

 

Lets keep the chat friendly.

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I worked within the Diesel Engine Management business a few years back, we had a fuel specialist due to the nature of producing Diesel fuel injection equipment.

He stated to me that super market fuel is just as good as any of the name brands (He tested them in house), he did say its always better to get the fuel nearer the source of import (coast, port etc) as where the fuel gets shifted around from boats/depots/lorries/fuel station tanks the grade is weakened/contaminated but only a minimal amount. Of course this isnt helpful as you dont drive extra long way to get fuel if you not near to source.

 

I have never put higher grade than standard B7 diesel in the last three diesel cars I have had. I agree with most that its better to put the money towards good servicing on the car.

 

I tend to use Shell these days for fill up as its local to me and I like using the app to check my fill up amount/dates etc and you get some rewards every now and again.

Edited by percha

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I've experimented with  V-Power, BP Ultimate, Esso Supreme and Gulf Endurance. My experience has shown me little discernable difference in running or mpg between any of these 'Premium grades over the more affordable alternatives. Maybe after 3 or 4 tanks full I'd notice more something but apart from using V-Power exclusively for 3 weeks/2000 miles I've only ever used one tank at a time. The V-powder experiment yielded only a marginal difference in the power/weight ratio of the car+driver combination given that my wallet was considerably lighter. I found the engine seemed to be a little more noisy after a cold start using Gulf Endurance. After a few minutes it quientened down again. Apart from that it was all the same.

 

I've nothing against supermarket diesel. I ran my old Passat exclusively on it for 6 years over 100000 miles without issue but since buying the F11 I've avoided them out of a probably misguided idea that I'm treating it to something a little more special, in much the same way as I'm washing it once or twice a week with Bilt Hamber stuff as opposed to the once a year with Turtle wax from Halfords the Passat had to endure. I'm currently using regular Gulf diesel because that's what they sell at at the garage I drive past most often and it's only 2p more expensive than the supermarkets round here. The car seems quite happy on it so I don't see the point paying the extra. If anything I'd be more tempted to use some Forte/Archoil once in a while.

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13 hours ago, sjak92 said:

let’s not forget that up until not too long ago, fuel filler caps specifically said “no additives”

So that means no additives allowed? <_<

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8 minutes ago, bestdj said:

So that means no additives allowed? <_<


that’s what BMW recommended anyway. The sign is now gone and BMW sell their own version of RedEx type stuff

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Yes BMW now sell their own brand of snake oil fuel additives. They spent years saying not to add anything to the fuel tank but have done a U turn on that policy that any MP would be proud off.

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:-D I will start using  redex dpf cleaner once a month and injectors cleaner too :D

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My fuel cap states "No additives" Minimum or maximum B7 ( cant remember whether it said minimum or maximum)  but definitely no additives.

 

My old E320 cdi used to sound a lot better when i  tipped a bottle of redex in tank.

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My fuel cap states "No additives" Minimum or maximum B7 ( cant remember whether it said minimum or maximum)  but definitely no additives.
 
My old E320 cdi used to sound a lot better when i  tipped a bottle of redex in tank.
I take it that it's telling you to use nothing but regular diesel. The engine is designed for that, so only use that. I'd honestly say that using premium will eventually cause issues.

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19 minutes ago, Spreadly said:

I'd honestly say that using premium will eventually cause issues

I have been using premium all the time don't even remember how long and it's great why should it cause issues?

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2 hours ago, Spreadly said:

I take it that it's telling you to use nothing but regular diesel. The engine is designed for that, so only use that. I'd honestly say that using premium will eventually cause issues.

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No i have used occasionally but mostly using supermarket fuels. However i am also one for servicing the car properly and did half the bmw service schedules. 

 

I was hoping this conversation would come to a conclusion with whether it is worth it or not as i am sitting on the fence about the subject.

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I was always a firm believer of when it comes to petrol, use the 'correct' octane for your car. 

In the case of BMWs since the early 90's that is 98ron, of course you can run it on 95 but you will lose power and MPG, plus you have less cleaning additives in the non premium fuel. It actually costs more in mpg to run 'most' BMWs on 95 than on 98ron. 

 

And I was of the thought that doesn't matter where it is from, Sainsburys or Shell, BP or Budgens, it doesn't matter. 

 

And, when it comes to diesel run on what you want. 

 

I have changed my mind big time. 

 

I was talking to a bloke in my shop who works on diesel engines for Ford, he was saying he had been working very closely to some of the fuel suppliers to discuss additives as they were having issues with some of the commercial vehicles with the DPFs blocking etc. at far too fast a rate. 

He said that some of them Stateside had been working with Archoil to try and reduce soot and ash levels. 

 

This was interesting me as I had been having lots of DPF regens on my 530d, every tank full it was doijng a regen, and with the Diag plugged in I could see the soot levels building up far too quickly. 

 

I used V-Power for the next 4 tanks, annoying as it was £1.49 here compared with £1.32 for regular shell, and start to monitor my exhaust system. Sure enough the soot levels were not increasing anywhere near as much, and if that is the case think how much cleaner the EGR could be. However, £1.49 was a lot for someone doing 25k miles a year. 

 

I started to do a bit of research and found this video....

 

 

 

It mentioned Archoil, the company they had been dealing with, and it was mentioning Ford engines that are used Stateside for Ambulances etc. where they often sit idling for a long time. 

 

I realised that the UK distributer was literally round the corner from me, I had actually order some Archoil products from them and they called to say "We were going to ship this out and noticed you were down the road." 

I went and collected it and had a chat and tried a couple of other bits too. I will talk about that later. 

 

https://www.powerenhancer.co.uk/archoil-ar6200-fuel-modification-complex-high-concentrate.html

 

Anyway, first tank I double dosed at least, and even by the end of the first tank I could see the soot/ash levels drop. 

This was still with V Power diesel. Second tank I went back to regular diesel. The ash/soot levels were still dropping, so the Archoil 6200 with regular diesel was doing more good than the v power. 

By tank 3 things started to get pretty impressive, the engine felt so, so much smoother, now I think this was more to do with the car was not always at that point where it wants to regen, where it gets grumbly and a bit harsh, but more impressive was the MPG, I had averaged 33/34mpg in my E61 530d since day one on the obc. Now at 90k miles with this stuff added I was averaging 38/39mpg on the OBC. 

 

The car was now doing a regen every 3-4 tanks or so, so every 1800-2400 miles. Before it was trying every tank, which was only 420-460 miles. I was now getting 510-600 miles from a tank. 

 

This wasn't snake oil, this was being monitored and I could see it was making a difference. 

 

 

When I picked up the F11 520d (b47) it was doing 36mpg, for the first few tanks, it had 68k miles on it so run in, I started to use the 6200 in that and after a few tanks MPG started picking up. I have had it a while now and even now, with winter diesel and me doing shorter runs it is averaging 44mpg. 

In October, before they switched to winter diesel I managed a 683 mile tank and that was me putting 61 litres back in. Which is 50 MPG over a tankful and not trying for MPG. 

 

A friend of mine has an N47 520d F11, his MPG was around 32, I plugged the diag in that and you could see his trim values were all over the place, he started using Archoil in October, over xmas he said he is now getting 39mpg average and when we plugged his car in you can see the trim values are all spot on, right bang in the middle of the green, the car is running correctly, it is not trying to run rich or lean it is running right. 

 

While looking for the links above I found this post on e90post.com...

 

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1266776

 

It is worth a read. 

 

 

When we talk about additives and cleaners we need to understand what they are trying to achieve with them, I think too often we dismiss it as snake oil, but there is some pretty clever stuff being done to make sure we burn the fuel as cleanly as possible, that being optimal temperatures etc. 

 

I am definitely a convert, and as our cars get older it becomes more important.

I was trying to find a video where someone had run two Merc diesels, one with Archoil, and one with out, and they looked at the DPFs at 80k miles, one was pretty gunked up, one was clean as a whistle with only some soot dust on it that was wiped away with a cloth. 

I will keep looking for it, as that was the video that made me realise what a difference it can make.

 

 

I also used this on my last couple of services...

 

https://www.powerenhancer.co.uk/archoil-ar9200-v2-nano-mo-ws2-friction-modifier.html

 

I can not underestimate how much difference this makes to how much smoother the engine is with it in. 

I will sound like a twat if I put it into words, but well worth doing. 

 

 

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One bottle of redex dpf a month + redex injectors cleaner every 3 fill up and you will be ok 

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I have been using premium all the time don't even remember how long and it's great why should it cause issues?
Because of the unnecessary additives. I also think it gives a placebo affect.

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No i have used occasionally but mostly using supermarket fuels. However i am also one for servicing the car properly and did half the bmw service schedules. 
 
I was hoping this conversation would come to a conclusion with whether it is worth it or not as i am sitting on the fence about the subject.
In my opinion, it is not worth using premium fuels.

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Isn’t the fuel in America not all ready watered down so to speak at 91 Ron therefore super to them is probably equivalent to ordinary unleaded over here?

 

Thats why the US cars all have lower bhp ratings as it’s less potent fuel they burn.  

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44 minutes ago, Spreadly said:

 

 

Of course you shouldn't use high octane petrol in a car that is not set to use it. 

 

What has that got to do with the price of nails? 

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1 minute ago, 535i Andrew said:

Isn’t the fuel in America not all ready watered down so to speak at 91 Ron therefore super to them is probably equivalent to ordinary unleaded over here?

 

Thats why the US cars all have lower bhp ratings as it’s less potent fuel they burn.  

 

 

They have octane ratings. 

 

Their 91 is our 95 and their 93 is our 98. 

Their regular gas is 89 which is like a 93 ron. 

 

 

Most of their cars are set up to run on 89 and 91 octane, a lot to do with tighter emissions rules, so putting in higher fuel grades is a complete waste of money. 

 

 

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On 19/01/2020 at 11:55, Spreadly said:

In my opinion, it is not worth using premium fuels.

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Never? 

 

Take say a Mercedes C43 or a BMW 340i? 

 

Or are you talking about diesel? 

 

Premium diesel is a very, very different thing compared to premium petrol. 

 

Premium petrol will allow a car to run at its peak, giving better power and mpg. 

Premium diesel is about additives that allow it to burn cleaner, giving less long term issues, but you are not meant to feel any difference, because it doesn't work like that. 

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