Jump to content
Marc_86

Turbo Comparison and Specs

Recommended Posts

Hi All,

 

Trying to get my head around how they classify and measure turbos from their names/numbers.

 

Im comparing data between:

 

GT2052V - 525d (e39) - Currently fitted

GT2256V - 530d (e39) - Possible straight swap upgrade onto mt 525d with no faffing

GT2260V - 530d (e60) - Possible upgrade mostly seen on 530d's and not really discussed fully on 525d's. Also this would include possible modification of engine mount, boost pipe and oil return pipe and a possible tweak on my remap.

 

So, from my research:

 

GT - Series (Garrett)

20/22 - Frame size 

52/56/60 - Compressor exducer diameter (mm)

V - VNT

 

So with the above in mind - if i were to change my turbo would it be best to upgrade to the 2256v from the 530d and what possible power increase would this provide? Or should i jump straight to the 2260v and again what power increase should i expect?

 

Current stats are 205bhp and 460nM/340 ft-lb

 

Many Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good timing, just done this to a friend's 525d.
 

I had both a 2256 and a 2260 spare, both needed reconditioning. Craig at TDI Turbos (https://tditurbos.com/) advised that the 2260 was a better, more modern, turbo. So I went with the 2260 and had a them fit a billet impeller and 360 bearing while recondition it. 

 

The 2256 will go straight in with no mods.


The 2260 does require some parts:


7, 10,  13, and  all associated fittings here: https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showparts?id=NC72-EUR-01-2005-E60-BMW-530d&diagId=11_3603 Not expensive from BMW, you can get away with the old feed, but it's better to fit new.


1, and 2 here: https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showparts?id=NC72-EUR-01-2005-E60-BMW-530d&diagId=11_3468 Best to get the seal from BMW. You can find the line on the bay, and you only need the aluminium section from it.  You will have to make up the rest with silicone depending on your choice of intercooler. That charge line will fit the E60/61/65  turbos, but the E46/53 had a different impeller housing, so you will have to find a line to match.


The 2260 sits a little lower from the exhaust manifold, so you either need to grind a bit out of the engine mount or get an M57N  manifold. If getting a new manifold , cast iron options are  better and easy enough  to find; the OE stainless steel ones crack.

 

If you have not done so already, fit a Euro4 3 Bar MAP sensor: https://www.eurocarparts.com/p/fae-map-sensor-420110010 you will need this to make use of the 2.5+ Bar from the 2260.


As for tuning, @TheEnd  did the map for it. We had to increase the fuelling low down as the 2260 is much bigger and very laggy. 

I can't comment on what numbers the turbo alone gives you as this car had a lot of other work done at the same time. The turbo is certainly not the limit any more.


 

Edited by sinner

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, sinner said:

Good timing, just done this to a friend's 525d.
 

I had both a 2256 and a 2260 spare, both needed reconditioning. Craig at TDI Turbos (https://tditurbos.com/) advised that the 2260 was a better, more modern, turbo. So I went with the 2260 and had a them fit a billet impeller and 360 bearing while recondition it. 

 

The 2256 will go straight in with no mods.


The 2260 does require some parts:


7, 10,  13, and  all associated fittings here: https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showparts?id=NC72-EUR-01-2005-E60-BMW-530d&diagId=11_3603 Not expensive from BMW, you can get away with the old feed, but it's better to fit new.


1, and 2 here: https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showparts?id=NC72-EUR-01-2005-E60-BMW-530d&diagId=11_3468 Best to get the seal from BMW. You can find the line on the bay, and you only need the aluminium section from it.  You will have to make up the rest with silicone depending on your choice of intercooler. That charge lines will fit from the E60/61/65  turbos, but the E46/53 had a different impeller housing, so you will have to find an  line to match.


The 2260 sits a little lower from the exhaust manifold, so you either need to grind a bit out of the engine mount or get an M57N  manifold. If getting a new manifold , cast iron options are  better and easy enough  to find; the OE stainless steel ones crack.

 

If you have not done so already, fit a Euro4 3 Bar MAP sensor: https://www.eurocarparts.com/p/fae-map-sensor-420110010 you will need this to make use of the 2.5+ Bar from the 2260.


As for tuning, @TheEnd  did the map for it. We had to increase the fuelling low down as the 2260 is much bigger and very laggy. 

I can't comment on what numbers the turbo alone gives you as this car had a lot of other work done at the same time. The turbo is certainly not the limit any more.


 

Brilliant - just the response i was looking for and really appreciate you putting together the shopping list of parts for the 2260.

 

Best start researching and pricing parts.

 

Cheers again :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally I would fit 2260 unmodified because as a hybrid it will wake up much slower and to gain potential of a hybrid 2260 would mean going to CP3 HP pump and all associated parts of the newer HP system. If one want's to go all in I would first start with changing the engine to 3 litre M57.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Clavurion said:

Personally I would fit 2260 unmodified because as a hybrid it will wake up much slower and to gain potential of a hybrid 2260 would mean going to CP3 HP pump and all associated parts of the newer HP system. If one want's to go all in I would first start with changing the engine to 3 litre M57.

Thanks Clavurion.

 

Yes if i go for the 2260 - it will be standard with the above bolt-on parts. Not hybrid.

 

However...with pricing everything up, plus 2260v and labour and then a tweak of my remap - its mounting up quite a bit for what im guessing wont be huge gains to justify the cost.

 

Based on this...i think im more tempted to go for the 2256V instead.

 

What max psi can this turbo push and do you think this will be a worthwhile upgrade to my 525D? Will i even need to adjust my map since im already mapped on the standard 2052v?

 

thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Clavurion said:

530d turbo is actually 2556. That would be the easiest option and should get you somewhere near 230-240 hp. Fuel injectors would be the next limiting factor.

Sorry if i was not clear.

 

Yes due to the mounting costs - for now...the 2260 from the e60 is officially off-menu. :sad:

 

Think i will 100% be looking into the e39 530D 2556.

 

Even though im a 525D - are the above figures you stated achievable?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Clavurion said:

Personally I would fit 2260 unmodified because as a hybrid it will wake up much slower and to gain potential of a hybrid 2260 would mean going to CP3 HP pump and all associated parts of the newer HP system. If one want's to go all in I would first start with changing the engine to 3 litre M57.


Not that I was suggest hybrid, but you raise an interesting point.
 

Surely the greater compressor wheel surface area would allow more air to be compressed for a given exhaust volume?

Of course, the 2260 will be laggier than a 2560/2052.  My experience going from stock 2260 to a hybrid was much improved response lower down (before mods to fuelling).

 

8 minutes ago, Clavurion said:

530d turbo is actually 2556. That would be the easiest option and should get you somewhere near 230-240 hp. Fuel injectors would be the next limiting factor.


For fuelling, relatively cheap/simple improvements can be achieved with a higher rated regulator and an M57N rail pressure sensor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

100% made my mind up - if i can get close to 230bhp with the 2556 on my 525D - then this is what i will look into.

 

Still really appreciate all the advice.

 

Definitely food for though on the 2260 but this i will start its journey with a 530D...if/when my 525d dies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Marc_86 said:

100% made my mind up - if i can get close to 230bhp with the 2556 on my 525D - then this is what i will look into.

 

Still really appreciate all the advice.

 

Definitely food for though on the 2260 but this i will start its journey with a 530D...if/when my 525d dies.

As I told you on the PMs, that's easly achievable, I had 223hp with my remap, when I got the GT2556V I've did another dyno run and the car had 12hp more, so a total of 235, the remap was NOT adjusted for the new turbo, it has room for improvment and if the turbo is healthy you can push it to 1.7 BAR with no problem. That will take you to close or even over 250hp and 530-550NM, depending on your fueling. 

 

The important thing is that, although the TOTAL horse power was only increased by 12 horses, the curves have changed dramatically, because those 12 horse power are related to peak power. At around 3000rpm I have over 20 horse power more than I had before with the stock GT2052V. 

 

If you adjust the fueling, injection timing, turbo pressure, you'll be amazed with the results, belive me, a 72 horse power bump is something incredible on the road, and with all that I've stated you can get around 100 horse power more over stock, so around 250-260, but that is the limit. 

My car feels "stock", is very linear, little smoke.

 

I haven't decided if I am going to repair my M57D25 or if I am going to upgrade to the M57D30, as my engine is bad right now, but in case of going with the D30, I'll be doing a hibrid GT2263, custom intercooler and a proper remap, for around 280-290hp, can't go much further due to fueling. 

We have one 730d E38 here running with this setup and the car is fenomenal, and the owner claims that it can easly push the 20 inch Alpina Softlines...  :P

 

Edited by ruifmmiguel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Ray112 said:

Quite useful information there. Thanks!

Yup...cracking forum this. Great advice provided.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, ruifmmiguel said:

As I told you on the PMs, that's easly achievable, I had 223hp with my remap, when I got the GT2556V I've did another dyno run and the car had 12hp more, so a total of 235, the remap was NOT adjusted for the new turbo, it has room for improvment and if the turbo is healthy you can push it to 1.7 BAR with no problem. That will take you to close or even over 250hp and 530-550NM, depending on your fueling. 

 

The important thing is that, although the TOTAL horse power was only increased by 12 horses, the curves have changed dramatically, because those 12 horse power are related to peak power. At around 3000rpm I have over 20 horse power more than I had before with the stock GT2052V. 

 

If you adjust the fueling, injection timing, turbo pressure, you'll be amazed with the results, belive me, a 72 horse power bump is something incredible on the road, and with all that I've stated you can get around 100 horse power more over stock, so around 250-260, but that is the limit. 

My car feels "stock", is very linear, little smoke.

 

I haven't decided if I am going to repair my M57D25 or if I am going to upgrade to the M57D30, as my engine is bad right now, but in case of going with the D30, I'll be doing a hibrid GT2263, custom intercooler and a proper remap, for around 280-290hp, can't go much further due to fueling. 

We have one 730d E38 here running with this setup and the car is fenomenal, and the owner claims that it can easly push the 20 inch Alpina Softlines...  :P

 

Now just need to find a reliable source for a new turbo. A lot on the bay seem to be Chinese copies and want an exchange basis...but like for like so my gt2052v wont do. Hmmm.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got my 330d turbo from London Turbo's via ebay and was very happy.

 

Might be worth asking if they minded a different unit in return?

 

Alternatively (& price dependent) what about ECP or GS&F? When i changed the starter on my e28 i fitted one from an e34 (smaller body and thus much easier to fit compared to the e28 one) GS&F didn't care as long as they got a starter back...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, duncan-uk said:

I got my 330d turbo from London Turbo's via ebay and was very happy.

 

Might be worth asking if they minded a different unit in return?

 

Alternatively (& price dependent) what about ECP or GS&F? When i changed the starter on my e28 i fitted one from an e34 (smaller body and thus much easier to fit compared to the e28 one) GS&F didn't care as long as they got a starter back...

Worth a shot - think i will give them a try and see what they say.

 

EDIT - i actually contacted London Turbos via ebay yesterday (just checked my messages) and they were the company who advised needed to be like for like or no refund of exchange payment (£80) and no warranty on new turbo if they didnt receive a matching one back.

 

the search continues...

Edited by Marc_86

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Really struggling here guys - the majority of turbos online either seem to be chinese copies or refurb'd OEM garrets but they all (so far) are insisting on like-for-like exchanges.

 

Anyone know any good companies out there offering OEM garrets either without an exchange or are willing to exchange for a different turbo?

 

Or would a chinese copy be safe - or best avoided?

 

Cheers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, Clavurion said:

For brand new Garrett I've used this company. www.turbolader.net

Smashing, thanks for this.

 

Will take a look.

 

EDIT - ived used the translate option on the website and sent over an email enquiry. I thought this would be safer than trying to call them as im barely fluent in English never mind German.

 

FYI i am English but my broad Geordie accent is sometimes hard for people to understand and they sometimes ask what county im calling from ha :P

Edited by Marc_86

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Reply back from the above already - 

 

Brand new GT2256V with 19% VAT comes in at 700 euros plus postage.

 

Not sure any any other taxes and import duty etc.

 

They didn't actually advise on exchanging the GT2052V for the GT2256V but the exchange price was only 100ish euros different so if i did - i would go brand new unit with no exchange.

 

Will now keep searching and comparing brand new from the UK against the above.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Ray112 said:

Another option is to buy faulty turbo cheap as possible on eBay, and then you can get reconditioned one on exchange basis from London turbo's or any other place.

Good shout.

 

cant believe i didnt think of that.

 

1. Buy knackered 2256V

2. Buy reconditioned 2256V and exchange knackered 2256V

3. Sell my fully working 2052V to re-coup costs.

 

Now away to search for knackered 2256v's.

 

Cheers :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Happy days - ive found a supplier of an OEM Garrett unit (refurbished) with 12 months warranty who will accept my GT2052V turbo on exchange.

 

£170 + £60 surcharge then £60 refund once my old unit is returned.

 

Cant really complain at the above.

 

Saves trying to do the above suggestion - albeit it was a cracking idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Marc_86 said:

Happy days - ive found a supplier of an OEM Garrett unit (refurbished) with 12 months warranty who will accept my GT2052V turbo on exchange.

 

£170 + £60 surcharge then £60 refund once my old unit is returned.

 

Cant really complain at the above.

 

Saves trying to do the above suggestion - albeit it was a cracking idea.

 

Sounds really cheap because just the core (CHRA) made by a reputable company like Melett costs about the same. Did you ask if VNT settings on that turbo are adjusted on a proper flow bench?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Clavurion said:

 

Sounds really cheap because just the core (CHRA) made by a reputable company like Melett costs about the same. Did you ask if VNT settings on that turbo are adjusted on a proper flow bench?

I didnt ask that - but will quickly fire over a question.

 

Anything else you think i should check/ask?

 

The company are based it Latvia but have a UK warehouse...99%+ feedback on ebay and any negative feedback seems to refer to postage of the wrong item.

 

Also seen their name pop up on various other car forums all of which seem to be positive feedback.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×