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Sandeep

BMW 535D F10 brake discs Warped

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Hi Guys ,

i am bit of stick atm , I had bought the car from the dealership and since then had brake judder severely . The dealer ship replaces the front discs and pads , issue goes away and the after driving for ~2000 miles the brake judder comes back and on check we find that the offside front disc is 4mm uneven I.e warped. They did this about 4 times but they are not able to find out . We have also changed the callipers , but still no luck . Bremboo brake discs are used.  BMW investigated and have said no issues found with brake system but recommended to use BMW parts so they can carry on with investigation .

any suggestions are welcome 

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I know it's a different car, but still a BMW, I had brake judder on my old e91 320d and it was the lower control arm which had worn bushes. 

 

New arms (Meyle HD) and problem was solved.

 

If you have changed and checked all of the brake components may it's worn suspension arms/bushes?

Edited by Munzy123

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If the parts are from Euro Car Parts then I've heard/seen rumour online about the quality of Brembo parts they can sell. Try a different brand of pad and discs (and then you'll also know they've definitely been changed). Also IIRC from my F10 days, the discs are handed. Make sure they aren't fitting them the wrong way round (or buying two left discs for example). I'm guessing they are claiming on the Brembo parts warranty each time so if they purchased two near side discs the first time, they'll keep getting two near side discs (if that makes sense)

Assuming you've witnessed the handed discs being fitted, it sounds more like a caliper issue. Now you say you've swapped them but was that for new, used or did you refurbish existing? Did you witness this swap out of the calipers? Are the brake lines straight and not kinked? No fluid leaks? I would be speaking to someone like BCS in Nottingham and seeing if they've any tests they can do to rule out caliper problems. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Munzy123 said:

I know it's a different car, but still a BMW, I had brake judder on my old e91 320d and it was the lower control arm which had worn bushes. 

 

New arms (Meyle HD) and problem was solved.

 

If you have changed and checked all of the brake components may it's worn suspension arms/bushes?

Yes they have check the complete brake system including bmw dealer , no issues found other than non BMW discs and pads 

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18 minutes ago, sanjx said:

If the parts are from Euro Car Parts then I've heard/seen rumour online about the quality of Brembo parts they can sell. Try a different brand of pad and discs (and then you'll also know they've definitely been changed). Also IIRC from my F10 days, the discs are handed. Make sure they aren't fitting them the wrong way round (or buying two left discs for example). I'm guessing they are claiming on the Brembo parts warranty each time so if they purchased two near side discs the first time, they'll keep getting two near side discs (if that makes sense)

Assuming you've witnessed the handed discs being fitted, it sounds more like a caliper issue. Now you say you've swapped them but was that for new, used or did you refurbish existing? Did you witness this swap out of the calipers? Are the brake lines straight and not kinked? No fluid leaks? I would be speaking to someone like BCS in Nottingham and seeing if they've any tests they can do to rule out caliper problems. 

 

 

I had been in the workshop once where they had shown me the actual discs before replacing and also provide me the part numbers . And last time I have taken to another local Garage where they saw the callipers on the drivers side was catching . So took it back to the dealer again and replaced the the Calliper under warranty as my car has RAC cover,  but didn’t witness the change .

i was thinking about Getting it checked  by a brake specialist , could BCS help on this ? 

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I've had the same issue with my front discs albeit on my 7 series...Long story short i initially ordered a front set of Textar discs and pads but ended up with a textar driver side and a jurid passenger side disc...3 months later the passenger side is warpped....disc changed free of charge to a zimmerman....2 months later passenger side warpped again...Now ordered a textar passenger side disc.

 

My wheels have also been done (shot blasted and powder coated) but i think the disc material used is the difference as my drivers side textar disc is fine.

 

Also as Munzy123 said, check lower control arm bushes as my right hand side had gone completely, both arm were changed with the discs and pads.

 

Edited by 5SPORT

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4 minutes ago, Sandeep said:

I had been in the workshop once where they had shown me the actual discs before replacing and also provide me the part numbers . And last time I have taken to another local Garage where they saw the callipers on the drivers side was catching . So took it back to the dealer again and replaced the the Calliper under warranty as my car has RAC cover,  but didn’t witness the change .

i was thinking about Getting it checked  by a brake specialist , could BCS help on this ? 

 

BCS Automotive have a good rep for refurbing calipers, however I'm sure they'll be someone closer or more BMW orientated. 

 

Seeing 5Sport's post above, it is begining to sound more and more like you need to try a different set of pads/discs.  Zimmerman are my go to for previous BMW's 

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Thanks all , if I need to replace the discs with a different brand then  this will have to be under my expense , so had the issue from when I purchased the car 18mths ago . They are unable to find the issue , so i need to find the external factor causing this issue , like calliper  it fitted properly , suspension arm / bushes etc .

so should i start with BCS or is there anyone else near Rugby and get the callipers etc checked and once confirm can move on to checking lower arm and bushes ?

also I was thinking of showing it to a body shop to check if the car has had an impact ?

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25 minutes ago, Sandeep said:

Yes all 4 wheels they look like painted I.e it no the standard OEM colour for the 19” alloys 

 

The issue that @Cadwell Parker mentions is....

 

If wheels have been incorrectly powder coated or painted with coating on the rear of the alloy on the surface where it contacts the hub, this should be bare alloy to allow heat to dissipate from the discs in to the alloy wheel.

 

Yes folk bang on that the discs are vented and there is air ducts channeling air to the discs to keep them cool when the car is moving. But what they fail to understand is that when you park up with hot discs, there is now no air flow. You still have hit discs which need to cool.  The powder coating then partially insulates the hub from the alloy keeping the heat in the disc which then reacts with the friction material of the pads against it and slightly changes the surface of the disc which then gives the sensation of warped discs. 

 

BMW say this surface must be 100% clean.

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37 minutes ago, Sandeep said:

Yes all 4 wheels they look like painted I.e it no the standard OEM colour for the 19” alloys 

 

Just to add to the good points already mentioned, next time the wheels are off the car I would check they've been painted properly. The mating surface on the back of the wheel should not be painted. IIRC there was another thread to on here a while ago where the OP (who now slips my mind) was having similar issues over several months and changes of brake discs which were eventually resolved with a different set of wheels. The old ones had been poorly refurbished not having had the mating surface masked off.

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11 minutes ago, 535i Andrew said:

 

The issue that @Cadwell Parker mentions is....

 

If wheels have been incorrectly powder coated or painted with coating on the rear of the alloy on the surface where it contacts the hub, this should be bare alloy to allow heat to dissipate from the discs in to the alloy wheel.

 

Yes folk bang on that the discs are vented and there is air ducts channeling air to the discs to keep them cool when the car is moving. But what they fail to understand is that when you park up with hot discs, there is now no air flow. You still have hit discs which need to cool.  The powder coating then partially insulates the hub from the alloy keeping the heat in the disc which then reacts with the friction material of the pads against it and slightly changes the surface of the disc which then gives the sensation of warped discs. 

 

BMW say this surface must be 100% clean.

I would never in a million years of considered that as a possible issue, but having read it, it makes so much sense.

It's amazing how the smallest detail can have such an impact.

 

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59 minutes ago, Flames34 said:

It's amazing how the smallest detail can have such an impact

 

They're lovely cars to drive but seem very sensitive to things not being quite right. @Sandeep hope you get to the bottom of whatever's bothering yours.

Edited by Cadwell Parker

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Hi Guys , really appreciate the feedback , let me check my wheels then , so would guess my driver side alloy is not refurbed correctly .

 

i would need to get all 4 wheels to the OEM colour then , any advise on who is best contact in rugby / cov ?

thanks

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37 minutes ago, nashdm2 said:

It might be a trick of the picture Sandeep, but, the tyre seems too narrow for the wheel in your picture above?

Hi , yes  its the picture . 

These are Pirelli s , and have a design to protect the wheels.

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Hi Guys ,

quick update, manage to take to alloy wheel refurb in Coventry , they do a lot of testing for OEMs, checked the drivers side wheel and looks like it’s painted inside .

 

since they we ending the shift , couldn’t check the others.

whats the best method to prove this is the root cause of the issue. I have read the comments that you have shared .

 

i have also asked them to send me an email stating that the wheels were not refurbed correctly .

still concerned that only the driver discs are getting warped.

Any suggestions ?

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Ha, I'm in Coventry too :-)

 

I'm gonna speak to Rimtek in Milton Keynes tomorrow as they did my alloys a few months back after which the discs were changed for the first time but my mechanic will look at them too on Friday which is when i get my replacement disc fitted.

 

As for you proving the root cause Sandeep it will depend on when the alloys were refurbished against when the discs were changed and once you have that info you'll be in a stronger position to maybe get some sort of goodwill from the dealership or at least get them to take the wheels back to the bare alloy.

 

I found this after some googling which may help you:

 

https://pmmonline.co.uk/technical/refurbished-alloy-wheels-negative-effect-braking-system/

Edited by 5SPORT
additional info

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