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dave100

Improving Dangerous Turn Signals

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The one thing I really detest about my E60 is the indicator switch.  There is severe danger of leaving the indicators flashing without realising.  The problem it threefold:  1.  The stalk always returns to centre so the usual reasssurance by touching the stalk doesn't work.  2.  The sound is too quiet.  With the radio on or windows/roof open it's virtually inaudible.  3.  The M sport steering wheel masks one or both lights no matter how I adjust it.

 

How on earth did BMW, a company renowed for ergonomics, ever design it this way?  Why was it never the subject of a recall as a dangerou fault?

 

Any suggestions for improvement?  If I could correct just one of the three it would help.  Moving the warning lights is difficult but maybe an extra pair of LEDs mounted higher on the dash?  How would I wire them in?  How is the audible sound made?  Any way of making it louder?  Microphone near the unit and speaker?!  

 

Dave 

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Everyone knows that indicators were a dangerous optional extra on the 5 series.

Best you stop using them ASAP, in case you start to surprise other unsuspecting road users ;).

 

Not recommended:

image.png.49faa02e53077aa663ea9907679f6828.png

 

image.png.5144605e7adada6df3072562b5c16699.png

 

 

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24 minutes ago, dave100 said:

The one thing I really detest about my E60 is the indicator switch.  There is severe danger of leaving the indicators flashing without realising.  The problem it threefold:  1.  The stalk always returns to centre so the usual reasssurance by touching the stalk doesn't work.  2.  The sound is too quiet.  With the radio on or windows/roof open it's virtually inaudible.  3.  The M sport steering wheel masks one or both lights no matter how I adjust it.

 

How on earth did BMW, a company renowed for ergonomics, ever design it this way?  Why was it never the subject of a recall as a dangerou fault?

 

Any suggestions for improvement?  If I could correct just one of the three it would help.  Moving the warning lights is difficult but maybe an extra pair of LEDs mounted higher on the dash?  How would I wire them in?  How is the audible sound made?  Any way of making it louder?  Microphone near the unit and speaker?!  

 

Dave 

 they still auto cancel like normal, if you're unsure you can tap in the same direction and they still cancel. You could adjust your steering wheel/seat if its blocking the view. 

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2 hours ago, dj1233 said:

 they still auto cancel like normal, if you're unsure you can tap in the same direction and they still cancel. You could adjust your steering wheel/seat if its blocking the view. 

They auto cancel on turns but not lane changes or gentle turns.  Tapping in same direction to check is fine if you remember which way you last indicated!    As I said, adjusting the M sport wheel doesn't help, one or both are always obscured and anyway don't really want to adopt 'monkey driving bus' driving position :-)  Maybe the SE wheel is better, it's bad enough having the speedo obscured if one wants a decent position.  My old E39 m sport was far better in this respect

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2 hours ago, DarkHorse said:

Everyone knows that indicators were a dangerous optional extra on the 5 series.

Best you stop using them ASAP, in case you start to surprise other unsuspecting road users ;).

 

Not recommended:

image.png.49faa02e53077aa663ea9907679f6828.png

 

image.png.5144605e7adada6df3072562b5c16699.png

 

 

Well since having the E61 I can see why BM drivers may be reluctant to use indicators!

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Yeah, I forgot to mention that I totally agree with your observations ;), as fairly often I have to double check the indicator is on when going around a roundabout, peering around the steering wheel to confirm activation. When I first got the car the 1 touch 3 flash feature was enabled in the iDrive, which messed me up further :angry:. Found myself trying to cancel a indication to then be indicating in the oposite direction, so soon disabled that.

 

Maybe we could add a small sticker or prism to reflect each indicator dash light, increasing the activation visibility. I can't find any useful links....

 

Edit: Experiment with somethng like: Fresnel Prisms, 3M Press on prisms, 40D (40 Diopter)

Edited by DarkHorse

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On 7/26/2019 at 8:04 AM, DarkHorse said:

When I first got the car the 1 touch 3 flash feature was enabled in the iDrive, which messed me up further :angry:. Found myself trying to cancel a indication to then be indicating in the oposite direction, so soon disabled that.

 

 

Doesn't hitting the stalk in the same direction cancel the signal? When i first got the car i too was having to hit the opposite direction to cancel the indicator till i realised that i could just hit the same direction to cancel it. 

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Yes I think that's correct on regular indicator full activation, not sure what the 3 flash mode did, I was all over the place a few times, which was quite embarrassing :oops:.

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i can entertain this having recently bought an e60, my drive home was different lol, i struggled to get to grips with what was going on with my indicators, got to grasp with them now, but there certainly not straight forward!

 

the mrs is already hesitant at driving an auto and such a big car after our r53, wait till she trys moving lanes in it

 

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 7/27/2019 at 7:23 PM, DarkHorse said:

Yes I think that's correct on regular indicator full activation, not sure what the 3 flash mode did, I was all over the place a few times, which was quite embarrassing :oops:.

 

Works on the 3 flash too... Just tried it.

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On 25/07/2019 at 23:27, dave100 said:

Maybe the SE wheel is better, it's bad enough having the speedo obscured if one wants a decent position

I can certainly confirm the SE wheel causes no issues, but I'm not sure how you have difficulty seeing the speedo.

 

I can hear my indicators just fine also so maybe I need to turn up the radio a little more :)

I definitely agree that the method of cancelling the full on indicators took some getting used to (and no doubt confusion and fist shaking by other road users). It is totally counter-intuitive and makes you wonder what the hell the designers were thinking of. Does anyone know if this cancellation method was/is carried on in other models or were we the only unfortunates to have it inflicted upon us?

 

Keliuss

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I  wonder if the click on 2008 onwards is louder?  If so could it be upgraded?    Seeing the speedo is a big problem if I have it set as I like it, low down.  I'd actually like it lower than the lowest setting allows (which would solve the speedo problem and indicator lights as I'd see them over the top).   I can only see the whole speedo if it's almost as high as it will go which feels unnatural to me.

 

Part of the problem is my other car being an SLK 350 which has a sensible normal stalk.  Also exacerbated as that is exactly where the cruise control is on the E61.  The number of times I hit cruise cancel instead of indicators.......

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Now that you mention it I've lost count the amount of times I've cancelled my cruising speed when attempting to indicate lol. Was better on the steering wheel on the E46 in my opinion.

 

Keliuss

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1 hour ago, DarkHorse said:

Or activating the high beam when trying to speed up/down the cruise LOL.:angry:

 

 

Oh yes, forgot that one. Of course it always happens when you are close behind someone :rolleyes:

 

Keliuss

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Well I found a very simple cure (for touring models anyway).  A 'lights on' buzzer from ebay for £2.50.  Simply remove one  rear indicator bulb holder.  Strip the insulation from the two wires on the buzzer.   Wrap them around the two terminals in the bulb holder and tape in place.  Refit the bulb holder.  Use a sticky fixer to mount the buzzer on the plastic side panel of the boot.  Hey presto - a far more audible bleep when indicator is flashing.   If it proves too loud I may move it behind the panel or just put some tape over it.  Now I need to order one for the other side.  Downside would be that it woulld annoy the hell out of rear seat passengers but not a problem for me.

 

Of course I'm sure this could be wired in somewhere under the dashboard if one could be bothered but it'll do me for now and more especially when my wife drives the car as it's always bothered me as an unsafe aspect.

 

Dave

 

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Too much hassle. 

 

Much easier to sell the E61 and then replace it with a properly spaced model with heads up display ;)

 

Sorted.

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There is an "upgrade" available which makes the indicators perfectly visible to the driver. This option came as standard on mine ;)

 

20180904_135842.thumb.jpg.ee99c142b76959d184adc7d151334053.jpg

 

Keliuss

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I'm glad it's not just me. Having moved over to E61 ownership after a couple of years with an E39, suddenly finding all the same problems too! Position of seats and steering wheel means I can't see the indicator lights on the dash, can't hear them either even with music on quietly (so yes, have been driving for a mile or so then realised the indicator has been on) and regularly getting muddled up with the cruise and indicator stalks meaning I've flashed people accidentally when I meant to change the cruise control, cancelled cruise when intending to indicate, etc. Definitely a bit of an oversight on Human Interface Design I feel. 

Edited by chicaneuk

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7 hours ago, Keliuss said:

There is an "upgrade" available which makes the indicators perfectly visible to the driver. This option came as standard on mine ;)

 

20180904_135842.thumb.jpg.ee99c142b76959d184adc7d151334053.jpg

 

Keliuss

Think it's worse with the m sport wheel.  It also depends on your build.  I'm 5'11" and to be able to see both indicator lights I have to have the wheel at almost it's highest setting which feels ridiculous.  I don't want to be driving a bus.    I had no such problems with my e39 (also with m sport wheel).  However, even if I could see the lights, with the daft switch I'd still like some audio reminder too.

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I remember the segment on Top Gear when Clarkson first tested the E60 M5, way back when, that he hated the way the indicators worked. 

 

Edited by Davylad

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