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-TARBY-

My brake judder is back :((((

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Hi All

 

Some of you may remember my woes from this thread... It does read like a tale of woe.. and I did think it was all over but no...

 

 

The brake judder is back.. I make an informed guess (based on the saga of the last year) that the discs are yet again warped.... That's less that 2 months, less than 1000 miles..

 

Ironically the car wen In for its 3 year warranty check, 1st MOT and brake fluid service today.  It was only driving home that I sensed things were not right. I drove back along the A road home 60-70 for about 15 mins and I pulled her up hard and then could feel the judder at the 50--40 mph mark. I then did the test that I did before and feathered the brakes with my left foot whilst applying the throttle.. Not for long and not hard, just enough to get contact with the discs at a constant speed.. The judder was there. I got home and checked the heat on the discs and I couldn't touch the discs. The alloys around the hub were warmish.

 

I've had three sets of discs on the car now, 2 within the past year and within 9000 miles. Something isn't right. I've checked so many things (as per the linked thread) and now this is doing my head in.

 

The car is booked back in on the 28th where I have told them that I don't want it back until the root cause is diagnosed... they blamed the last time on material failure... I didn't believe them either but it was the 19th of December and I was just glad to get the care back!!

 

What to the brains of the board think it could be? Could it be the alloy wheels? Again, I checked these last time and have the photos to back it up. I need to try and give BMW something to go on if possible.

 

P

 

 

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3 hours ago, AndyM said:

Warped discs are not mis-shapen, the name is bad. Warped actually means that there are uneven deposits of pad material over the surface of the disc 

 

+1

 

It sounds like your discs are running too hot.

 

Are the vents in the lower front bumper clear?  There are ducts to channel air to the front discs to cool them.

 

What size are your discs?  The reason I ask is that some are rotation specific.  The cooling fins are designed to rotate in a specific direction which will shed warm air away from them, there are arrows etched into the disc to show the direction of rotation.  If your vents are blocked or your discs are on the wrong way then they won't cool and will give the impression or a warped disc as explained by AndyM.

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The conversation on another thread on here talked about over tightening wheel bolts and a method of tightening is to use a torque stick.

 

 

Not knowing much about torque sticks, I watched this video on YouTube which explains how an over tightened alloy wheel can "warp" discs. 

 

 

Although if you have had your discs done bu BMW I doubt they will have over tightened anything, but it's a possibility......

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Hi
I've got a F10 on a 62 plate had exactly the same problems...changed 3 sets of discs (front) in as many months....the problem was that the I needed NEW CALIPERS...once fitted the problem was solved, I'm now a happy chappy

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk

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Hi my updates:

 

The car is currently in with the dealer.

 

I wrote them chapter and verse on this and took the workshop foreman out in it. His immediate response was 'that's not right' and I said ' no sh!t sherlock'... Anyway.

 

1. They needed to rule out the rear discs and pads so they replaced them and it made no difference.

2. They checked the callipers and they are operating correctly - I will hold them to this

3. The run out is not as bad on the front discs as it was in August and December 2018

 

4. They suspect the wheels... So we all know this story. They are saying 3rd party refurb of the wheels has put too much paint on the alloys... So I have asked them to categorically prove it. So they are sourcing some donor wheels and we will go from there.

 

More updates as I have them

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9 minutes ago, -TARBY- said:

 

3. The run out is not as bad on the front discs as it was in August and December 2018

 

 

If they have run out beyond spec that means they are suffering from too much heat. Ignoring the heat sink effect of the alloys, there is too much heat being generated.

 

They only way they get that amount of heat in them is if there is a binding caliper, binding wheel bearing or you are driving simply too hard on them.

 

Taking it for a drive and measuring the disc temps will soon check that out.

 

IMG_27_4256.jpg

 

From memory when I fitted my discs, each face is about ~10mm thick of solid steel, separated by a gap of ~16mm made up of fins.  This is an immensely strong and stiff structure and the force or amount of heat required to bend it is massive.

 

Something is very wrong and you seem to be getting nowhere finding out the source.

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Thanks Andrew. What you say is important and I will add it into the next part of the dialogue.

 

They say and have put in writing that the callipers and everything else is fine. They know that I will go all the way if it does turn out to be this. Especially if they send me off with donor wheels and new discs and pads all round.

 

I feel like I am weathering a storm at the moment.

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I dunno, but I get the impression that given the length of time this has been going on and what it must be costing them in parts and workshop time and space the dealers need a different approach. Simply whacking on new discs and pads every few weeks doesn't seem very cost effective for them and it's a real pisser for you. 

Disc and hub temperatures should be an easy one for the dealer to check, and they should be able to check for drag in the wheel bearings - unless they find it easier to just install new ones as they have with discs and pads.

Calipers? They say they're OK so I guess that for now you have to believe them. Must admit I've only had one faulty caliper in 50 years, and there was no mistaking that! 

Maybe the change of wheels will prove their point. Wouldn't that be nice, but if it doesn't then maybe they need to have the car for an extended period and work their way through eliminating possible components one by one. Changing multiple parts may fix a problem but you're then left wondering where the fault actually lay and possibly badly out of pocket too. :(

 

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Guys - you can probably tell I am feeling like I will be backed into a corner and it will cost me money. I think I have come to terms with the fact it will one way or another so I am now working on financial damage limitatoons..

 

In my head (and writing in draft ready for an email) I see three options.

 

A. BMW continue to investigate and find a proven root cause (not plausible or wild guesses)

 

B. BMW find me donor wheels and also replace the front discs and pads thus making sure all 4 corners have a baseline of new discs, new pads and different wheels to mine. Test for a month or so.

 

C. BMW replace the discs and pads as per option B and they provide me with new wheels (at cost) and put my nearly new tyres on them and I test for a month.

 

If it is the wheels, as they are getting close to claiming, I will have to put my hand in my pocket either way.

 

 

The customer service issue here, which I need them to fully recognise and why I need a decent good will gesture is that back in August they should have taken me seriously in the first place and not fobbed me off with 'wear and tear' which at the time I disputed but didn't haven't any choice but to follow their guidance and pay for new discs and pads (not covered under the vehicles 3 years manufacturer warranty) even after escalation to BMW UK! The fact the car came back in December should have raised alarm bells. The fact that it went through the 3 year warranty check, a brake fluid service and MOT without any comment in Feb is also something I will bring them back to.

 

 

 

Any further advise and guidance on how to deal with it?

 

Thanks

 

 

 

 

 

 

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How about...

 

1. Carefully document the nature of the problem and the dates, times and measures that you and the dealer have taken to date. 

 

2. Put it all in writing, hardcopy. State that you want a formal meeting with the  boss at the dealership to discuss the situation and agree on a way forward based on the options you mention above. Send a copy to BMW Customer Service. Face to face is OK, but it's all too easy for tempers to fray, and there's sometimes disagreement about who said what and what wasn't agreed. 

 

3. Try to keep your cool. Easier said than done! 

 

 

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^thats good advice. When I had my dealer issue I wrote to both the dealer and BMW Customer Service UK. It was only after BMW UK phoned the dealer Principal and gave him a kick up the @r$e did my issue begin to be resolved.

 

By writing it down it may help vent your frustrations rather than loosing your cool in a dealership while yelling at some poor service advisor. 

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I've just had my 2nd set of front disc's put on yesterday, my other had been on for just under a year.

Brake judder is no longer present, let's hope it stays that way because i'm not wasting any more money and i'll sell the car!

 

Far too many people having this problem on this website. 

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