Jump to content
TrygveBMW

Rough Idle when Cold 525i N53

Recommended Posts

Hi all. i stuggle with rough idle only at start up when cold. no problems when the car gets some temperature. Cylinder / injector 5 and 6 shows off in the start. they are in red zone untill the car gets hot. ive tried change spark plugs. coil and injectors (used injectors. but ive changed twice and same values) No engine light. but INPA shows fault code on circulation water pump (dead) and Exhaust fault code 30E9 P2000 nox sensor Bank 1.  Please give some input. I got INPA so i can record and upload video on Youtube. Cheers

20190114_201621.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did you change all the injectors for that bank?  5 might be showing as off but the injector either side could be at fault, leaking, and making the output from the entire bank erroneous.

 

Coolant pump and NOx are separate issues I would think. You need to solve the misfire first.

 

What index are the injectors in the engine across both banks?

 

Also see bimmerprofs website. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi n welcome.

 

+1 agreed.

 

Free online diagnostics. N43/N53 https://bimmerprofs.com/online-diagnostics-n43n53/

Requires a  requires time to collect the 60+ INPA data screen shots (GreenShot's with hotkeys helped).

I got a pretty good detailed report, understandably targeted toward a "NOX emulator" sale but still useful info.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DarkHorse said:

Hi n welcome.

 

+1 agreed.

 

Free online diagnostics. N43/N53 https://bimmerprofs.com/online-diagnostics-n43n53/

Requires a  requires time to collect the 60+ INPA data screen shots (GreenShot's with hotkeys helped).

I got a pretty good detailed report, understandably targeted toward a "NOX emulator" sale but still useful info.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, bmwmike said:

Did you change all the injectors for that bank?  5 might be showing as off but the injector either side could be at fault, leaking, and making the output from the entire bank erroneous.

 

Coolant pump and NOx are separate issues I would think. You need to solve the misfire first.

 

What index are the injectors in the engine across both banks?

 

Also see bimmerprofs website. 

Hi! i just changed nr 5 and 6 on bank two. since they were on red. I might try to cut off each injector with inpa while running? the faulty injector will be the one disconnected were the idle is more or less the same and the rest will be worse when cut off? they are all index 9. so a default nox/ cat will not make the car run rough when cold? Cheers! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DarkHorse said:

Hi n welcome.

 

+1 agreed.

 

Free online diagnostics. N43/N53 https://bimmerprofs.com/online-diagnostics-n43n53/

Requires a  requires time to collect the 60+ INPA data screen shots (GreenShot's with hotkeys helped).

I got a pretty good detailed report, understandably targeted toward a "NOX emulator" sale but still useful info.

 

 

Thanks! i will give this a try. it might be worth the time :D if i get a report ill upload it here!

Edited by TrygveBMW

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Hello, Trygve,

first about error regarding water-pump: 2E85. Unfortunately, this is a pretty common error and nothing can be done (except replacement). A few years ago I tried to open these pumps, without success (in undamaged condition)... There is a little bit more about this issue:
https://bimmerprofs.com/electric-waterpump/

And now - please, check files in the attachment!
As I see, some time ago all adaptations were cleared, right? Unfortunately, re-adaptation is not successfully finished.
1. flywheel is not adapted (minor problem);
2. thanks to problems with NOx sensor engine never performed Stratified charge and as the result - increased fuel consumption, no data regarding injectors, etc.
NOx sensor is damaged, no doubts. NOx converter - 99.9999% too (taking into account high mileage on your car + driving with damaged NOx sensor).
I don't recommend installing OEM NOx sensor, you will meet 30E9 error very soon (and - Stratified charge will be disabled again).

In addition injector of 6th cylinder looks suspicious (leaking at idle), but 100% confirmation will be available only when Stratified charge will be re-enabled.
At this moment I see only indirect symptoms: increased mechanical efficiency; incorrect fuel mixture for 4/5/6 cylinders, lowered offset type LTFT for the 2nd bank, disabled idle adjustment for a 2nd bank, etc.

Problems with water-pump and NOx system need to be solved first. Then - re-adaptation of the engine and - additional attention to bank 2 and 6th cylinders data!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I might as well jump on this rather than start a new thread, as my fairly new (to me) 530i has developed a rough idle from cold (everything fine when warmed up and on a run, 38-39 mpg indicated on steady motorway driving). Main question is what's the best way to determine which cylinder it is, so I can target work in the right place?

 

I've not got around to sorting out diagnostic software yet, is there a particular version or release (e.g. carly / INPA) that will give me this level of detail? I have an android mobile and Win 10 laptop for the interface.

 

Also any recommendations for reliable independents around SW London and Slough would be good. I know Bird's but they're probably dearer than the dealer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd say INPA is 'ralatively' easy to install/setup on a laptop with a ~£30 interface cable (normally bundled with various s/w package options) and is a necessary minimum for such diagnosis visibility. I have not used INPA to chase down leaky injectors myself but I can tell you that most of the UI and info is in German for the N53 screens and it's a pain to know how to use. Then learning how to interpret the live telemetry data is another skill in itself. Have a play but be prepared for a less than straight forward journey and making a close friend of Google ;).

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep, makes sense, I must be slipping ;).

 

This might help:

 

 

Edited by DarkHorse

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the links. I found a how to from 2012 on a US forum and I think that's the same vid actually. First thing to do as you've said is pull the covers and see what I've actually got in there. I know it's had injectors since the index 11 came out but haven't yet investigated where they went. If I can pinpoint the issue to one injector or one bank that should at least minimse the pain as it looks like the best part of £1k per bank including diagnostics, labour and VAT. It was a cheap enough car for what it is and I went in with my eyes open to the N53 issues but that kind of bill inside 2 months is a bit sore!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let us know what injectors you've got please, am curious to know. Mine (f10 530i) had a slight misfire on cold start the other day but not enough to cause an error on the DME. The injectors take a fair wack of current and a weak battery may cause issues too - worth checking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Probably unrelated but a notable engine behaviour observation. I had to move and repark my N53 the other day (engine ran for less than a minute) and a day later on the next engine start, it struggled to idle and ran really rough for the first 10 seconds, then ran fine after that. Not the first time I've noticed this behaviour, plus my previous M54 BMW petrol engine also used to have the same residual petrol flooding problem with such brief cold start/stop cycles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/7/2021 at 11:11 AM, DarkHorse said:

Probably unrelated but a notable engine behaviour observation. I had to move and repark my N53 the other day (engine ran for less than a minute) and a day later on the next engine start, it struggled to idle and ran really rough for the first 10 seconds, then ran fine after that. Not the first time I've noticed this behaviour, plus my previous M54 BMW petrol engine also used to have the same residual petrol flooding problem with such brief cold start/stop cycles.

Maybe leaking injector

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/7/2021 at 1:49 AM, bmwmike said:

Let us know what injectors you've got please, am curious to know. Mine (f10 530i) had a slight misfire on cold start the other day but not enough to cause an error on the DME. The injectors take a fair wack of current and a weak battery may cause issues too - worth checking.

I had Idex 9. but inspected and no leak. My valves was in bad condition. That caused rough idle.

Edited by TrygveBMW
Fix

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe a leaky injector but doesn't rough idle on a normal stop/start cycle, only on the specific 1 minute cold stop/start scenario that I highlighted.

 

Hey, glad you got a good result and fix. How did they diagnose the damaged valves, compression tests or endoscope into the spark plug holes or removed the inlet manifold? A bit unusual for the N53. What was the final bill?

 

 

Edited by DarkHorse
typo's

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you pull all plugs after The car have been sitting a day or two. Maybe you can see a Wet plug or smell who is leaking..

Mechanic just pulled The head of ond inspected it. 240.000km. Engine..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've had a look under the covers. All coils are grey top which is the latest version according to two of the local independents. The injectors are all index 11 apart from cyl1 which is index 9.

 

I haven't got access to a Win7 laptop so bought the Carly adapter for £130. I found 29 codes from everything from the engine to the reversing lamps, so I cleared the lot and I'll see what comes back after a couple hundred miles. The engine codes were

2A2C mixture 2

29E1 mixture 2

29E0 mixture

2AEC NOx sensor

 

Does the '2' mean bank 2?

 

Some reading suggests this is related to pre-cat lambda. No misfire codes yet. Ill post up what comes back in due course.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All codes disappeared but I have 

2AEC Nitrogen Oxide Sensor Self Diagnostics

which is recurring.

 

I'm also noticing an exhaust smell in the cabin while crawling in traffic, probably unrelated.

 

So, looks to me like there's something causing a misfire but not yet serious enough to trip a code, and the nox sensor on the way out. I'm not especially impressed with Carly tbh, it's OK for diagnostics but the price is too high for that; especially if it can't code devices to the car, because I'll then have to either get hold of Rheingold which makes Carly redundant, or pay someone to do it for me, in which case I've paid for diagnostics anyway.

 

I've not fiddled with it much but for £60 for the dongle and £60 annual fee it needs to do more than this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've had the same 2AEC error on my N53 since taking ownership in 2017.

You might find my hopeful ramblings and theories mildly helpful in this "N53 Stratified lean burn mode(s) restored?" post, well the conclusion in the last paragraph anyway ;).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd replaced two faulty injectors (cyl 1 & 6) with index 11 over the weekend which resolved my occasionally hot start stumble (leaking injectors), but the pre-requisite is that you must have a working NOX sensor otherwise the injector won't run it's adaptation properly causing you further rough run and lack of the all important stratified mode.  I run the NOXEM emulator and recommend it over the BMW OEM sensor as this would benefit you should you eventually come across the ageing NOX cat fault which would save you having to replace the expensive CAT.

 

Also contrary to what everyone says about replacing the entire bank with index 11 this is simply not the case as I'm now running a mixture of index 9 and 11, this is a well documented fact on Bimmerprofs.com website which has also helped me a lot to accurately diagnose the exact injectors causing the issue, one common example is that a leaking injector will often cause misfire to the adjacent cylinders due to the DME leaning out the mixture for that particular bank which then leads you to think that it's the other injector/s are leaking but you not actually fixing the problem.  Of course the next stage is a complete injector replacement of the entire bank (or all six in some cases) and yes the problem is resolved with great expense!

 

The N53 DME is very complex in which it goes about its job and learning how to interpret all the INPA live parameters has made my diagnosis a lot more feasible.

 

 

Edited by leew88

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×