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30 pin bluetooth dongle with AVRCP 1.3 or greater for ID3 tag support?

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Hello all,

 

I own a Intravee II along side with a KCA-420i. I also bought a dock to bluetooth adaptator (Viseeo Tune2air : http://www.viseeo.com/ugC_ShowroomItem_Detail.asp?hidShowKindID=3&hidShowID=15).

The tune2air dongle simulates an iphone and you can browse the whole library of your ipod/iphone through the intravee (for other BT Audio sources, it only plays the sound). Everything works as if you had your ipod/iphone connected.

 

But... because there's always a but... first it needs the wake up mod (tried only with the soldering and drilling one) on the kca-420i to power up the dongle (and also the 12V to 5V converter)... and after some time of playing (2/3 minutes, sometimes 15 sec), it disconnects, the display shows "No Ipod", then reconnects and continue playing.

 

I tested 2 tune2air devices, on 2 kca-420i and 2 intravee... I tested it with an android device and an iphone 4S : same problem. Finaly I tested the dongle on a classic iphone sound station, and it never disconnects so it has something to do with the installation.

 

I don't know if it's an intravee problem (tried an old and the lastest version) or a KCA-420i problem but the fact is that it is close to a great solution and I'd like it to be THE great solution :-)

 

How can I help or sort out the issue ?

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Hi widoo

That sounds reeeeeeally promissing :-)

Hope very strongly that someone from the forum can help you to do the last step to THE perfect Bluetooth solution :-)

Contact bradnic, he has the excact same project in mind as you!!

Good look and keep us informed.

Cause would immediately buy one ;-)

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Most of these devices don't transmit ID3 data or give an iPod detected signal by powering the accessory line, looks like the Viseeo does.

I don't see why it disconnects after some time, presumably it keeps doing it, it's not just once after initial connection. Is the iPhone connected to the car Bluetooth phone system too?

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NICE FIND WIDOO!  The Viseeo certainly seems to be what I was trying to build.

 

Hej Bradnic

How is it going on with your project?
Did you give it up or are you still researching and prototyping?

Looking forward to hearing news from you  :-)

My project stalled a bit as I had difficulty getting a dev environment together.  I have a couple of BT modules and an arduino but the bt sdk just doesn't provide the support I need.  The main bluetooth libs out there are very quite out of date.  So our best bet is finding something like this Viseeo device and getting it working with Intravee.   

 

Keep in mind that we need something that interfaces to your music device/phone using BT A2DP & AVRCP 1.3+ (including ID3 over BT) on one end and then talk AAP to the KCA-420i on the other.  

 

Here is a another dongle ( haven't tried it).
http://theauris.com/

 

As RichardP states the FreeDa device from auris probably does not support ID3 tags - appears that all it uses AVRCP for to be the bluetooth track control bit.  

 

The Viseeo does appear to support ID3 over bluetooth but there are few tech details.   They definitely have some sort of AAP emulation implemented, and they support bluetooth track controls for android devices (but not ID3 over BT).   I just ordered one to try it out.

 

I'll report back on my findings once I receive the unit and try it out.  Maybe I can provide more detail to what widoo has reported.

 

Richard maybe you can get a dev relationship going with these guys?

Edited by bradnic

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I contacted the FreeDa / auris guys.   founder wrote back - he's basically chasing the wireless speaker market like everyone else.  I told him alot of those speakers have track display too so he should really implement the ID3 over BT stuff.

 

My Tune2Air just arrived.  as widoo reported the KCA 420i wakeup mod is needed as it won't power up without it.

 

 I tested it with an android device and an iphone 4S : same problem

 

Same problem = powering off?  when the android device is connected and the setup is working, is everything as expected - track info, track controls etc?

 

As soon as I get the wakeup mod done I'll start messing with mine.  what 5v-12v dongle are you using?  I have a Schosche

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Was searching for a similar solution when I came across this thread. It seems that the Viseeo Tune2air is the perfect solution if your main device runs on iOS. However, Android users will be left with a half-baked solution that doesn't show track info, likely because Viseeo cheapened out and decided not to implement AVRCP 1.3 on the Tune2air, thinking AVRCP 1.0 would be sufficient for most people. So my search for a complete solution continues..

In the meantime, a wild idea came to me and I thought I would share it here to see if anyone else is crazy enough to try it out. In short, use an iPod Touch as the 30pin dongle! Here's what I'm thinking:

1) Get an old iPod Touch off eBay (2nd gen should be sufficient for this purpose)

2) Jailbreak the iPod Touch and turn it into an Airplay receiver using AirFloat (see link for explanation)

3) Connect the iPod Touch to the car audio system using the provided 30pin cable and keep it out of sight

3) On your Android device, install AirAudio (requires root) to allow audio on Android to be sent to an Airplay receiver (the iPod Touch in this case)

4) Enable Wifi hotspot on your Android device and connect the iPod Touch to the hotspot (there should be ways to automate the enabling/disabling of wifi hotspot using Tasker)

5) Playing any audio on your Android device should now be automatically routed to the iPod Touch via Wifi and to the car audio system via the 30pin connection

Some major points to clarify first.

1) Does AirFloat transmit track metadata to the car audio system? There's no reason it shouldn't if it implements some basic iOS hooks for audio playing.

2) Does track control from the car audio system get relayed back to the Android device when using this method?

Edited by speedygonz

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Was searching for a similar solution when I came across this thread. It seems that the Viseeo Tune2air is the perfect solution if your main device runs on iOS. However, Android users will be left with a half-baked solution that doesn't show track info, likely because Viseeo cheapened out and decided not to implement AVRCP 1.3 on the Tune2air, thinking AVRCP 1.0 would be sufficient for most people. So my search for a complete solution continues..

In the meantime, a wild idea came to me and I thought I would share it here to see if anyone else is crazy enough to try it out. In short, use an iPod Touch as the 30pin dongle! Here's what I'm thinking:

1) Get an old iPod Touch off eBay (2nd gen should be sufficient for this purpose)

2) Jailbreak the iPod Touch and turn it into an Airplay receiver using AirFloat (see link for explanation)

3) Connect the iPod Touch to the car audio system using the provided 30pin cable and keep it out of sight

3) On your Android device, install AirAudio (requires root) to allow audio on Android to be sent to an Airplay receiver (the iPod Touch in this case)

4) Enable Wifi hotspot on your Android device and connect the iPod Touch to the hotspot (there should be ways to automate the enabling/disabling of wifi hotspot using Tasker)

5) Playing any audio on your Android device should now be automatically routed to the iPod Touch via Wifi and to the car audio system via the 30pin connection

Some major points to clarify first.

1) Does AirFloat transmit track metadata to the car audio system? There's no reason it shouldn't if it implements some basic iOS hooks for audio playing.

2) Does track control from the car audio system get relayed back to the Android device when using this method?

 

Hello,

 

I tried this solution some times ago, here is what I can tel about it :

* iPod 2nd gen isn't working great since you need IOS 6.1.3 to have AirFloat working as expected, I tried it. I'm now using an ipod 4gen

* AirFloat is the only app working as an airplay receiver with the intravee II and the KCA-420i (AirServer isn't recognized as a music app, even though sound is coming out from the ipod, it's not going through the KCA-420i)

* You can't use your android phone as a wifi hotspot and use AirAudio (or AirStream, which is an other app I tried) at the same time

 

Right now I'm trying this :

* A 4G/Wifi hotspot working on battery (Huawei E5776 : http://www.huaweidevice.com/worldwide/productFeatures.do?pinfoId=3515&directoryId=5009&treeId=3619&tab=0)

* Connect the ipod and the android device to it

* Stream, and wait for the sound to come out from the ipod

* plug your ipod to the car

Result : It works some minutes but after that, it seems that there is not enough bandwidth and cuts every 2 or 3 seconds

I tried also on my home wifi network (802.11n) and there it's OK, so it seems it has something to do with the portable hotspot

 

Concerning your two questions, the answers is :

1) no, if you use an android device, yes if you use and other apple device, but it doesn't display on the in car audio system (not on my Intravee II version anyhow)

2) no

 

I you have any clue, please let me know :)

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Was searching for a similar solution when I came across this thread. It seems that the Viseeo Tune2air is the perfect solution if your main device runs on iOS.

 

Got exited reading this and immediately went to buy for my KCA-420i but the seller included this caveat (reproducted in his original red text):

 

 When work with these devices tune2air provide only wireless music streaming function without displaying track info and music library list with limited control from you radio

 

Maybe it is an older model? Says it is running Viseoo software v3.17.

Can anyone confirm using the above with our cars and getting track info and MFL control?

Thanks

Edited by Shled

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Hello all,

 

I own a Intravee II along side with a KCA-420i. I also bought a dock to bluetooth adaptator (Viseeo Tune2air : http://www.viseeo.com/ugC_ShowroomItem_Detail.asp?hidShowKindID=3&hidShowID=15).

The tune2air dongle simulates an iphone and you can browse the whole library of your ipod/iphone through the intravee (for other BT Audio sources, it only plays the sound). Everything works as if you had your ipod/iphone connected.

 

But... because there's always a but... first it needs the wake up mod (tried only with the soldering and drilling one) on the kca-420i to power up the dongle (and also the 12V to 5V converter)... and after some time of playing (2/3 minutes, sometimes 15 sec), it disconnects, the display shows "No Ipod", then reconnects and continue playing.

 

I tested 2 tune2air devices, on 2 kca-420i and 2 intravee... I tested it with an android device and an iphone 4S : same problem. Finaly I tested the dongle on a classic iphone sound station, and it never disconnects so it has something to do with the installation.

 

I don't know if it's an intravee problem (tried an old and the lastest version) or a KCA-420i problem but the fact is that it is close to a great solution and I'd like it to be THE great solution :-)

 

How can I help or sort out the issue ?

 

 

Probably this problem is caused by the supported power to the 'iDevice‘ because sometimes my iPhone makes the 'charger disconnected‘ sound followed by a message in the display. A few seconds later it reconnects.

 
Maybe this behavior causes the interruption on bluetooth playback with the Viseeo. 
 
This was just my first thought and I’ve no clue about the quality of the components inside, but my Scosche power adaptor produces a bit of heat when in use, but I’ve the feeling its a bit hotter than normal when the phone disconnects itself. Same problem with the little Belkin car charger I have. No problems when in use, but after an hour of driving it reaches a higher temperature and the charging process interrupts. After removing it from the powerplug in the car I held it out of the window and cooled it down at 130 mph a few seconds put it back and it works again. Boy what a junk :)
 
Maybe we should try to cut-off the feeding power connection from the KCA-420 and replace it by an industrial grade DC/DC converter which ensures exactly 5V (or 5.2V according to the specification of the Apple 12 Watts iPad charger which I use for all iDevices)
I tried to charge the iPhone with 4.9V, 4.8V, 4.7V, 4.5V by removing the USB connector with cables directly connected to a laboratory power supply.
At about 4.7 to 4.6 Volts for example my iPhone 3GS randomly starts to make this peculiar behavior which I mentioned above.
 
 
My setup:
 
Intravee II + KCA-420i (without wake-up mod), Scosche Power Adaptor, iPhone 3GS
in an BMW E38 (12/98) with Navigation Professional (4:3) and Becker BM24
 
 
Maybe I’ll try the Viseeo. Found it on Amazon and it’s not too expensive for this kind of gimmick. Hopefully the audio quality is OK

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Hi all - 

 

Anyone else give this a try?  I picked up a Tune2Air to try with my setup - Intravee II + KCA-420i (with wake-up mod) and have not had much success.  For reference I've got a 5/2003 build e39 M5 with 16:9 nag and an updated radio that supports Sirius.  Directly plugging the Tune2Air in it does not get enough power so I tried a Scosche passPORT adapter which did not work.  I also have tried the CableJive dockStubz+ adapter and that doesn't work either to give it enough power.  Now if I plug a power source into the micro USB port of the dockStubz+ the Tune2Air will get enough power and will connect with my iPhone 5 (running 7.0.4).  So now I have a solid BT connection but the Intravee/KCA-420i connectivity is spotty and it keeps dropping the connection and showing no iPod. Once I get it to play in an album or playlist it will stay for a bit until I try and select something else and then it will either drop out for a while - could be a couple of minutes or more - or it just freezes up.  Be nice if this would work so I don't have to try and run the 30-pin connector up to the armrest but I may end up resigned to do so anyway.

 

One thing I will say is that most of the audio on my iPhone is Apple Lossless and I can hear a distinct difference between the lossless when it is hard wired versus the compression over the BT.  Also, if I go to use my headset the audio will cut from the Tune2Air and play through my headset instead - so that's a little annoying.

 

I do know the Tune2Air has the latest firmware per their site and that it does actually work as intended in an Audi - I've tried it in our Audi Q5 and while a touch slower than the hard wire functions great.  I've also tried it in a Bose SoundDock and it works great as an airplay device there. 

 

 

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I've been trying one of these Tune2Air devices, generally it works surprisingly well! It works simply connected to the KCA-420i cable, no extra power required for me. It does not work if connected through a Scosche Passport though.

Sometimes, and it appears to be random, it will drop the connection often shortly after power up. It re-connects and then plays for some time, several tracks worth, sometimes longer, sometimes much longer, before it drops out again. It may be coincidence, but it appears to go longer if the iPhone is connected to power.

I don't know if there is any way to determine the firmware version on the Tune2Air, the website is all in Chinese, but I've e-mailed their sales department (the only e-mail I can find), I'll keep you updated. S/N of the device is 1A011000xxxx how does this compare with other peoples? I'm using an iPhone 4S with OS 7.1.2.

Edited by RichardP

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06 BMW 330cic (E46) with ULF. Tune2Air (T2A) in trunk with no power adapter.

 

To continue this discussion, I too just installed the T2A and also have the random 'no ipod found' cutouts. During a one hour drive, this occurred several times. The first and second times, I cycled the head unit power and the T2A reconnected. The third time and after, I simply waited and the T2A still reconnected, so the cycling was not a factor.

 

I was using an Iphone 4s (ios 7) with no cell service (glorified Ipod). I made sure the Bluetooth on my regular iphone was 'turned off' so no conflict was occurring between the iphones and the T2A or the ULF. However, the T2A is in the trunk and further from the iphone than the ULF. I haven't moved the cable and T2A into the interior and retried. I may move the iphone to the trunk so it is close to the T2A and retry.

 

Other possibilities are: interruptions caused by I-bus activity, interruptions caused by cellular activity (or lack thereof), cable issues (saw this on other BMW forums). In fact, Viseeo has added a WMA3000 with cable included since BMW adapter cables where causing issues (E90)

 

Would love to figure this out since the T2A works in all other respects.

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After a couple of e-mails from triamp I've heard nothing since November.  The last one said :

 

 

 

Thanks for your reply, picture and the log of the iPod connection. I will discuss with our engineers and let you know.

 

Time to give them a kick I think!

Edited by RichardP

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Perhaps but the T2A unit I purchased has their latest firmware 3.23. Once paired, you can see the firmware version on your iphone:  Settings, General, About. (I bet you already knew this.) I really don’t think the T2A was designed with our system in mind…KCA to Intravee to Ibus and in my case, since everything is in the trunk, there is a tremendous amount of cabling between this equipment and the headunit.

 

E90 owners with the ‘usb/aux’ connections were reporting connection issues using BMW’s cable. When they switched to the Viseeo cable, the problems stopped.

 

Anyway, I will run some tests of both the ‘proximity’ issue and the iphone ‘powered’ variation. I may also disconnect my ULF altogether to take it out of the equation.

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I don't think the amount of cabling is significant.  In effect the only cable is between the KCA-420i and the T2A.

 

I left the T2A connected and playing without any other Bluetooth devices in range with the Intravee logging the iPod connection state, this is what I got :

 

00:00:10.65 iPod connected
00:13:57.26 iPod disconnected
00:14:33.08 iPod connected
00:55:35.21 iPod disconnected
00:56:08.00 iPod connected
01:05:57.58 iPod disconnected
01:06:30.64 iPod connected
01:13:23.06 iPod disconnected
01:13:55.45 iPod connected
01:15:34.95 iPod disconnected
01:15:51.17 iPod connected
01:16:30.13 iPod disconnected
01:16:59.78 iPod connected
01:47:30.39 iPod disconnected
01:48:18.31 iPod connected
02:15:52.20 iPod disconnected
02:16:23.01 iPod connected
02:40:10.26 iPod disconnected
02:40:29.44 iPod connected
02:54:02.15 iPod disconnected
02:54:20.86 iPod connected
02:58:52.65 iPod disconnected
02:59:24.67 iPod connected
03:03:29.74 iPod disconnected
03:04:01.53 iPod connected
03:23:48.45 iPod disconnected
03:26:03.82 iPod connected
03:27:51.98 iPod disconnected
03:28:22.69 iPod connected
03:28:31.36 iPod disconnected
03:29:16.03 iPod connected
03:29:21.65 iPod disconnected
03:29:53.27 iPod connected

 

The disconnection did not appear to coincide with anything I could see.  I suspect that there is just some subtle incompatibility in the iPod protocol that is making the KCA-420i think the iPod has been disconnected.   Despite the KCA-420i having the mod that powers the iPod all the time, the blue light on the T2A went out, this might indicate that it re-booted for some reason which would obviously cause the disconnection.  In all occurrences the iPod reconnected in between 30 and 35 seconds, is this the restart time?

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I believe your reconnect time is close to my experience while driving. I also observe your cutouts occurred at random intervals, sometimes long , sometimes short, and this also equates to my experience while driving. I would go for 10-15 minutes before a cutout but later have cutouts every few minutes.

 

I see what you are saying about the fault being in the T2A unit itself.

 

It probably is unrelated but I also am trying the T2A with a Dension GW100 in an older BMW. The Dension has 3 source modes: Aux, IpodUI (user interface), IpodGW (gateway). The first mode is for the Aux jack. The 2nd mode is to allow control of the Ipod from the ipod itself as well as the headunit and steering controls (no song data on headunit). The 3rd mode allows the Dension to take control of the ipod (song data on headunit).

 

Oddly, the T2A only works in the 2nd mode, IpodUI. In the other two modes, it connects and disconnects every 5-10 seconds and I hear a series of tones when it disconnects. At first, I thought the iphones were at fault since ios 8 is known to have Bluetooth issues. However, this is not the case. The T2A is clearly the cause.

 

I offer this anecdote since the confirguration in the KCA/Intravee  clearly parallels the IpodGW mode of the Dension where one has headunit control as well as song data. I have sent a technical email to Viseeo regarding this as they advertise the T2A will 'work' with Dension aftermarket products.

 

In any event, the anecdote points to your conclusion, Richard, regarding the T2A being the cause of the disconnects we are experiencing.

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More observations:

 

Routed T2A into cabin and thus 'in front' of ULF, Was using Iphone 5S with 8.2.3. Iphone was connected to both the T2A and the ULF during tests. Cutoffs still occurred. Interestingly, during these cutoffs,  the T2A sometimes dropped its connection (blue light flashing) and sometimes didn't (blue light steady and iphone recognized T2A). In every case, reconnection occurred in less than one minute.

 

I ran a test of Spotify which didn't drop although I didn't test a significant amount of time.

 

I watched 'error logging' throughout these tests. Error Logs showed the following messages:

 

Wrong Ipod, Artist, 26 got 0

Poll Expected but not seen

Wrong Ipod, Artist, 30 got 27

Wrong Ipod, Artist, 1 got 255

Wrong Ipod, Artist, 255 got 1

 

One very, very odd thing occurred. When I first started the car, turned on the head unit, and connected the paired the T2A and iphone, the brakes lights came on and stayed on. Actuating the brake pedal did nothing. I had to turn off and restart the car to return to normal. I hesitate to even mention this as weird as it sounds. However, I have had no issues of this kind or any other electrical kind since installing the Introvee system.

 

It is snowing here so no road-testing can be done. I do want to continue the Spodify/Pandora tests asap.

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The 'Wrong iPod Artist X got Y" messages are where the KCA-420i has been asked for Artist number X and the KCA-420i returned Artist Y.  It's a problem with the KCA-420i that the Intravee detects and works around by re-requesting the Artist (or Playlist, Album or Song) that it originally asked for.  If you were to see many messages with the same numbers, this would be a more serious problem.

 

"Poll Expected but not seen" is given when the radio to CD Changer poll message should have occurred but hasn't.  The Intravee sends the response anyway, if it does not the audio source will drop back to radio. It's a problem with the radio that the Intravee detects and works around.  It usually happens about 2 minutes after turning on the ignition.

 

The brake lights could be the Intravee, but they could also be the LCM.  If it happens again, unplug the Intravee 3 pin connector, if the lights do NOT go out within 20 seconds then the Intravee is not the cause.  If they do go out, the Intravee may be the cause.

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Thanks. Pandora does cut off. Brake lights behaving fine. I did have an Alpine Sirius unit wired into the KCA and Intravee. It wasn't being used so I removed it. Do you think the ULF is interfering?

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Done testing for today. It seems that the cutoffs correlate to the "Wrong Artist" error. However, I haven't the knowledge of these electronics to go any further and the Intravee works fine connected directly to an ipod. I did see on the Nissan GTR and the Infiniti portals that they needed to add a separate power source to the T2A in order to get it to work. I doubt this relates to our issues but I thought it interesting...something about a cablejive dockstubz with the power usb which they installed between the cable and the T2A.

 

Richard, many thanks for your quick and thorough responses. Clearly, if anyone could figure this out, you could. Perhaps a solution will happen upon us in the future.

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I did see on the Nissan GTR and the Infiniti portals that they needed to add a separate power source to the T2A in order to get it to work. I doubt this relates to our issues but I thought it interesting...something about a cablejive dockstubz with the power usb which they installed between the cable and the T2A.

 

Yes you definitely need to add USB power to the T2A. Then, using a dockXtender cable you can wrap any/all connectors then bury them behind something, leaving only a clean, black Lightning adapter showing...

Edited by Shled

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I doubt it's anything to do with the ULF, I get the same dropout problem on the bench with no other bluetooth devices.

It's possible the wrong artist messages could be caused by the T2A or it could be the wrong artist is causing the T2A to crash, very difficult to test!

I tried using a Ridax charge converter which has the option to inject power, same result. It may be worth trying a Dock Stubs if others have had success with it.

I got a reply back from the T2A support, they just said that it was designed to work with factory iPod interfaces and not 3rd party head units. Total cop out and utterly irrelevant, so not the type or response I was hoping for after the initial replies.

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