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Right, ok, so if I just had Intravee and no other audio equipment going in like processors etc. and I just connected it up to the CD and Ibus ports from the omitted BMW CD changer, then connect my Ipod and KCA-420 to the Ai-Net input, would I hear audio from the Ipod with nav and speed camera alerts etc. over the top?  I thought that's how it worked?

Yes, that's correct, the Breakout Box is ONLY used when you have an Alpine processor. OK, not 100% true, see below!

 

Then, if I have a processor like the H100, that takes the audio signal straight out from the KCA-420 but will not pick-up the nav, telephone audio without the breakout box to feed the audio back in from the BM54, right?

Sort of, but not quite!

There are two ways to connect the H100, more ways to connect the H700/H701/H800! One way is to connect the KCA-420i direct to the processor, in which case you get no merged Nav audio, but due to the limited input capability of the H100 you still need the breakout box. The other way is to use the 3rd port on the Breakout box to get audio back via the Intravee into the radio, then out again to the processor and retain merged audio.

 

But in my case, I am using a BitOne processor which will be taking low level full range audio signals from the RCA mod from the BM54.  So all I will get is audio from the BM54, but not audio from the Ipod due to the Intravee not sending an audio signal back into the BM54, is that what you are implying?  If that is the case then my assumption in the first paragraph is wrong, as if the Intravee sent an audio signal back into the BM54 I would be able to pick it up from the modded RCA preouts?

Using the BitOne is totally different to an Alpine processor. However, you could do something similar with regards to audio.

You could just connect everything up normally, all audio would go into the BM54 and out of the pre-outs into the BitOne.

You could split the audio out of the KCA-420i (a Breakout Box would allow you to do this, but you could just butcher an AI-Net cable), and send the audio directly into a second input to the BitOne. You would have to manually change source on the BitOne when selecting the Intravee source though.

The advantage that you have with the Alpine processors is that everything is seamless, the Intravee controls the processor via the standard BMW controls, in regular operation you don't even know it's there. As the Intravee sets the BM53/54 to DSP mode it's output is fixed and the Alpine processor controls the volume, there is no noise floor issue.

With the BitOne you have to either use a fixed input level and control it with it's own volume control or use a LOC and use the radio's volume. The former is a bit of a pain, the latter introduces problems at low volumes as the BitOne volume is always set high and amplifies any noise coming from the BM53/54.

 

God this is confusing, sorry for my ignorance in understanding how it all works, desperately trying to get my head around it all!

It's not dead straight forwards, but installing a processor never is, let alone connecting one up to a factory system!

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Sorry to hijack the thread but I'm having a couple of problems and I'm wondering how to fix. I know the intravee mimicks the dsp but I'm trying to eliminate the dsp from my hu/bm54 and get the full range signal.  My current setup has the pss on, no breakout box and a Pxa-701 with rux.  The audio from the bm-54 is running to the aux input of the pxa-701.  I'll disconnect the battery to reset the system with the intravee unplugged and all works fine for 1 cycle (full range signal).  Once the car is shut off and turned back on the dsp i.e.90% crossed over signal returns.  Any suggestions other than having the car re-coded. I'd rather not use a summing loc and all 4  (F&R)inputs from the bm54 (unless its my only option).   Also, has anyone noticed the antenna strength is degraded? It may just be my class d amps, i know.

Edited by Cristofor Maloof

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As soon as the Intravee detects the PXA processor it sends messages that indicate to the radio that the DSP amp is installed. As soon as the radio sees the DSP amp messages it switches to the fixed output mode.

If you have the radio output going to the PXA processor then what is the problem with using the fixed output levels?

Can't say I've noticed any problem with the radio signal, but I'm not running class D amps.

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Also, I don't know if you remember me.  I was the guy who tried to use pss on and the guide portion of the pxa for the nav/tel sound.  I gave up after 3 different relay's didn't do the job.  I kept running into level matching problems and got really degraded sound. Thanks for all your help.

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Have you compared the outputs of the front and rear speakers? i.e swap the LOC from the fronts to the rear, is the problem the same? What type of radio module do you have?

I've not heard of a problem like this before, but I don't know of anyone else with the PXA in an X5!

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not using an loc at all, I'm using the front outputs from the BM53/54.  The setup was weird when I removed the dsp amp and cd changer the gear had both analog and digital inputs, i.e. the digital coax and the square analog plug.  the nav unit uses the digital coax and the analog as well.  It's kind of a weird setup.  Here's a pic of my final install.  I made a custom rack from aluminum 

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Some cars made after the introduction of the BM54 have both the analogue and digital connectors, but only the analogue connector is used.

The Nav coax that is the same as the digital CD Changer audio connector is actually the GPS receiver cable, it does not have digital audio.

Your audio problem may be the level of the speaker output, as far as I'm aware the H701 does not have speaker level input capability, only the H800 has that. You could try taking the input direct from the rear speakers, if the BM54 is cutting bass from the front only it may change things.

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Got it.  Yeah the 701 will handle the balanced input. Oh wait, if the bm54 reverts to dsp does that mean the outputs are not balanced but rather speaker level? That is most likely the problem, cause I know in dsp mode the bm53/54 sends a flat speaker level signal that is summed and crossed over by the dsp amp which generates it own subwoofer output.  What would happen if I changed the ui to 0 cd changer interface.  Would it still see the intravee as a dsp? Would the ipod still function with the pss on? Would I be able to route radio signal through the pxa?  The other option is that I can recode the car.  My mechanic tells me that he can force non-dsp somehow.  Will that mess up the intravee interface?

Edited by Cristofor Maloof

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Setting UI 0 will not change the DSP emulation. Currently if a PXA is detected the Intravee emulates the DSP amp.

Forcing non DSP (which I don't think you can do) will cause volume (and other) problems, both the radio and H701 will respond to the commands.

If you want the radio to run in regular mode, with volume control etc. I'd have to modify the firmware to have a 'no DSP emulation' mode whereby the Intravee does not emulate the DSP and the PXA volume is fixed (maybe some other changes too).

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O.K. I'll try the rear outputs and see what happens, do you know if the nav, bluetooth will work with the radio, should I get a summing loc and use all 4 outputs and sum them? I'm thinking an audio control lc6.  Problem is I've had noise issues with these in the past.

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If it's not hard to do, try the rears, I think you'll find that you have no, or very quiet, Nav and Phone.

I can do a mod to the firmware if you like before you try a summing LOC, not sure why you're having the problem in the first place though! Can it be 'dialled out' using the sub gain and crossover settings?

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image

image 1

Here's a couple of pics of how i integrated the rux. I'm considering removing the intravee and going with a different ipod connector.  I have minimal control over the dsp with the intravee anyhow.  I also have an e46 with nav that I'm considering installing the intravee/pxa-h100.  I've got the x-5 setup with a 3 way active front and 2-way active rear.  If I use a different ipod integrator I'll get the full range signal out of the bm53 and retain the nav/bluetooth.

Edited by Cristofor Maloof

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Thanks RIchard, that has helped clear things up a bit in my head!

 

Using the BitOne is totally different to an Alpine processor. However, you could do something similar with regards to audio.

You could just connect everything up normally, all audio would go into the BM54 and out of the pre-outs into the BitOne.

You could split the audio out of the KCA-420i (a Breakout Box would allow you to do this, but you could just butcher an AI-Net cable), and send the audio directly into a second input to the BitOne. You would have to manually change source on the BitOne when selecting the Intravee source though.

 

Great, that's what I think I'll do then, I'll have the audio come out from the BM54 and in to my BitOne which will flatten the EQ.  I will set my head unit volume to max un-clipped level (and knock it down a little to allow for the GAL to increase with speed which I can't get rid of), then the BitOne controller will be mounted in the ashtray as a master volume, that doesn't bother me using that as the master volume.

 

However, I wonder if there is a way to trick the BM54 into DSP mode through intravee? That would then give a constant level to my BitOne, but I'm sure it's not that easy right?

 

As you suggest, I could maybe split the KCA-420 audio and take it in through the AUX on the BitOne and use a Breakout Box to feed the nav audio back in, but I'm not sure I will gain anything in terms of sound quality over taking the feed direct from the BM54.  What do you think?

 

When I am not using nav or anything though, I plan to also have an Alpine S624 operated from the IV Switch which will send an optical signal straight to the BitOne for ultimate sound quality.  I presume there will be no conflicting issues running the switch to chose between the CD changer and the KCA420?

 

The advantage that you have with the Alpine processors is that everything is seamless, the Intravee controls the processor via the standard BMW controls, in regular operation you don't even know it's there. As the Intravee sets the BM53/54 to DSP mode it's output is fixed and the Alpine processor controls the volume, there is no noise floor issue.

 

But do the alpine processors signal sum the audio to give a flat EQ to tune from do you know?

 

I would consider a H701 (H800 would be nice but to expensive), but I understand you need the RUX controller to tune the system which is a full size din headunit so out of the question really.  Unless you get full control of the processor via the nav screen for time alignment, crossover points and slopes etc. ?

 

Thanks for you continued support!

 

Del

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Sorry, I hijacked your thread but your solution seems to be my problem.  The intravee automatically puts the bm54 in dsp mode which give the flat signal.  The problem I'm having is it seems the signal is missing the sub-bass information from like 200-300 hz down.  I'd love to see your setup with the bitone as I've always wanted to mess around with one in a bmw.  If I were using a bitone I'd bypass the kca420 and connect the ipod via toslink. If you use losless on your ipod you'll actually get better sq than with the cd or dvd changer.  I've done an ipod integration with bitone using the following piece:  http://www.pure.com/product/i-20-vl-61429/

 

Its called an ipure and has a really nice dac for $99, actually rivals products costing thousands.  The nice thing is it gives a toslink output which bypasses the dac in the ipod and uses it's own.  You can take the device apart and mount the pieces stealth in your car.  Also, it comes with a remote control.  The only tricky part is it's setup for ac, but it take 5v from your remote + in your car.  The nice thing is it remembers the last song you were playing when it turns back on...

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Cristofor, I just want to go back to basics for a moment regarding your install. Please just answer the questions below for now.

You say you are using "pss on", so the KCA-420i is connected to the "Changer In" Ai-Net port on the H701, correct?

You say that the bass response is down from 200-300 Hz, correct?

Is the bass response down on the iPod, other sources, or both?

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That setup is correct.  The ipod frequency response is fantastic.  I have the eq off on the ipod and control all sound shaping with the 701.  When I switch the source to the radio i loose all low end bass.  For the radio inputs I have created RCA inputs from the BM53 to the aux input on the pxa-h701.  Because the intravee mimic's the dsp, I'm getting a 2 channel compressed signal from the bm53 rather than a 4 channel full range signal as mentioned in the article I referenced earlier.  Essentially, If I can trick the car into believing it not connected to the dsp, I'll get a full range balanced signal from the bm53 (5v to be exact), no loc, ,no summing needed.  I understand that with the h-100 you need the ability to control the processor from the hu.  Because I have the rux, it's not necessary and I'd rather just have the balanced outputs from the radio and do all tuning directly from the rux.

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Well, I have no idea what your problem is, I use the BM54/53 front outputs, as do most other people, and it works fine as far as I can tell.  There is no '2 channel compressed' output from the BM54/53 unless this is something specific to the X5, I don't know anyone that is using a summing LOC.  The whole point of the BM54/53 DSP mode is that the signal is as 'flat' as possible and the BMW DSP amp does the processing.

 

If you had the radio working in non DSP mode, how would you control the volume?  Just turn it up to some fixed point and use the RUX to change it in day to day use?

 

The H701 does actually have full AI-Net control, it's just there is so much you can adjust that the menu limitations of the BMW Nav system would make it almost unusable, there would be about 30 menus just to adjust the Equaliser.

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Perhaps, I've got it wired incorrectly.  I put a meter on the rear outputs from the bm53 and get absolutely nothing.  I can't think of another way of getting a radio signal other than hooking the dsp amp back up and using a summing loc.  As far as the 701 menus are concerned I understand the tree would be a mess.  With the system set in non dsp mode, the hu volume knob would adjust the input voltage into the 701 using the bm53 volume control (i.e. non-dsp wiil revert the system to full analog)

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Hooking up the DSP amp would not be a good solution, too many channels, too much processing, too many devices and you could not use the Intravee to control the H100 at all.
 
You could take the pre amp outputs from the radio, it's quite easy. http://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/showthread.php?t=35691

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