alan1272

the 518i and the m52...

138 posts in this topic

it now has a propshaft that fits!

had the original prop shortened and balanced by Firow in Holmes chapel; they have done a very nice job of it.

 

20140316_132407_zpsbd4c2544.jpg

 

20140316_132416_zps5f3ab1de.jpg

 

with it in position i can now see how good a job i did lining the engine a box up straigh in the car; i'm reasonably pleased with my guesswork but it could be better so i'll try and tweek it a little by slackening the mounts and using some big pry bars!

 

i've also picked up a new daily to replace my E34 518i. it's a nice little 525i touring :-D with leather and a manual box :-D it needs a little tidy up here and there but it'll do me, plus i can get my mountain bike in the back!

 

20140309_161255_zps92871e05.jpg

 

20140308_181508_zps1da0ca3b.jpg

 

my old 518i is for sale if anyone is after a daily, lots of t&t and only asking 500 :wink:

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i've now finished the front end rebuild on the Reliant Scimitar that has kept me busy over the winter, so it's back to the E28 at last!

 

With the propshaft all bolted into place i could put the heat shielding back on and start making the exhaust. i spent hours looking through my garages trying to find the heat shielding only to come to the conclusion that it never had any! this was after i had spent some time confused as to why i could find nowhere to attach what turned out to be an E30 heat shield :rolleyes:

 

one of my friends who works in the motor trade has collected lots of exhaust bends and pipes in 2 1/4 inch and 2 3/8 inch flavours and i also have some left over from making an exhaust for my rally car, so as soon as i get my hands on a suitable sized silencer i can start building the system. i intend to make it a single pipe system as this is a lot easier to make; it's gonna be enough of a ball-ache doing it with the car on axle stands without adding the complexity of a twin pipe system!

 

i could do with shots of the undersides of any E28s showing the exhaust routing for inspiration, so please post any you have! thanks.

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I routed mine the same route as a normal exhaust, but with a single pipe. We used the 328 exhaust manifold, then created a 2 into 1. This was flanged just after to make removing the exhaust much easier (I recommend doing this, so the main length is in 2 bits).

 

I'll try to get a photo or 2 tomorrow, as I'll be working on it anyway. Ironically it doesn't quite fit in the new car, due to the engine sitting differently, but you'll get the idea.

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I routed mine the same route as a normal exhaust, but with a single pipe. We used the 328 exhaust manifold, then created a 2 into 1. This was flanged just after to make removing the exhaust much easier (I recommend doing this, so the main length is in 2 bits).

 

yeah, i'm doing exactly the same. the problem being i binned the original exhaust over 12 months ago so i have no idea where it was routed! plus being a 518i it doesnt even have a hanger bracket on the rear beam, only the one down by the fuel tank.

 

i'm really not looking forward to this job; crawl under car, measure, mark, get out, cut, get in, try, get out, cut, get in, try, get out, throw away, get new piece, get in.....you get the idea :-)

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HOWDY!  :-P 

Stumbled upon the amazing works of Alan and thought I would introduce myself. Maybe I can help and hopefully rob some advice from the kind folk of this thread 

 

 

I'm Darren, from London and this is my absolute pride and joy:

 

 

 

 IMG_3972_zpse3a9a4ee.jpg

 

 

 

1987 520i that's covered a mammoth............ 72k miles ;)

 

 

This is what I had her running before:

 

 

23092011125_zps126d1ccb.jpg

 

 

 

And now (so far):

 

 

IMG_7301_zps2a2b2c14.jpg

 

 

 

I got my M50B25 from a donor car which was a '91 E34 manual. The car ran great but knocking on the 200k mile's door, I decided to completely rebuild the lump which is always fun :P

 

 

All parts are new (Mostly from the stealer) apart from the big chunky bits (Cams, Crank, Head, Sump etc etc). Far to many bits to list (and a receipt long enough to make any bloke's balls ache) 

 

 

Main bits:

 

 

- Rebuilt oil pump with all new seals and bolts 

 

- Machined/Recon original crankshaft to .25 oversize

 

- New oversized bearing shells (Main and Conrods)

 

- New piston gudgin pins

 

- New piston rings

 

- Rebuilt skimmed head with new plugs and seals. Valves all lapped and tight as a nun's....

 

- All new auxiliaries (Belts, pullys etc.. etc... the usual... etc..)

 

- Reconditioned Porsche 944 booster

 

- M20 Flywheel/Clutch 

 

List goes on.. .blah blah

 

 

Car has been off road for nearly 2 years now because, alot has happened since I first started. Starting to get back into the swing of things..

 

 

I'm currently concentrating on the way the engine is sitting..

 

 

Positioning

 

 

If anyone wants to know, THIS(image above) is what it looks like with the following:

 

 

- M20 transmission (Getrag 240 if i remember correctly....)

 

- M20 engine arms (they bolt on no probs but closer to the front end apposed to where the E34 arms are originally. Holes are there, don't worry.

 

- E28 M20 engine rubber mounts (Plus a few metal washers I was messing around with as you can see)

 

 

I love the position because the linkage should be unaffected and I have tonnes of room to clear my RHD steering box. Sump isn’t looking to shabby either apart from I would prop up both mounts with some steel plating to get the sump away from the road a bit more. Probably another inch and a half would be lovely. There is a massive but……… BUT, the intake won’t allow the Porsche 944 booster to bolt up. Not by a long shot! I need to find about 60mm of space. You can see the position I’m in from the photo. Arghhh! I’m a bit stuck. Would rather not go down the route of custom engine arms.

 

 

Has anyone any ideas?

 

 

I’ll messa round with some metal plating within the week and report back my findings…

 

 

Am I right by assuming that I’ll be okay to move the engine forward a wee bit (maybe an inch or so) via some angle bar as far as the prop shaft is concerned? It’s currently connected up nicely to the tran so, would a shunt forward a little bit effect anything? It’s “Okay†where it is but, it’s a little too close in the back for my liking.

 

 

Would be great to hear back from some of you guys

 

 

Daz

Edited by dazh90

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Looks good mate!

 

Several things on mine:
A. the front half of my prop is an E30 one, the E28 definitely won't fit. I've got an M50B25 and original 520i gearbox that sits in the right place too. You really want the engine as far back as poss, the prop length is very tricky, mine is close to the length limit.

B. my brake booster is from a renault clio.

C. I have 328i exhaust manifolds.

D. There was no way I could get the engine to clear with the standard mounts tweaked. I'm using the standard rubber mounts, but have welded a platform to the left side of the subframe to raise and align the engine, the right side sits fine and the height with a standard rubber mount is good, but it's too far forward, so, once again, out came the 6mm steel.

E. I made a custom gearbox mount out of some square tubing. Hopefully it'll hold, only 1 way to find out!

 

I am using the E34 metal engine mounts though, not 520i ones. So no 'custom engine arms' for me, just 'custom engine mounts/platforms'. It was a ballache to do, 1 person laying under the car aligning everything, then cutting cardboard templates up, crawling out, welding, checking, welding, checking, placing in, welding more and hoping it fitted.

 

I've also fitted a Black Diamond stage 2 clutch for a 520i. Original 520i clutch with M50 2.5 power? Doesn't last so long. Especially since I'm looking at the turbo route sometime :P

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Awesome doode :D

 

Ahhhh you see, my prop E28 prop works great because I'm using the M20 arms that push the engine back! Literally puts the engine where the M20 was...

 

I'm using the 328i manifolds too :) front one will need chopping like Alan's but, yeah... all good as they're tubular :)

 

Any chance of some photos of your engine arms and the platforms? I would really.... REALLY.... appreciate it. I can pay in internet kudos :P

 

Daz

 

I remember your car when that.... "NoodleSoup" fella had it. Wow... it's come a long way since then mate!! wow...

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wow it looks like M5X E28's will be old hat by the time i get mine finished :-D

 

hi Daz, your car looks like it's coming along nicely.

using the m20 mounts you engine is sitting a little more upright than mine, i'd be interested to see a pic of the sump angle.

 

you could possibly use a clio or 1.3 MK2 golf servo to get roung the clearance issue you have, there's a couple of pics earlier in the thread of my clio one.

 

as for moving your engine forward a bit, as long as your prop has a sliding centre joint it should be ok. just loosen it beore hand, move the engine, then tighten the centre nut back up. don't go too mad though, leave plenty of spline inside the joint.

people may talk about moving the engine forward being bad for weight distribution etc. but in a chassis design thats pushing 40 years old i doubt you'll notice :-D

 

if you need any help just shout, i'm no expert but i'll try my best.

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Hey Alan,

 

My car has been off the road before your post ageeees ago saying "I'm thinking about doing an M5* swap" haha so really, you have done MUCH MUCH better than me time wise. I've been a casual reader of your project and P.cutouts work since the beginning, just never stepped forward to introduce myself  ^_^

 

Looks GREAT mate, you should be really really proud.

 

I've settled on the Porsche 944 booster. I've bought one, shortened the push rod with the E28's connector leading into the cab and it fits perfectly. It's much much smaller than the original and I'm sure it's not far off the Clio's diameter. I'm happy with it but honestly, the way the intake sits at this very moment, there is no room for absolutely ANY brake booster to attach. The engine really really must rotate for even the slightest chance of getting brakes in her. 

 

1656400_1454377658115144_925843197_n_zps

 

This is the Porsche 944 booster ready to bolt up  ;)

 

As requested, this is a photo of the sump position with just the E28 arms, E28 rubber mounts holding the M50 in. 

 

IMG_4198_zps73897115.jpg

 

As you can see, the left side of the pan is fine. The right side is unacceptably low and will not only hit speed bumps, but will also cause oil pick-up issues. I got it to go perfectly flat/flush with the road by adding 1inch of metal washers (temporary method of getting angles sorted) to the n/s rubber mount. You can see those washers in one of the above photos. 

 

As i said before, I'm 100% happy with the way that engine sits BUT..... the brake booster is the issue right now therefore a rotation is needed unfortunately :unsure:  

 

I've had your idea of using 1/8inch(3mm) steel angle bar bouncing around in my head since you first posted it ages ago. I've found some on ebay with the following dimensions:

3mm thick steel with side lengths ranging from 20mm to 40mm   OR    5mm thick steel with side lengths ranging from 40mm to 60mm

 

I'm swinging towards (5mm x 60mm x 60mm). Thoughts on that? 

 

Daz

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it's a tricky one. it looks like you need the engine at the stock angle to give clearance for the servo. in theory with an m20 box the stock angle for the engine will mean the box is canted over. Papercutout doesnt seem to have this issue though so maybe he's better placed to help?

 

are you intending to make mount arms from the angle iron? if so go big as it's a better to go overkill than risk a failure in my view; although im sure 3mm thick stuff would be fine with boxing/gusseting in the right places.

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Always great to come home and have a reply on this thread  :D  getting me back into things this is..

 

Right... M20 mounts are not cutting the mustard. Time for another plan. Ima dig out the M50 arms!  ^_^  this will leave my box cantered over but, I shall deal with that noooooo worries. Will be fun....

 

Angle bar would be used to shunt the engine forward/back. Sorry, I thought YOU done this but after re-reading this thread I got you confused with someone else :P

 

IMG_0823.jpg

 

With the M50 arms making the engine sit more FORWARD which isn't great for sitting my 330Ci and electric fan in, I will probably use the inverse of this example(above) to push the engine BACK a bit towards the bulkhead. 

 

The thing with Mr.Cutout's transmission is, I believe it is the ZF box from the donor car. NOT the Getrag I'm using from the E28. This is what I read from the original build thread:

 

noodlesoupZFbox_zps85f0d665.png

 

Hmmmmm

 

Daz

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I read that to mean he used the E28 520i standard ZF box.

same here, but thinking about it now, did the e28s have ZF manuals or were all BMWs of that period Getrag equiped? my donor car (E36) had a ZF so i now guess he meant it was the ZF from the M5X donor.

 

i couldnt get the engine anywhere near with the standard M52 E36 mounting arms, i didnt have any E34 ones to try. as far as i can remember it was clashing on the steering box and it wanted to put the engine back through the bulkhead to get the holes to line up.

 

that pic with the angle doesnt exactly float my boat. i like a good bodge but thats a bit far for me. if the angle was welded to the subframe and gusseted a bit it'd look a lot closer to being right; as it is, all the force is going through one bolt in the angle/subframe :?

Edited by alan1272

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Ok, so I'm back from work! I read it to mean the ZF box from a 520i too, especially since he says 'box, clutch and flywheel', and I've just fitted a stage 2 clutch for a 520i, that bolted up perfectly. I'd have been pretty cheesed if I'd ordered that, and found that it was the M50 flywheel and it didn't fit...

 

He does say he heated the gear selector and twisted it. I've seen no evidence of this (didn't think to look though), but since then I've changed a bunch of selector stuff as it was shot to pieces and sloppy as hell. I've also got a Z3 shifter fitted with is RIDICULOUSLY short. A bit too short really. Box doesn't appear canted from the shifter POV, but the mounts are definitely not parallel heights, which made making a G/B mount a royal pain, as I couldn't reuse the one Noodle Soup used, due to having tweaked the engine over from where he had it.

 

 

Regarding the angle iron, I've actually got a similar setup, except in stead of angle iron, I have a 6mm piece of plate. I'm hoping it holds OK, if not, we'll bash the welder out again and weld it in place. It does mean tweaking the engine position is easier though... (when it's loose)

 

 

 

I've also since fitted an E36 rad too. Made it clear the viscous fan no problemo. I'm not working from Friday onwards, if you want photos of anything, please say. Just don't criticise the welding :P (it's strong, not pretty)

Edited by papercutout

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Guys, I think we can conclude that ya man Mr Noodle used the transmission from the donor car with an M20 flywheel and clutch. If it is a ZF box, it was from the donor car (E34 and E36 has ZF boxes. My E34 donor car had a ZF box). Not a problem dude! sounds like a good set up. They are mighty strong boxes and with that lightweight flywheel from the M20, I'm sure it's a great combination. I favored the Getrag as it's lighter.

 

I'm going to experiment with the angle bar me thinks.It is a bodge as you say Alan but.... If it sits the block nicely in place, I'll defo get it pro-welded in place. I'll also use a MEAAAAAN bolt dude  :wink:. I'll keep this thread nicely updated 

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My E28 520i (Manufactured 2/86) was fitted with a ZF manual box.

ah really? i'd never seen one on anything that early (but i hadn't researched it either tbf).

 

Papercutout: any chance of a picture of your 'box and all the mounts please? i'd like to make this thread a good reference for anyone attempting the conversion in future. :-)

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Hey John,

 

Your 520i from '86 should of been manufactured with a Getrag box. ZF if it was Auto but Getrag if Manual.... like mine. Mine's a '87 so our cars should be pretty much identical. 

 

A picture of Mr.Cutout's box would be awesome! Although I've decided on the Getrag from my E28, it is sure to help out others...

 

Daz

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I'll get photos on Friday or Saturday of as many bits as I can! Where (out of curiosity) will it say 'ZF' or 'Getrag' on the g/b?

 

It's certainly looking interesting with all these M5X'd E28's happening isn't it? Although they're all happening very slowly!

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It will say it on the side but... if you take a photo of the under neigh, I'll be able to tell if it's ZF/Getrag =D

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