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alan1272

the 518i and the m52...

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Well, my sump doesn't hit, which is weird!

How interested would you be in making a second set of engine mounts, exactly the same, and selling them to me? And yes, it's running, and I'll happily share all wiring knowledge with you! (I'm no good at autoelectrics though, hence asking in the first place! Guess I'll just have to copy and improve on what I've got!)

There's another M50'd E28 on here, his is more sorted than mine is. Lastly, I'll be interesting to see how you do the throttle, because mine is, once again, weird!

i've got to admit the thought of making another set of mounts doesn't exactly make me feel all warm inside. getting hold of the the material was a bit of a one off, they haven't been properly tested yet and there may be differences between the m50 and m52. without making a jig for them it's a rather involved process which i don't really want to do again, sorry. i'll happily supply measurements though.

also, if you change engine mounts then you'll have to modify your exhausts which, as i'm finding at the moment, is a pain in the arse. if you have any pics of this car i'd be very interested to see them. :-)

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Haha, I can understand that! There's no difference between how the engines mount though, I've spent enough time with E36 owners to know that!

I'll only be moving the engine half an inch forward or so, and the exhaust can move that far with no problems. I've got the 2.8 exhaust manifold like you have anyway, and the rest of the system has enough flex to move at least an inch if I needed it to. What would you like pics of?

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What would you like pics of?

sorry i forgot to get pics of the gap between the engine and bulkhead today, i'll make it a priority for tomorrow.

if you can just get a couple of general shots of the engine bay so i can see how the wiring sits that would be great :-D

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When i first thought about this project, i tried to weigh up where the real difficult areas would be. i thought to myself "i bet the exhaust manifolds will be a bit tricky." it turns out i am the master of understatement. i NEVER want to do that again.

*note: this has all been made only using bits from the donor cars exhaust system. (so nice and cheap!)*

anyway, here's the pics.

the rear manifold cleared the steering box without modification, just the downpipe needed shortening to fit above the arb. the front manifold need a LOT of modification.

front manifold and rear downpipe:

20121123_124452.jpg

20121123_125655.jpg

getting the front manifold and downpipe clearance to the rear manifold, the block, the steering box and linkage was what took up most of my time.

20121123_160502.jpg

the clearance to the gearbox

20121123_160448.jpg

clearance to block

20121123_160611.jpg

finished (ish) manifold

20121129_161541.jpg

the rest of the system will be a piece of piss after that.

Edited by alan1272

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Haha, you really want a photo of my wiring? It's a POS! It's one of the things we're DEFINITELY changing when I reshell the car! We'll try to reroute the entire lot, and tidy it up. Currently it's a big wrapped mess that comes through the hole behind the glovebox, is all tape-wrapped and the guy cut a chunk out of the air scoopy thing on the bonnet underside so it'd not damage it.

 

I'll get photos anyway, but it's aweful. Cut wires left bare, the fusebox wasn't held down, lots of stuff not adding up...

 

 

 

Surprised you had so many exhaust problems. I've got the M52 2.8 manifold on mine, and it was evidently a straight fit - it's not been cut up at all! Maybe there's actually something to say for having the engine basically touching the firewall?

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Surprised you had so many exhaust problems. I've got the M52 2.8 manifold on mine, and it was evidently a straight fit - it's not been cut up at all! Maybe there's actually something to say for having the engine basically touching the firewall?

 

hmm, what gearbox is your car using? if it's an m20 box the engine may be sitting more upright which would solve the exhaust issues but leave the sump at an angle.

 

the only other way i could avoid the exhaust clashing is to  move the engine over to the passenger side an inch or two.

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Yup, M20 gearbox. Oh fiddlesticks, I was thinking about changing to an M50 gearbox so I could get better final ratio's (I wanted shorter gearing), but if it's going to introduce a whole load of problems, then screw that.

Btw, mine seemed to eat through the gearbox to propshaft donuts quite quickly, but if you're using the M50 gearbox, you'll have a bigger donut. Another thing I want to try to convert...! (bigger donut = stronger)

What will you be using as the first half of your propshaft?

 

Sorry I've not got photos, I've spent the whole day clearing out the garage it's moving into! Just found this on my photobucket though:

 

SAM_1148.jpg

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Yup, M20 gearbox. Oh fiddlesticks, I was thinking about changing to an M50 gearbox so I could get better final ratio's (I wanted shorter gearing), but if it's going to introduce a whole load of problems, then screw that.

Btw, mine seemed to eat through the gearbox to propshaft donuts quite quickly, but if you're using the M50 gearbox, you'll have a bigger donut. Another thing I want to try to convert...! (bigger donut = stronger)

What will you be using as the first half of your propshaft?

 

Sorry I've not got photos, I've spent the whole day clearing out the garage it's moving into! Just found this on my photobucket though:

 

SAM_1148.jpg

it's difficult to tell, but it doesn't seem to be that upright, the best way to tell is to see if the box is sitting flat or canted over. does your gearstick sit at an unusual angle?

m42 and m20 boxes have the same bolt patterns on the bell housing but at different angles. the m42 is more canted over than the m20 and at the same angle as the m50/m52. if m20 boxes are fitted then the engine can either be installed at the more upright angle of an m20 or at the standard angle with the box canted over and a modified gear linkage.

so if you box is sitting at an angle then it should be possible to fit an m50 box without to many issues.

 

if it's chewing prop guibos (donuts) then the engine and box it may not be aligned straight in the bay and therefore to the prop, i tried to make sure mine was as straight as possible to avoid this issue.

 

propshafts are the next headache. i have an e30 320i prop to try, i'm also going to get under my e30 318is and e34 518i and measure the props to see if they'll fit. if i can't find an easy solution then i'll probably take my existing prop to a local company who will shorten and balance if for me.

 

it doesn't look like too much of a mess from that pic, a tidy up of the wiring and a wrap in some decent loom tape would help; and you can lose the header tank if you get a rad from an m50 e36 or e34 with the built in header.

 

 

a close up pic of the wiring coming from the fusebox to the c101 would make my day; a table detailing the connections would make my year :-)

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I'd guess that PaperC's engine is either at the correct M5* angle or perhaps just tilted looking at that bay picture. I know how awesomely low his car is, he wouldn't get away with having the engine tilted for the correct angle for an M20 box. I know as I tilted an M50 vertically to the M20 box angle, this is the only way to fit the engine in an E21 due to clearance with the steering column. If you tilt vertically then you will need a custom sump. Coincidentally if you tilted the M5* engine vertically you could use E28 M20 engine mounts as a direct fit, though I think it wouldn't work because of engine clearance against the brake servo. Definitely keep the M5* engines at their correct angle unless absolutely necessary, custom sumps and pickups are a pain...

 

E30 props would be best to try due to the extendable joint. I would have thought E30 to M50 wiring diagrams would have been a good help, most of the BMW wiring is very consistent over the years. My mate wired up the C101 to the E21 fusebox in a matter of minutes.

 

I'm loving the work on this thread, looking forward to more updates :)

 

My standard E34 M50 sump after a few months on the road at the tilted angle, note the missing nuts on the sensor...

DSCF5182.jpg

 

Custom sump to take care of the issue

DSCF5186.jpg

 

Tilted engine angle

P1070353.jpg

Edited by rob0r

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Sorry for forgetting to reply sooner, Robor has just reminded me!

 

The G/B has a stock rubber 1 side, and a converted engine mount the other, so it's definitely all at an angle. The gearstick doesn't seem to be at a funny angle though!

 

Despite my sump sitting quite high, it still has a bottom a bit like Robor's one pre-modification!

 

 

I'm pretty sure the prop must be slightly out of line. I'm not looking forward to correcting this, but I'll definitely have to, somehow. How did you line yours up in the best manner to avoid the problem? Robor is correct about the E30 propshafts, the front half of mine is, to my knowledge, but as I said, I recommend one with the larger flange/bolt holes so you can run the larger donut. I DO however find that, while I can support the prop with the centre bearing, it's quite tricky to line up, as it sits in a different place, thanks to a different front half of the prop. It's not significantly different though.

 

 

I recommend that when it comes to the wiring, you wire in the fuse box from something else, not the stock E28 one. As you probably know, blade fuses are easy to find, the standard crappy things aren't. And they're very temperamental! I'll try to get more photos over the weekend!

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I'm pretty sure the prop must be slightly out of line. I'm not looking forward to correcting this, but I'll definitely have to, somehow. How did you line yours up in the best manner to avoid the problem?

 

well until it's been on the road 6 months i can't say i have avoided this problem!

 

i used the front half of an old prop bolted to the box's output flange and just moved the engine and box until it was aimed as straight as possible down the tunnel. i also used a straight edge off the flange.

 

my mounts aren't finally welded yet so if when the prop is done it doesn't look right there will be some room for maneuver.

 

as for the fuse box, i'm definately keeping the e28 one. the complications of wiring in an e30 one or similar is something i do not need!

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ok after searching round the internet and getting a few pin out tables and diagrams for m50 conversions and e28s and compairing them to the plugs i have, i've made a table of the connections that i need to make that looks like this so far.

 

c101wiringpic.jpg

 

if i'm missing anything please tell me as i'm literally making this up as i go along. :-)

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i've not given up on this, just had other things on my automotive plate.

i now have a m20 starter clutch and lightened flywheel ready to go on the engine when it comes back out.

hoping to get back on it soon and finish the gear linkage and figure out the prop.

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yeah, did a bit more today. progress has been slow recently, i don't have my own workshop so have to scrounge the use of powertools from mates which can hamper things.

 

finished the cut and shut on the gear linkage today. i'd already shortened the metal selector rod, the aluminium shifting arm now also needed to be shortened by 2 inches as i couldn't find one the correct length (the 518i was too long, the 328i too short). 

 

20130216_151930_zps92b5c03e.jpg

 

chopped.

 

20130216_165129_zpsf376185f.jpg

 

i made two ali joint straps that sit in the recesses in the H section, drilled through them and then riveted it all together.

 

20130216_170257_zps32a6e6c9.jpg

all in place and i can select gears! the throw is comically long with the 518i lever, i'm gonna swap it for the one from the e36 that should make it much shorter. i'll also replace all the bushes in the linkage when the engine and box comes out again.

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did some head scratching with regards to the prop today. the e28 518i prop is too long by around 10cm, it also has a CV joint where it bolts to the diff. i've not seen that before on bmws that i've owned, they've always had a 4 bolt UJ there. it shouldn't be a massive hurdle to overcome it i need to change the drive flange on the pinion shaft of the diff for a 4 bolt one if i need to, but it's another pain in the arse.

20130218_162535_zps230e3dcb.jpg

 

i have an old e30 320i prop in my spares store so i fetched that to try. with the sliding joint in the middle extended as much as i dare it was still nearly 10cm too short.

 

20130219_120319_zpsed836ac6.jpg

 

so, my options are:

 

1. have the e28 prop shortened and balanced by a company that specialises in such matters.

 

2. spend some time researching bmw propshaft lengths to find one suitable, change the diff input flange.

 

 

 

while i consider my options on that i decided to crack on with routing the wiring.

 

first off, the ecu needed mounting. i made a cage for it out of some alloy angle and bolted it into the place where the old ecu sat.

 

20130219_150056_zpsc850e0a7.jpg

20130219_151826_zps25100a5c.jpg

 

i then took a look at the wiring harness for the ecu. when the m10 was in the car it ran through the hole in the panel on the right of the picture then in through the bulkhead via the hole in the centre of the picture.

 

20130218_165114_zps1a6743ab.jpg

 

the harness for the m52 ecu is not long enough to go this route and reach the ECU. so two options; extend the wiring or re-route.

i had it in my head that i was going to extend the wiring to make it look neat and factory, but looking at it today i think i can do a nice neat job of re-routing it and avoid a load of potential problems with dodgy electrical connections (which, on an engine i have never heard run, is probably a good thing.)

so i intend to now send the wiring through the removable black panel and then straigh through the bulkhead. the hole in the bulkhead needs enlarging slighly to fit the ecu plug through.

 

20130219_161000_zps988ee454.jpg

 

this is where the wiring will now run; i'll cut a hole in the black panel and grommet it so it'll look neat enough.

 

i've also started stripping all the standard heatshrink and rubber tubing off the loom so i can get it all to sit nicely. i'll wrap it all in self convuluting tape when it's finished to make it look nice and protect it.

 

another quick job i did was running a couple of wires from the X20 to the C103 plug behing the glovebox.

 

here's the c103

20130219_153903_zps7a1a5205.jpg

 

it's the black (tacho) and the white with black trace (fuel rate) that we want. so i had a search through an old loom to find a corresponding male plug then soldered some wires to it.

20130219_153930_zps2cefde3e.jpg

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Thanks Dan. I was wondering if it would be possible to keep it in the E28 engine compartment as it would make back probing the plug much easier. No more of grovelling around the footwell. That really does my back in! 

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