18 replies to this topic

[Kems]

For the simpleton (me), what other than more power are the benefits of a remap? Does it make the better on fuel for example? Smoother power?

I don't have a hang up on fuel consumption ( otherwise I wouldn't have brought a 535!), but I was hoping to get around 40 mpg on mostly motorway, but I'm getting mid to late 20's.

How much will a remap cost me?

Thanks

[Tacklebury]

Remaps will give you a small increase in mpg but you'll probably end up driving it harder thus getting lower mpg!!!

If you're seeing low 20's you're either caining the arse out of it or you might need a new thermostat. If its not getting above 82' when running it'll be using more juice.

Have a search for hidden e60 menu and access the engine temp.

I get around 30mpg over a tank with no motorways. I never see higher than 34 but I tend to enjoy the 535d more than I should!!

[Blobby]

I bought a kit from Ecotune, this gave me a DPF replacement pipe and two maps plus the programmer.

It is easy to remove the DPF unless you go the wrong route (like me). I am running a maxi map which gives me around 365bhp and 700nm of torque.
Cruising at 65 my average is 46 mpg. Using an iPhone App and an OBDII wireless transmitter it says my 0-60 is 5.5 seconds.

Basically if you think it pulls like a fright train now, when it's remapped it's like putting two together.
I know a few people here have remapped their 525's and 530's whilst still keeping the DPF. But i would recommend removing it because of the lack of worrying about it clogging and more importantly you will have no back pressure or regen which I have read can put excessive heat and back pressure on the large turbo causing premature failure. This I would say is a definite possibility with the LCi version as the DPF is right on the turbo, the pre-LCi is further away. I did notice removing the DPF allows the engine to rev more freely, mine did used to seem a little restrained after 4000rpm, now it doesn't

Edited by Blobby, 31 March 2012 - 02:57 PM.

[Kems]

I accessed the hidden menu to get the temperature and took it for a run along the dual carriageway for 10 mins and the temp was ranging from 74-82. It went to 89 whilst I was parking it up. Do the stats need changing do you think?

Blobby - how much is all the gear likely to cost me?

Thanks

[Blobby]

Depends on what year yours is..
£995 for pre LCi
£875 for LCi

The pre LCi is more because of the separate CAT and DPF, the LCi has it all in one. The good news is that the preLCi is a lot easier to install
Have a look for other companies. You might find someone who can manufacture the pipe and then you could find a tuner who will tune your car for an overall price cheaper.
I went the Ecotune way because you don't need to take it to a tuner. The map was derived from a 335d on a rolling road. Although from what i have read on the internet Ecotune are a very reputable tuner/developer

I might take mine to a rolling road tuner in the summer to see how it looks to see how much HP it generating.

Forgot to add as you do get the device to remap the ECU with Ecotune, so you can also revert to a more economical map if you wish (Still more power than OEM) or go back to standard and put your DPF back on in case you want to sell the car.

Also it looks like your stats need changing

Edited by Blobby, 31 March 2012 - 05:53 PM.

[Kems]

Thanks Blobby - I'll get the swirl flaps done first and whilst it's at the Indy I'll ask how much it will cost to change the stats.

I'll consider the remap in a few months when my bank balance has recovered!

[Kems]

What temp should it be running at?

[Blobby]

The stat has 88 deg written on it, so i would hope for at least that

[michal-q]

Depends on what year yours is..
£995 for pre LCi
£875 for LCi

The pre LCi is more because of the separate CAT and DPF, the LCi has it all in one. The good news is that the preLCi is a lot easier to install
Have a look for other companies. You might find someone who can manufacture the pipe and then you could find a tuner who will tune your car for an overall price cheaper.
I went the Ecotune way because you don't need to take it to a tuner. The map was derived from a 335d on a rolling road. Although from what i have read on the internet Ecotune are a very reputable tuner/developer

I might take mine to a rolling road tuner in the summer to see how it looks to see how much HP it generating.

Forgot to add as you do get the device to remap the ECU with Ecotune, so you can also revert to a more economical map if you wish (Still more power than OEM) or go back to standard and put your DPF back on in case you want to sell the car.

Also it looks like your stats need changing

Dear Blobby, please do not treat this as any kind of atack or judging you, I wrote this just to explain it to Kems, on how it should work.

I have done some research on the remap topic in the past, most professional tuners do not sell ready made maps because they are not as good as it sounds. Reason for it is that every engine is in different condition and not every engine after lets say 4-5 years still holds it's nominal power.
The best way to do it is to take your car to specialist, first do 2-3 runs on rolling road with the standard settings and compare the results, than you download the map from your car and modify it, after that you do tests on rolling road and check if everything goes as it should and the power and torque is rising properly and if there is no sudden torque gains and losses. sudden gain of torque can damage your drivetrain. In the most cases you need 2-5 tests with your new map and adjust the figures to make it the best for your engine performance.
Professionals say that every remap should be made individually for every car, that is the only way to make sure that your engine is safe and all is running as it should. When you buy something online you have no chance to check it before and after and therefore the results may not be as good as you would expect it to be.
Obviously individual tuning costs more money than ready made, because of the time tuner needs to spend with the car to get it done, but at least you get full printout with reading before and after remaping and know it's done the right way.
I personaly think that some people selling this ready made maps on ebay do not know anything about remaping but still are selling it, there is only one reason, to make money

looking forward to see your rolling road printout and compare the actual power and torque gain to expected figures.

worst than the preset maps are the "chip boxes" that you plug in, this is nothing more than a resistor that is making mass air flow sensor/meter send false reading to your car's ECU.

[Kems]

Thanks all. I've been out for a good drive today and the temperature didn't get over 80 when moving. So I think I need to change the stats. I'm going to change the EGR myself. How difficult is changing the main stat? To give an idea of the extent of my mechanical ability, I used to change pads, plugs, oil & filter changes that sort of thing. Do I need to completely drain and replace the coolant?

I'll make some enquiries out reaps locally and see what the costs are.

[Baus]

Guides:

1>>>>>> http://forums.5serie...ost__p__1407072
2>>>>>>> http://forums.5serie...04/#post1408644

 

As for your ability, according to what you've done in the past, this will be no problem for you. It's not hard, just time taking. The only major problem you'll encounter is getting the access to undo the screws (that's what'll take up most of your time). Everything else is a breeze. Yep, you do need to change the coolant if changing the main.

P.S. Cruise at 65mph in 6th gear on a flat motorway when it's 5 degrees outside, and then check your coolant temp. If it's still at 80, I'd replace only the main stat.

Edited by Baus, 30 November 2012 - 08:16 PM.

[Kems]

Thanks Baus - how do you know if the EGR stat is past it?

[Blobby]

Dear Blobby, please do not treat this as any kind of atack or judging you, I wrote this just to explain it to Kems, on how it should work.

I understand what you are saying and agree with what you are saying to a degree.

No two engines are alike i must admit, but from my bike tuning days, basic tuning profiles are very similar. I had a Suzuki Hayabusa which i had after market race cans, a device that cons the ECU into thinking it was in 5th gear all the time, this way it gave full power to all the lower gears as well as a heavily modified air box. This had a power commander interface, which changed the output signals from the ECU to the injectors and ignition timing.
Before taking it on a rolling road I loaded a generic map into the power commander, without it the midrange and top end would have been running to lean. When on the rolling road only very fine tweaking was required to the mid range as it was running slightly to rich, everything else was spot on.

What I'm trying to say is minor increases in engine tuning can be overcome with a generic map, fine tuning it may give you an extra 2-5 HP on a standard engine. From what i understand Ecotune have spent a lot of time developing their maps and error on the side of caution and I have to say the road manners of my car are perfect without any flat spots or dead zones and yet can still return good economy if necessary.
To compare them to a plug in "chip box" is a bit of an insult

[stant1man]

Professionals say that every remap should be made individually for every car, that is the only way to make sure that your engine is safe and all is running as it should. When you buy something online you have no chance to check it before and after and therefore the results may not be as good as you would expect it to be.
Obviously individual tuning costs more money than ready made, because of the time tuner needs to spend with the car to get it done, but at least you get full printout with reading before and after remaping and know it's done the right way.
I personaly think that some people selling this ready made maps on ebay do not know anything about remaping but still are selling it, there is only one reason, to make money

looking forward to see your rolling road printout and compare the actual power and torque gain to expected figures.

worst than the preset maps are the "chip boxes" that you plug in, this is nothing more than a resistor that is making mass air flow sensor/meter send false reading to your car's ECU.

Interesting post, so I suppose the 30 hours of rolling road time it took for us to develop the DPF OFF software specific on each of the BMW diesel variant was all in vane then.... darnit!

I wonder which would be better, two hours working specific on 1 car or 30 hours working on 3.....

Please accept my apologies for my slight impertinance but I personally work soooooo hard getting this right in such a fashion that all can benefit and focus soo much on the reliability yet there are a select minority who tar all with the same brush without first looking into the quality of the work. I

'm sure those that know me and the ecotune team know that a decent reputation takes a long time to establish and a short time to lose... fortunately our hard work pays off with all the positive feedback we receive on the forums and directly.

I do not think that at an additional £100 per hour of dyno time any of our customers would appreciate the extra 2 hp or the additional strain I need to put on their own vehicle in order to achieve it.

Making a file to the same quality over a 3 hour dyno session would quite simply be impossible. The BMW engines are very similar and the closed loop injection system ensures that the engine stays in tune relative to the output from all the sensors, if one engine is not taking as much air, it will refer to the lambda targets we set and adjust accordingly, if the EGT's get too high it will cut injection etc.

Im sure you mean to harm Michel, but please don't assume that all tuning companies are the same... we are very proud of the work we do and will always defend our corner for the benefit of our reputation and to ensure readers get the correct information. If you wish to know more you are more than welcome to come in and enjoy a cup of tea or a cold drink and i'll show you the software and explain why our methods work so well.

Best wishes,


Stan @ Ecotune 0845 409 4567

Edited by stant1man, 02 April 2012 - 08:10 PM.

[Baus]

Thanks Baus - how do you know if the EGR stat is past it?

ah! that's easy for you (assuming that steep driveway was yours, in those pics?) if it is, just drive up your driveway, bonnet side first and park up. Undo 5 nuts off the plastic engine cover (which I've kept permanently in my garage- it's useless and has saved some weight ). Then just follow the youtube video, take the stat off and blow through the thermostat. You should barely be able to do so on one that works properly.

Parking with the nose up means you'll loose even less coolant than when doing this on a level surface (which isn't much anyway).

N.B. most egr thermostats, stick completely in the open position when shot, so blowing will test for that. When they're slightly worn out, they open a bit too early- which you won't be able to check by blowing through it. I've not read of anyone trying this here, but if I wanted to check it's opening temperature myself, I'd stick it in a pan of water, put a thermometer in it and light the stove- and then carefully observe at what temperature the valve starts to move.

If you think it's working, you can put it back just like as you removed it. I can't remember what reg your beast is, 55 I'm guessing? If so, AND you're on the original stats, I'd say it's defo time to replace em, but replace just the main.

[Kems]

Thanks Baus - I've just done my normal run from Torquay to Bristol up the M5 this morning; set the CC at 70 and the temperature didn't go over 80. Got 36 mpg coming up. Around town is terrible, I get about 18!

[michal-q]

To compare them to a plug in "chip box" is a bit of an insult

Sorry, you are right here, i should have wrote that chip boxes are the worst case of engine tuning, i wasn't comparing them, i should have put it in different words.

Interesting post, so I suppose the 30 hours of rolling road time it took for us to develop the DPF OFF software specific on each of the BMW diesel variant was all in vane then.... darnit!

I wonder which would be better, two hours working specific on 1 car or 30 hours working on 3.....

Please accept my apologies for my slight impertinance but I personally work soooooo hard getting this right in such a fashion that all can benefit and focus soo much on the reliability yet there are a select minority who tar all with the same brush without first looking into the quality of the work. I'm sure those that know me and the ecotune team know that a decent reputation takes a long time to establish and a short time to lose... fortunately our hard work pays off with all the positive feedback we receive on the forums and directly.

I do not think that at an additional £100 per hour of dyno time any of our customers would appreciate the extra 2 hp or the additional strain I need to put on their own vehicle in order to achieve it.

Making a file to the same quality over a 3 hour dyno session would quite simply be impossible. The BMW engines are very similar and the closed loop injection system ensures that the engine stays in tune relative to the output from all the sensors, if one engine is not taking as much air, it will refer to the lambda targets we set and adjust accordingly, if the EGT's get too high it will cut injection etc.

Im sure you mean to harm Michel, but please don't assume that all tuning companies are the same... we are very proud of the work we do and will always defend our corner for the benefit of our reputation and to ensure readers get the correct information. If you wish to know more you are more than welcome to come in and enjoy a cup of tea or a cold drink and i'll show you the software and explain why our methods work so well.

Best wishes,


Stan @ Ecotune 0845 409 4567

Dear Stan,
thank you for invitation, but sadly it's a bit to far for me to go
but if one day I'll be going your way I would love to visit your garage. I do not doubt that you guys are doing a great job.
I'm not assuming that all companies are the same, there are good and bad companies, as in every other business.
some companies are so focused on making money that they forget about customers satisfaction (I'm sure we could find some on ebay).

Back home (Poland) nearly all the tuning companies have their own rolling roads and you don't pay per hour, you pay for the job set amount of money, regardless how long it takes, but usually 3-5 hrs.

[Saint]

My latest tank am getting 38mpg driving around the countryside and through the outskirts of towns, so you are truly awful in the mpg stakes.

As for plug in boxes, I had one for my e39 530d, I think it was from Tuningbox and cost me £300 or so. The biggest problem that I had with it was that it made the OBC over-read on the mpg by about 12%. It flattened out the flat spot that I used to have at about 2500rpm and it seemed to like revving up to 4.5k/5k and gave it a throatiness when at high revs. Had it on the car for about 70-80k miles and loved it.

[Kems]

It's booked in for next Monday at a indy called Paddocks Motors in Exeter. Not used them before but found some good reviews.

They're going to do the swirl flaps and run diagnostics to see if anything shows up that would be causing the high fuel consumption. Told him that it runs at 80, so stat(s) will also probably be changed. Going to try to get the mpg fixes done on the warranty. Got to be worth a go!