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E39 530d sudden death ?


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29 replies to this topic

#1 Big Ant

Big Ant

Posted 05 February 2012 - 10:16 AM

HELP, simply !

OK, so no problems starting or running for 12+ months, no known problems...then. Parked for 1 week at airport, went to start, immediate fire up, drove 200 miles home, 80-95 mph cruise, very comfortable and normal; stopped 10 miles from home, restarted after 10 minutes break, no problem, parked, bed.

Next day, started but with pre-heat warning (strange as at least 10 degrees outside), cut out, restarted, crawled 20 metres, cut out - will not start. Jumped in E46...

Then, after pondering, tried again few hours later.....and low fuel warning (50 miles to go only) - very puzzling, as should have been plenty, so got 4-5 litres into her from can, and tried again, now low fuel warning (only 30 miles to go...), then with foot to floor & firing with strong battery.....piles of smoke out the rear, splutter, splutter, low fuel warning (7 miles to go only), and big shudder, and dead.

Electrics re-set, all now in German.....and not a peep out of her, will not turnover even.

CLUES ??

Bloody horrible weekend !

Big Ant

#2 Big Ant

Big Ant

Posted 05 February 2012 - 10:17 AM

Apologies, she has done 125,000 miles, but used daily for all journeys as main car, and no issues for ages. BA

#3 Slooby

Slooby
  • Current Car:'99 Carbon Black E39 M5

Posted 05 February 2012 - 10:37 AM

When you say won't turn over, do you mean spins but won't fire, just shudders, or won't turn over full stop?

If the battery has charge but it won't turn over, it could be the starter or a duff ignition switch (they seem to like dying). A new switch is about 30 quid and takes about 20 minutes to fit and it's a common failing, if you're a bit more of the frugal sort then you can remove the switch, open it up and clean the contactors, if they're not too worn.

If it does turn over but won't fire, then it's going to be a duff fuel pump either the electric fuel supply pump, located on the N/S (on a RHD car) chassis rail in the passenger seat area (it's under the car behind the undertray), or the electric lifter pump in the fuel tank.
'99 E39 M5 (Just arrived!)
'03 Smart Roadster Coupe (For Sale)
'13 Triumph ST3R (I've gone to the visor side)
'88 VW T25 Camper
Projects: '98 Impreza Turbo, '68 Mini 1000 Mk2, Land Rover SIIA SWB and SIII LWB

#4 Big Ant

Big Ant

Posted 05 February 2012 - 11:05 AM

Now, she is dead, will not turnover. Battery was strong just few minutes ago. Clocks all in German also ! As if a fuel system error, or electrics related to fuel. Very big last shudder, after the piles of white smoke, and stopped. Miserable day.

#5 ttrw2

ttrw2
  • Current Car:2002 530d Sport Touring

Posted 05 February 2012 - 11:19 AM

Get the battery on charge, or jumped across another car.

When cranking take a look at the clear fuel hose on the passenger-side of the engine bay - look for air bubbles by shining a torch through.

HTH

#6 Slooby

Slooby
  • Current Car:'99 Carbon Black E39 M5

Posted 05 February 2012 - 11:20 AM

Not turning over doesn't sound too healthy

Was having a look through my niggles thread to remind me when I had clouds of white smoke, I think that was down to a dead or dying MAF sensor. A duff injector wouldn't help.

I'd see if you can get the engine to turn over by hand, not on the starter, being a diesel with very high compression it will be sod, so if you can taking the glow plugs out will help a lot. If it won't turn over then it really isn't good news (ie hydraulic'd, head gasket or big end/main bearing)

It does sound to me that you've got more than one fault though, electrical; possibly ignition switch and/or fuel pump, and something something engine running related like and injector or MAF
'99 E39 M5 (Just arrived!)
'03 Smart Roadster Coupe (For Sale)
'13 Triumph ST3R (I've gone to the visor side)
'88 VW T25 Camper
Projects: '98 Impreza Turbo, '68 Mini 1000 Mk2, Land Rover SIIA SWB and SIII LWB

#7 Big Ant

Big Ant

Posted 05 February 2012 - 11:33 AM

Thanks for ideas. What is amazing, is the sudden death - no issues prior. She is used so regularly, and good mix of runs every day, every week.

Now, she is sitting in the road, looking very nice....but bit sad.

Slooby - will get onto these items, as will need some help.

No 'click click click' of the declining fuel pump.
What there was, today when trying, was a 'sucking' or unhealthy irregular pump noise from the rear.....suggesting pump.

Big Ant

#8 pt530i

pt530i
  • LocationHerts
  • Current Car:530iA Saloon Titanium Silver Style 82s

Posted 05 February 2012 - 11:38 AM

Sound electrical to me.

If it won't even turn over then that's pretty basic, I'd be checking battery voltage as first step. In the cold weather a cell can collapse and make the battery unusable. Would explain a sudden failure in cold weather.

Ignition switch is a good call too.

I'd also try and read the codes to see if any clues there, although once electrical system undervoltage all sorts of spurious codes may get logged.

As usual, these sorts of problems never occur on a nice warm day when working on your car can be quite pleasurable :?

Good luck with finding the problem tho

Current :
2002 BMW 530iA
2005 Ford Galaxy 1.9TDI (bought new)

Previous :
1999 Honda Accord Executive 1.8
Various company cars (Citroen Xantia SX, Renault Laguna [various], Volvo S40 2.0T, Nissan Primera, Ford Mondeo 1.8 Verona, Volkswagen Passat Estate 1.8S)
1988 Toyota Corolla 1.3GL
1988 Ford Sierra 2.0GL
1984 Vauxhall Carlton 1.8GL

1975 Cortina 2.0XL

1984 Cavalier 1.6GL

1984 Cavalier 1.6GL
1982 Cortina 2.0GL auto
1984 Opel Manta Berlinetta 1.8
1982 Opel Manta Berlinetta 1.8
1978 Ford Cortina 2.3GL

1983 Truimph Acclaim
1978 Datsun Bluebird SSS

1977 Ford Cortina 2.0S
1972 Ford Cortina 2.0GXL
1974 Ford Cortina 2.0XL auto

1972 Opel Manta A 1.9
1971 Mini Clubman (with a 1300 engine

1971 Mini van
1967 Vauxhall Viva HB 1159
1975 Ford Cortina 1.6L


and probably a few others I've forgotten about....


#9 RichE39

RichE39
  • LocationEast Sussex UK

Posted 05 February 2012 - 12:56 PM

Battery would be my first port of call. They can suddenly go, rather than gradually failing to hold a charge. You coud try charging it but be prepared so you don't get caught out.
Posted Image

#10 syncrofred

syncrofred
  • LocationSheffield
  • Occupation:Banking well-earned pensions and getting up late.
  • Current Car:2002 530d Touring with egr delete and decat pipe.

Posted 05 February 2012 - 02:48 PM

Deffo try battery first. When we first got 530d went to Sandringham pulling caravan. Two hundred miles, so fully charged. Sub-zero over night and following day. Went to start it next day, not a flicker. :neutral: Just managed to put the dash lights on, briefly. Break-down man said "Its the cold. They just die without any warning.Been out a dozen this weekend." £102 for new battery. Not what I planned on :? No other problems though. New battery on and everything perfect.

#11 Big Ant

Big Ant

Posted 05 February 2012 - 03:15 PM

Will I be able to jump the 530d off my e46 330 petrol battery, with leads ?
Just to see if the battery is the source ?
Cheers......for small glimmer of hope ! Christ I need a big bill just now like a kick in the....
Big Ant

#12 ttrw2

ttrw2
  • Current Car:2002 530d Sport Touring

Posted 05 February 2012 - 03:29 PM

Yeah, positive to positive, neg to neg, get a helper to hold the revs at 1500-2000rpm on the 330 for a minute or two before trying to start the 530

#13 pt530i

pt530i
  • LocationHerts
  • Current Car:530iA Saloon Titanium Silver Style 82s

Posted 05 February 2012 - 04:01 PM

If the battery has a cell gone it might even damage the other car - so I'd first measure the voltage - if its 11V or under will probably indicate a duff / shorted cell. Safest would be to swap battery for a fully charged one.

Current :
2002 BMW 530iA
2005 Ford Galaxy 1.9TDI (bought new)

Previous :
1999 Honda Accord Executive 1.8
Various company cars (Citroen Xantia SX, Renault Laguna [various], Volvo S40 2.0T, Nissan Primera, Ford Mondeo 1.8 Verona, Volkswagen Passat Estate 1.8S)
1988 Toyota Corolla 1.3GL
1988 Ford Sierra 2.0GL
1984 Vauxhall Carlton 1.8GL

1975 Cortina 2.0XL

1984 Cavalier 1.6GL

1984 Cavalier 1.6GL
1982 Cortina 2.0GL auto
1984 Opel Manta Berlinetta 1.8
1982 Opel Manta Berlinetta 1.8
1978 Ford Cortina 2.3GL

1983 Truimph Acclaim
1978 Datsun Bluebird SSS

1977 Ford Cortina 2.0S
1972 Ford Cortina 2.0GXL
1974 Ford Cortina 2.0XL auto

1972 Opel Manta A 1.9
1971 Mini Clubman (with a 1300 engine

1971 Mini van
1967 Vauxhall Viva HB 1159
1975 Ford Cortina 1.6L


and probably a few others I've forgotten about....


#14 Saint

Saint
  • LocationNew Forest

Posted 05 February 2012 - 04:14 PM

My 530d lost all charge over night in last years cold. Tried charging it, which worked for all of 1 day and then just got a new one. As the other one was the original and 10 years old didn't think that too bad. However, I had no issues with smoke etc.
Carbon Black E61 535d M Sport Touring 2008 (2011 - )
Oxford Green E39 530d Touring 2000-X 184bhp ( upped to 220bhp) (2001-2011)
Canada Blue E36 325tds 1996-P (1996-2001)

#15 Big Ant

Big Ant

Posted 05 February 2012 - 04:35 PM

Gloom. OK, didn't have anything to check voltage, so 330Ci was used to try & jump the 530d, but nothing....not a single turn-over of the engine. All dash lights, screen, etc were flashing on/off, but no turn of the engine.

Bloody strange. Faultless for ages, long run yesterday, next day.....dead.

Will be sitting cross-legged on kerb of friendly independent guy tomorrow morning, hoping he'll pop up.

Ho hum. Thanks all for help. Will post conclusions.

Big Ant

#16 sulla

sulla
  • LocationHyde, near Stockport
  • Occupation:Company Director and Dogsbody
  • Current Car:2003 525d ES Manual

Posted 05 February 2012 - 06:27 PM

Sometimes a completely knackered battery will not jump off another car, it seems to block the good battery. Had this happen on one of my rental Transits on Thursday. Started it up, drove it 200 yards then nothing completely dead. Wouldn't jump start, but a new battery later and everything was fine. Well I couldn't find the radio code but thats another story.
Previous BMW's: 1982 E21 316, 1989 E30 318i, 1990 E30 320i SE, 1991 E30 325i SE touring, 1991 E34 525i Sport, 1993 E36 318i SE, 1996 E36 325tds touring, 2000 E39 520i SE, 2001 E39 525i SEA, 2003 E46 320td SE compact.

#17 Slooby

Slooby
  • Current Car:'99 Carbon Black E39 M5

Posted 05 February 2012 - 06:58 PM

As others have said Ant, if a cell in the battery has completely failed even trying to jump start the car won't work.
'99 E39 M5 (Just arrived!)
'03 Smart Roadster Coupe (For Sale)
'13 Triumph ST3R (I've gone to the visor side)
'88 VW T25 Camper
Projects: '98 Impreza Turbo, '68 Mini 1000 Mk2, Land Rover SIIA SWB and SIII LWB

#18 Big Ant

Big Ant

Posted 06 February 2012 - 03:03 PM

Ahhhhhh !! OK, so trusted Independent just arrived, and......engine would not turn at all, but.....oil dipstick was full almost to the top, and smelling it, he said "diesel is in the oil !" Literally, rather than 1-2 cm at the bottom of the dipstick, oil was all the way to the top.

Tow truck arriving....

Any idea what is bust ? Mechanic pointed at something to the right of the engine.

Wife's optimism....."It needed an oil change, that is good !"

Big Ant

#19 Big Ant

Big Ant

Posted 06 February 2012 - 03:39 PM

E46 still loves me.....

Tiger 955i said he'd never do that to me....

#20 fatdaddy

fatdaddy
  • LocationMalvern UK
  • Occupation:flexographic printer
  • Current Car:2001 540 sport auto touring

Posted 06 February 2012 - 03:45 PM

If your diesel pump is on tje right maybe a seal

Sent from my X10i using Tapatalk

ey51.jpg

 


#21 pt530i

pt530i
  • LocationHerts
  • Current Car:530iA Saloon Titanium Silver Style 82s

Posted 06 February 2012 - 04:14 PM

Check out this recent thread - seems to be the same issue you're seeing

http://forum.bmw5.co...l-level-rising/

Current :
2002 BMW 530iA
2005 Ford Galaxy 1.9TDI (bought new)

Previous :
1999 Honda Accord Executive 1.8
Various company cars (Citroen Xantia SX, Renault Laguna [various], Volvo S40 2.0T, Nissan Primera, Ford Mondeo 1.8 Verona, Volkswagen Passat Estate 1.8S)
1988 Toyota Corolla 1.3GL
1988 Ford Sierra 2.0GL
1984 Vauxhall Carlton 1.8GL

1975 Cortina 2.0XL

1984 Cavalier 1.6GL

1984 Cavalier 1.6GL
1982 Cortina 2.0GL auto
1984 Opel Manta Berlinetta 1.8
1982 Opel Manta Berlinetta 1.8
1978 Ford Cortina 2.3GL

1983 Truimph Acclaim
1978 Datsun Bluebird SSS

1977 Ford Cortina 2.0S
1972 Ford Cortina 2.0GXL
1974 Ford Cortina 2.0XL auto

1972 Opel Manta A 1.9
1971 Mini Clubman (with a 1300 engine

1971 Mini van
1967 Vauxhall Viva HB 1159
1975 Ford Cortina 1.6L


and probably a few others I've forgotten about....


#22 urquattro

urquattro
  • Locationfareham hampshire
  • Occupation:old age lounger, part time bmw sorter outer
  • Current Car:BMW E39 540iA , MB W126 500sel

Posted 06 February 2012 - 04:22 PM

Not good on diesels but-
this sounds like hydraulic lockup, is there still water level in cooling?
is there water/oil mix on the dipstick and foam around oil filler cap?
what is is sump level like re fuel ingress?

Can glo plug things be removed to see if engine will turn via starter spin or bar crank when free of compression.

Very strange that jump lead connection yielded no engine turnover hence my unqualified remarks above.
keith

#23 Ron

Ron
  • LocationDeepest darkest Dorset
  • Occupation:Builder come odd job person/traditional upholsterer....

Posted 06 February 2012 - 05:18 PM

yikes! . . The oil cooler thing is on the right of the engine. The coolant goes through it as well as oil. . With any luck its simply the rubber seal that has failed on that, i simple fix, and an oil change is never a bad thing to do! . . Fingers crossed thats all it is!

#24 Clavurion

Clavurion
  • LocationFinland

Posted 06 February 2012 - 07:21 PM

Ahhhhhh !! OK, so trusted Independent just arrived, and......engine would not turn at all, but.....oil dipstick was full almost to the top, and smelling it, he said "diesel is in the oil !" Literally, rather than 1-2 cm at the bottom of the dipstick, oil was all the way to the top.


Most likely broken axle seal on high pressure pump. Diesel leaks to sump via timing case cover.
E39 530dA M-Sport

#25 Big Ant

Big Ant

Posted 19 February 2012 - 12:20 PM

Quick update, but will post findings when completed.
Injectors removed, taken to Bosch centre for professional cleaning, and all OK now.
Everywhere is contaminated with the damn Oil / Diesel mix.....from sump to top, and seemingly ancilliaries are contaminated. Exhaust joints are actually dripping oil...

Anyway, won't forget to update, and thanks all for help and ideas. Big Ant

#26 Big Ant

Big Ant

Posted 24 February 2012 - 07:21 AM

OK, injectors are fine......pump is buggered, the one next to the engine. Gold Stars for those that identified that as the culprit ! Problem, quoted 900 for the new pump. I re-read some of your suggestions, and there was mention of a 'seal' going, I guess as part of the pump. The pump was sent for testing, and returned as dead.....am I wasting my time asking if a seal has gone, or rather, is the seal repairable ?? Total cost will be 1500++ to get this back on the road. Wife wants to bury the car, and buy a Golf......

#27 Chi

Chi
  • LocationHampshire
  • Current Car:BMW E39 530d

Posted 24 February 2012 - 08:52 AM

900 for a pump sounds a lot?
Posted Image

#28 Clavurion

Clavurion
  • LocationFinland

Posted 24 February 2012 - 02:46 PM

There are companies who can refurbish your pump. Do a search. There has been similar cases even in this forum.
E39 530dA M-Sport

#29 pork_n_beem

pork_n_beem

Posted 24 February 2012 - 07:22 PM

thought the pump was about £500 from euro

#30 Big Ant

Big Ant

Posted 29 February 2012 - 09:26 AM

Collecting car in an hour. Injectors all cleaned & checked by Bosch centre, and basically a replacement of all oils, filters, etc as needed ! New pump installed. Total cost we were told yesterday is £1200, so not too bad I think....and even Mrs was chuffed to see her fire up yesterday in the garage ! What an experience, but got to live using the Triumph Tiger for day2day travel, shopping, etc....so some fun also. Apologies, but I think my earlier 900 for the pump, may have been mechanic's guesstimate, or may have been cost to finish from point he was at. Anyway.....having seen much of engine dispersed over his garage these last 3-4 weeks, pleased to get her back.

We're Brits, living on the Algarve....and small country (9m pop.) has few spares for any such motors, so without waiting ages...no choice but to get new parts delivered from dealership.

Thanks all again. Big Ant




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