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2009 520d Ticking Noise When Warm


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26 replies to this topic

#1 Andrew_M

Andrew_M
  • LocationCheshire
  • Current Car:E61 520d M Sport

Posted 09 September 2011 - 11:16 AM

Hi All,

My first post and looking for some insight.

My 520d (30k) has started to 'tick' when warmed up. It is most noticable around 2000 - 2500 rpm and is audible in the cabin around the passenger footwell. From cold it is fine..! Doesn't normally bother me as most of the miles are motorway and the road noise would tend to drown it out. However around town and especially in 2nd at lower speeds it's starting to sound like a Ford needing it's tappets adjusting.

BMW have advised it's a rotational noise and have so far replaced the belt, belt tensioner and more recently the vibration damper on the end of the crankshaft. Yet it still persists to drive me nuts.

It's back in next week to see where we go next.

Any thoughts welcome.

Andy

#2 Andrew_M

Andrew_M
  • LocationCheshire
  • Current Car:E61 520d M Sport

Posted 20 September 2011 - 11:27 AM

Update.

Back from BMW this morning. It is booked in next week for a new crankshaft, timing chains and guides. Known issue apparantly for certain N47 engines within a manufuacturing window.

I suspect they do the easy (and accessible) things first and hope you may go away.

Andy

#3 Lennox

Lennox
  • LocationGlasgow
  • Occupation:Big 4 Data Geek
  • Current Car:E70 X5 35d

Posted 20 September 2011 - 12:38 PM

Wouldnt you!!! Hope it all works out though!
Loving the Twin Turbo life......no lagging about!!

#4 Andrew_M

Andrew_M
  • LocationCheshire
  • Current Car:E61 520d M Sport

Posted 29 September 2011 - 09:22 AM

Update. All sorted! Sounds like a new engine, the tick has gone and perhaps I had never appreciated how noisy the engine was initially.

No new crankshaft though. New set of timing chains (unsure if there are 2 or 3), new guide tensioners and a new oil pump.

There is a service bulletin about this issue from BMW according to the dealer, the guy in the workshop mentioned they do about 30 per year on the N47 engine.

#5 BLooD

BLooD
  • LocationEssex UK.
  • Current Car:530d M-sport 2006

Posted 29 September 2011 - 10:55 AM

WOW! wonder what that would have cost in labour charge?, glad you got it sorted.

2006 BMW 530D M-Sport, Carbon black/Grey Dakota leather
Visibility pack, Media pack, DAB radio, ISO fix front seat, High beam assist, Individual head-liner anthracite, M rear spoiler, M135 18" wheels.
Retrofits:- LCI-CCC, SA430 ext: mirrors dimming/folding, SA616 BMW online, SA563 extended light package, SA534 AC automatic, SA437 poplar wood trim, Poplar wood handbrake handle, Poplar wood gear selector, Remote key fold mirrors, mirror kerb function, Front and rear Hi-FI tweeters.
Mods:- All mods removed.


#6 savgeax

savgeax
  • Current Car:520d M Sport LCI

Posted 29 September 2011 - 02:37 PM

I have something similar but get it from cold and it does not go away.

I haven't had it checked out but was under the impression from reading various forums that its a fuel injector?

Apart from being abit more noisy, there is no change to performance or fuel consumption.

#7 Andrew_M

Andrew_M
  • LocationCheshire
  • Current Car:E61 520d M Sport

Posted 05 October 2011 - 09:53 AM

A few more pieces of info I found.

Good video on YouTube which is the same as my original engine noise. Should have recorded mine...



Awful Google translation, but in essence what was done. Except the crankshaft.

http://translate.goo...iguenal-578548/

Finally, some nice pictures of the N47 for interest.

http://www.auto-inno...47t28print.html

#8 davethefish

davethefish
  • Current Car:320d SE

Posted 14 October 2011 - 07:06 PM

Hi Andrew,
this is a bit of a cheeky first post, as i have the exact same problem with a 320d (N47 engine)
unfortunately my car is 6months outside the 3 year BMW warranty and currently at 79k miles,
and i have been quoted £4,300 for the work from a main dealer.
as my warranty company refused to authorise the repair, saying it was wear and tear....

did your main dealer say why the crankshaft did not need to be replaced?
as if my crankshaft didn't need replacing it would make my prospective repair considerably cheaper....

many thanks,
Dave.

#9 Andrew_M

Andrew_M
  • LocationCheshire
  • Current Car:E61 520d M Sport

Posted 21 October 2011 - 09:18 PM

No they didn't. It will be back in shortly for the brake fluid change so I'll find the tech and ask him. Keep you posted.

I was a bit confused myself as to not having the crank swapped, of the very limited information I could find on the net the crank appeared to be the cause. I can only guess the timing chain end was slightly eccentric and stretched the chains over time so that the guide tensioner couldn't take up the excess slack?? But, I ended up with a new oil pump rather than a new crank...! Assuming the chains are wet then perhaps I had a different issue surrounding a lubrication problem. They must have a facility to measure the crank with the engine out and decide if it out of tolerance or not.

I have plenty of friends with N47 engines so I'll be keeping a keen eye (and ear) as their mileages increase...!

Andy

#10 davethefish

davethefish
  • Current Car:320d SE

Posted 21 October 2011 - 10:08 PM

My car is currently now undergoing the work, expected to take at least a week and a half.
I asked the senior bmw tech if i could just have the chains ect... replaced and not the crankshaft,
but he said they would not do the work without replacing the crankshaft as well.
as new timing chains on the old crankshaft wouldn't match up and wear properly and wouldn't rectify the underlying problem.

from the information i have gathered, it seems to be that some few crankshafts on the earlier engines had a manufacturer's machining fault on the timing chain gear.
that lead to wear and damage of other components like the guides, sprockets and chains.
if your lucky, you notice the very slight noise and get it sorted out.
if not, the timing chain eventually snaps and you have a scrap engine, though most of these seem to be at around 100k...

but your car only has 30k and i assume is not very old?
so may not have the defective crank, or much wear allowing new chains to be fitted to the old crank?

#11 memyself

memyself

Posted 25 October 2011 - 06:40 PM

So, this only affects the 2.0d engine ? If so what years ?

Any evidence how many experience this fault 10 / 20 / 30 %

#12 davethefish

davethefish
  • Current Car:320d SE

Posted 26 October 2011 - 07:35 PM

So, this only affects the 2.0d engine ? If so what years ?

Any evidence how many experience this fault 10 / 20 / 30 %


only the N47 (177bhp) engine, so about 57 plate on...
and i've no idea of percentages.
though i doubt it would anywhere near as high as 10%, or there would be of thousands of cars...

but there must still be quite a few.
to have so many people posting video's on you tube, and asking questions on forums...
looking for a solution to the problem...

#13 davethefish

davethefish
  • Current Car:320d SE

Posted 01 November 2011 - 10:33 PM

FINALLY!
It's all sorted now, the noise has totally gone!

I picked up the car on saturday,
it's is so much quieter now and the engine sounds great.

Though the final bill came to £3700 even with a very healthy discount.
I was very impressed with sytners as a main dealer,
particularly Pat Smith my service advisor, she helped make a difficult situation a lot easier.

hopefully i can enjoy some trouble free bmw motoring for a while now....

#14 Andrew_M

Andrew_M
  • LocationCheshire
  • Current Car:E61 520d M Sport

Posted 02 November 2011 - 09:22 AM

Good news, glad it's sorted and it is so much better isn't it.

I still have the outstanding question on why my engine did not need a new crankshaft and also had a new oil pump, when I finnally get back to the dealer I will make sure I get that cleared up. On all of the limited info on the net I couldn't find anyone needing a new oil pump so perhaps the crank is OK?

On the percentage of affected N47 units, I guess it would also depend on how particular you are. I knew the engine should not have been making that sound and did a little reading. I wonder how many people have it and ignore it / dealer says 'turn the radio up' etc. Remember I had 3 previous visits changing other bits and pieces before they embarked on the 'big fix'...

#15 memyself

memyself

Posted 03 November 2011 - 05:00 PM

Good news, glad it's sorted and it is so much better isn't it.

I still have the outstanding question on why my engine did not need a new crankshaft and also had a new oil pump, when I finnally get back to the dealer I will make sure I get that cleared up. On all of the limited info on the net I couldn't find anyone needing a new oil pump so perhaps the crank is OK?

On the percentage of affected N47 units, I guess it would also depend on how particular you are. I knew the engine should not have been making that sound and did a little reading. I wonder how many people have it and ignore it / dealer says 'turn the radio up' etc. Remember I had 3 previous visits changing other bits and pieces before they embarked on the 'big fix'...



Terrific !! Mine is a 58 plate just out of warranty ! A nice 3-4k bill waiting for me in the next 50k miles by the sounds of it.

Wonder if the sales of goods act would kick-in here "not fit for the purpose for which it was originally intended" etc, etc.

Sounds like a massive job. Anyone have any details how they do this ? I guess they have to take engine out and crack open the sump to replace cranksharft bearings, timing chains etc, or is this something that can be done from underneath with engine in situ ?

I remember my new 320d (55plate) needed a new crank pulley at only 2,000 miles from new under a recall. BMW said it was 'glued' on and not a big job !!

#16 davethefish

davethefish
  • Current Car:320d SE

Posted 03 November 2011 - 10:22 PM

Terrific !! Mine is a 58 plate just out of warranty ! A nice 3-4k bill waiting for me in the next 50k miles by the sounds of it.

Wonder if the sales of goods act would kick-in here "not fit for the purpose for which it was originally intended" etc, etc.

Sounds like a massive job. Anyone have any details how they do this ? I guess they have to take engine out and crack open the sump to replace cranksharft bearings, timing chains etc, or is this something that can be done from underneath with engine in situ ?

I remember my new 320d (55plate) needed a new crank pulley at only 2,000 miles from new under a recall. BMW said it was 'glued' on and not a big job !!


Hi,
is your engine making the 'ticking' noise then?

Sytners took my engine out, and stripped it, from the top down. and then rebuilt it.
new parts listed were new cylinder head gasket, head bolts ect...
as well as the crankshaft, chains, ect.. the parts list was quite long, a couple of A4 sheets....

#17 Andrew_M

Andrew_M
  • LocationCheshire
  • Current Car:E61 520d M Sport

Posted 04 November 2011 - 10:22 AM

Mine was engine out also. The timing chains are usefully located at the rear of the engine so the gearbox and engine have to be separated...!

Try the link in one of my earlier posts for some pictures of it being done.

Dave, on my oil pump question. Did your's tick from cold or on when warmed up?

Andy

#18 savgeax

savgeax
  • Current Car:520d M Sport LCI

Posted 04 November 2011 - 09:36 PM

I have a 57 plate 520d with 116k on the clock. I have a ticking from start up and never goes away although feel it get slightly less noise as the engine warms up.

I certainly fear I have this and have no warranty and do not have £3700 available either.

#19 davethefish

davethefish
  • Current Car:320d SE

Posted 05 November 2011 - 10:06 AM

Mine was engine out also. The timing chains are usefully located at the rear of the engine so the gearbox and engine have to be separated...!

Try the link in one of my earlier posts for some pictures of it being done.

Dave, on my oil pump question. Did your's tick from cold or on when warmed up?

Andy


mine didn't tick from cold, only when it had warmed up.
though i noticed that in the warmer weather in summer it didn't take very long for it to start to tick,
as it did in the autumn, when it's colder.

btw Andy, what plate year is your car?

Edited by davethefish, 05 November 2011 - 10:24 AM.


#20 Andrew_M

Andrew_M
  • LocationCheshire
  • Current Car:E61 520d M Sport

Posted 05 November 2011 - 07:59 PM

'59 Plate. Registered 30th September 2009 so not even 2 years old when I first posted.
During the summer, 7 to 8 mins from cold to start ticking. Started around 25k perhaps.
Got lots of new parts now with all the messing round as well as the actual problem. Oh, and a new antenna diversity unit after it rained and I couldn't get in the car. With less than a year to go now, do I extend the warranty..?
First BMW after being a V70 addict. Last D5 to 122k in 4 years with no problems. Economy won me over, perhaps not the German engineering...!

#21 davethefish

davethefish
  • Current Car:320d SE

Posted 05 November 2011 - 10:30 PM

my more modest 320d is my first BMW too,
and in 6 months has given me more problems than i've had in years of owning fords.
the handling, performance and general finish level are in a different league though :mrgreen:

given the choice again i'd have dropped half a plate to an '07 and got the more reliable M47
or even gone up to a 6 pot 325d M57.

i was initially drawn to BMW's because comparatively the price of mondeo's has risen so much in the last 5 years.
and my brother's had oldish BMW's for year's now, (he currently has a X plate E46)
and they all performed faultlessly....he's basically just added petrol with an occasional oil change....

it seems that the quality of some of the 'cheaper' BMW's engines are slipping?
though i'd hardly call what you must have paid for your 5 series car anything like cheap! :shock:

#22 Andrew_M

Andrew_M
  • LocationCheshire
  • Current Car:E61 520d M Sport

Posted 04 March 2012 - 10:35 PM

Maybe I'm over sensitive to the noise, but I think it's starting again...! Not as bad as it was last time but it's certainly making a comeback.

I wonder if I did need a new crank?

Now at 39K and just 6 months to re-appear?

#23 Del Boy

Del Boy
  • LocationUK
  • Current Car:2012 F10 520d SE Auto

Posted 05 March 2012 - 10:29 AM

I'd be getting it straight back if I could hear any strange noise again.

Drives: 2013 (63) LCI BMW 520d M Sport Auto - Jet Black. 2011 (61) BMW 520d SE Auto - Jet Black.


#24 Andrew_M

Andrew_M
  • LocationCheshire
  • Current Car:E61 520d M Sport

Posted 07 March 2012 - 12:28 PM

PUMA Case Details - Google apologises for the poor translation...

I note it now on serial 03 (previus post was diligence number -02) and the approval date is Dec 2011. After my car went in..!

Andy

>>

PUMA 13588845-03 incidence recorded by BMW and its repair: http://www.puma-inde...A/AllItems.aspx

Diligence-number Item
43863106-03 N47, N47S, N47T, rustling sound in the engine, timing chain rubs.

Approval date (day.month.year) Status Organization
Approved 14.12.11 Germany, automobiles

Vehicles affected
E Series Motor Body
E60 E61 E81 E82 E83 N47 N47DKO N47S N47T E61 E60 E81 E82 E83 N47 N47S N47T N47DKO
E84 E87 E88 E90 E91 E87 E84 E88 E90 E91
E92 E93 F10 F11 F25 E93 E92 F10 F11 F25

Feedback Comment production interval Feedback
(From / to) on the production interval diligence (day.month.year) to (day.month.year)
/ 01.03.11 / 01.03.11

Complaint
Sound of friction drag on the engine from about 1500 rpm, which is visible from the inside.
The noise can be perceived in area of the gearbox housing and the oil pan.

Cause
Excessively sharp edges on the sprockets, the chain does not flow evenly over the guides.

Measures
We must distinguish two cases:

Case 1:

For engines N47, N47DKO, N47S, interval from 01.03.2007 to production 05.01.2009.

In case of customer complaint must change the following parts:
(See Annexes, Figures 1 to 7.) - Nov. 21 7803479 Sutitución the crankshaft bearings.

Caution: Use only crankshafts with a production date back to 5. 1. 1. 2009 2009
The production date is printed on crankshaft sprocket (see page 2 of the Annex)

Meaning of the figures:
The first two indicate the assembly line.
The 6 following year (two digits), month, day.
Last 5 indicate the reference number of the crankshaft.
Thus, the crankshaft shown on page 2 of the annex was built on October 21, 2009.
41 -11 7,797,896 chain oil pump.
11 31 8 506 652 Timing Chain bottom.
13 52 7 797 906 sprocket for driving the high pressure pump.
11 27 7 800 523 sprocket (intermediate for balance shafts).
11 8,510,014 31 Supply Chain superior.
-11 7,797,899 31 Timing Chain Guide above.
-13 7,797,904 52 Timing Chain Guide below.

Note: Adjusting the intermediate gear shafts accurately balanced according to workshop manual. In case this intermediate sprocket and the balance shafts are not sufficiently fit, the motor can still giving rise to noise despite the new crankshaft.

See November 21 workshop manual 500 "crankshaft replacement."

Note: In the case of vehicles to which a previous repair and they replaced the crankshaft:
Proceed with these vehicles as detailed in "Case 2".

Case 2:

N47 engine, N47DKO, N47S, N47T production interval 05.01.2009 - 01.03.2011

In case of customer complaint replace the following parts:
(See Appendix, Art 8 to 10)
-11 8,506,652 31 Supply Chain bottom.
- 13 52 7 797 906 sprocket high pressure pump.
- 11 31 8 510 014 Supply Chain superior.
-11 7,797,899 31 Timing Chain Guide above.
-13 7,797,904 52 Timing Chain Guide below.

Note: There is no need to release the binding thread of the intermediate toothed wheel balancer shafts.

Note: As of March 2011 there are new guidelines. These guidelines do not bring reinforcing ribs.

(See Appendix, pp. 7 and 10.)
In this way the inner surface of the guides is smooth throughout its length and the timing chain runs easily on them.
They have not changed the references.

Note: During the repair make sure guides are mounted without lateral veins (in the Annex, Art 7 and 10.)

Attention:
No repairs are allowed in vehicles with production date after 03/2011 and vehicles in which all existing measures have already been made. The sound now is the moment, the normal state of this world! No risk of broken chain!

Not allowed engine change because of this claim!

Claim
Location of the defect: Defect Type: Circumstances of default:
Guide part incorrect

Crank Noise
Wheel motor
Distribution

Worn crankshaft
Wheel motor
Distribution

Motor Noise Motor Power

#25 baus

baus
  • Current Car:05 E60 525d Auto, Fully Loaded

Posted 11 January 2013 - 01:58 AM

everyone, please sign: http://www.avaaz.org..._engine_recall/



#26 Ragtag100

Ragtag100
  • Current Car:2009 320d

Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:01 PM

Hi guys - Can you please have a listen and confirm its the timing belt please - cheers John



#27 Ragtag100

Ragtag100
  • Current Car:2009 320d

Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:02 PM






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