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Cadwell Parker

Test drove these two cars today

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Here and Here. It was an interesting comparison.

 

The variable damping equipped 14 plate running 18" wheels drove very nicely indeed apart from a slight vibration under medium to heavy braking. I was expecting the non variable damping car running 19" wheels to feel horrible in comparison but I was pleasantly surprised. Yes it was a little more nervous over ripples and I can imagine it crashing horribly through pot holes but it was nowhere near as bad as I'd expected.

 

Both cars have similar miles on them. The non Variable car is >/<£2000 more affordable and would come with a years BMWAUC warranty but is two years older than the variable damped car. The variable damped car is certainly the nicest to drive and eventually I think I'd regret it if I settled for the slightly more affordable car. I guess it all depends how much more the nicer car is worth to me. 

 

One thing though, out of the two cars the brake discs on the Non variable one looked and felt a lot better, sharper with more bite from the moment I touched the pedal. The salesman agreed the brakes in the variable damped car were not quite as they should be and they'd 'cleaning up' the discs before the car went out to a buyer, suggesting they might even replace them if necessary. Looking at the discs there was up to 1/2'' of rusty looking stuff round the edge on a couple of them, as though the pads hadn't been making even contact, like maybe the pistons were seized or something...?

 

Anyway, some discussion to be had on the phone tomorrow I think. I think I'd be justified in asking for a thorough brake overhaul. The brakes and the asking price are the only things putting me off the car which felt nicest to drive.

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I bet they give the brakes an Italian tune up in the first instance due to lack of use...  They are onepots so if siezed youd have have had bigger issues -one side would have been rather hot/smelling by the end of your test drive. 

The indy looks a little bit overpriced compared with the auc dealer car at the same mileage imho - the 19" rims and widescreen nav do add some value second hand and despite the AUC prep being awful they will usually sort most stuff willingly. 

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I think the AUC one will have been a BMW owned car when it was new. It's virtually the same number plate (only a few letters away) from my dad's F10 which was also an Oct 12 car. The spec is also identical apart from the touring but all other options are identical.

 

Buying AUC will give you piece of mind for the first year. You could argue that the warranty at that age and mileage is worth atleast £1k

 

The Indy model is the facelift model of course, 18 months newer but higher mileage (for its age) compared to the AUC.

 

19" wheels running decent tyres will give you pin sharp handling. You could always get a set of 17" winters, but a newer car and facelifted too, hmmm.

 

Tough choice.

 

Agree the dealer wont "clean" the brakes as the only thing you do to discs is skim them, unless of course they just take a grinder to them. My AUC car had poorer brakes than I expected(due to it sitting around) but after a spirited run to Galashiels and back they were much better.

 

If it were me I would see what you can get via BMW AUC for the price of the one at the Indy. I like the idea of AUC when I'm spending that amount on a car. But that's just me.

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Not sure if you noticed it or not... the 2014 car is the LCI (facelift) model. That happened in late 2013, and whilst the differences are subtle enough, you get that nice steering wheel (on the M Sport model), restyled bonnet/lights/bumper (remember, subtle) and a couple of other minor differences. That's the car I'd personally go for, once you haggle aggressively and get 2 new front discs for it.

The 2012/62 car categorically won't be a facelift.

Edited by BFleming

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It depends on your budget but as soon as I see a car without widescreen Professional navigation I switch off and I doubt I'm alone. The older car is better specified but as mentioned above it is pre-LCI which also puts me off, especially since the price isn't so different to the LCI.

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FWIW I've just bought a 62 plate F11 and it is unarguably orders of magnitude better than the 65 plate F10 I bought new. Granted it is better equipped but I barely notice the cosmetic differences between the pre-facelift and the LCI. Having had to replace a smashed wing mirror on my LCI days before its first MOT (and weeks before I got rid of it anyway), the extra cost of sourcing a mirror with indicator repeaters on the LCI are also not something I will miss. Also, don't be put off by only having TMC and not RTTI - they're both crap in comparison to Waze anyway - despite that, the Pro-nav is still something I wouldn't be without.

 

I've got used to the 18s on mine now, not least because of their mint condition, but I must admit I do miss the way the 19s look and as such am always on the lookout for a reasonably priced set on which to put summer boots.

 

Also, I doubt I would buy a non-AUC car. As has already been said, the added peace of mind and year's warranty really do make a big difference on the purchase of a car like this. As it happens, mine had only a couple of thousand miles fewer on the clock than these two but the price was bang in range and the favourable terms I got on the PCP from the dealer effectively made it an absolute bargain.

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11 hours ago, SuperDave said:

They are onepots so if siezed youd have have had bigger issues -one side would have been rather hot/smelling by the end of your test drive. 

The indy looks a little bit overpriced compared with the auc dealer car

 

I didn't notice any smell, pulling to one side or other signs of binding so they probably would clean up and improve a little with some enthusiastic use. I think I'd only be totally happy it they replaced the discs.

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11 hours ago, SuperDave said:

The indy looks a little bit overpriced compared with the auc dealer car

 

That was my feeling too, especially given the state of the brake discs. I reckoned £15000 - £15500 would be a fairer price.

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3 hours ago, 535i Andrew said:

Buying AUC will give you piece of mind for the first year. You could argue that the warranty at that age and mileage is worth atleast £1k

 

That a good point and certainly worth considering. As I understand BMW warranty is one of the few that's actually worth some of the paper it's written on and they're quite good at honouring it when something does go wrong, unlike other dealers I've been unfortunate to have bought from.

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4 hours ago, 535i Andrew said:

The Indy model is the facelift model of course

 

Are you sure about that? I know it should be at that age but looking at the photos of the front of the car it doesn't seem to have to subtly redesigned headlight surround with the 'eyebrows' at the inner top corners of the headlights. I don't remember noticing indicator repeaters on the mirrors but being the first time driving a BMW of any kind I had a lot to take in. I need to check with the dealer to confirm.  I think the post lci cars should come into the lower co2 bracket, 139g? IIRC this car is higher.

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The 2014 indy model is definitely LCI.

 

You can tell by looking at the fog light surrounds (pre-lci have mesh like the rest of the lower grille). Also, the kidneys have 10 vertical bars, pre-lci cars have 12. I can also see the indicator repeaters on the mirrors and the spec states 139g/km.

Edited by jannism

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4 hours ago, 535i Andrew said:

If it were me I would see what you can get via BMW AUC for the price of the one at the Indy. I like the idea of AUC when I'm spending that amount on a car. But that's just me.

 

 

I know. ACU is very attractive for piece of mind for a year but I keep coming back to this car. Higher mileage and has no record of rear suspension, air con compressor or any of the other usual issues having been attended to but it's got the options which are most important to me and is a lot more affordable than any ACU warranted car will be. The money saved could be put by to pay for any repairs needed. That car's a long way to go and see though and I think I'd rather buy a car with that mileage from it's single owner rather than a dealer I don't know. At least then I could get an idea of what kind of life the car has had. As you say, tough decision. It's a minefield out there.

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20 minutes ago, jannism said:

The 2014 indy model is definitely LCI.

 

You can tell by looking at the fog light surrounds (pre-lci have mesh like the rest of the lower grille). Also, the kidneys have 10 vertical bars, pre-lci cars have 12. I can also see the indicator repeaters on the mirrors and the spec states 139g/km.

 

Ok, thanks for correcting me. Now you've pointed out the other differences I can see it's an LCI.

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3 hours ago, BFleming said:

Not sure if you noticed it or not... the 2014 car is the LCI (facelift) model. That happened in late 2013, and whilst the differences are subtle enough, you get that nice steering wheel (on the M Sport model), restyled bonnet/lights/bumper (remember, subtle) and a couple of other minor differences. That's the car I'd personally go for, once you haggle aggressively and get 2 new front discs for it.

The 2012/62 car categorically won't be a facelift.

 

I thought it was LCI but then had my doubts looking at the photos again today but as has been pointed out to me above it's definitely post LCI and as such is rather more desirable. It's the car I'm more drawn to because it feels so much smoother on the 18s and variable dampers. Just the brakes and price putting me off really. Will get on to the dealer later today and see what can be arranged. Seems the car's been sitting around a while. I was told they've already dropped the price a little to try and spark some interest so they're obviously keen to get it moved.

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2 hours ago, AndyM said:

It depends on your budget but as soon as I see a car without widescreen Professional navigation I switch off and I doubt I'm alone. The older car is better specified but as mentioned above it is pre-LCI which also puts me off, especially since the price isn't so different to the LCI.

 

I'm not worried about widescreen Professional navigation for myself but it'd be better to have it on the car when selling it on that's for sure. Pre LCI puts me off too. Trouble is there are things about both cars that put me off each of them. I feel patience might be the order of the day rather than jumping on the first car I see. I know there'll be others coming up but feel impatience getting the better of me.

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1 hour ago, jannism said:

FWIW I've just bought a 62 plate F11 and it is unarguably orders of magnitude better than the 65 plate F10 I bought new. Granted it is better equipped but I barely notice the cosmetic differences between the pre-facelift and the LCI.

 

Interesting. What do you find makes it so much better? I preferred the post LCI car yesterday but as that car was running 18s and variable dampers it's difficult to accurately compare the two cars. Minor cosmetic changes don't mean much to me, it's all about how the car drives.

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1 hour ago, jannism said:

As has already been said, the added peace of mind and year's warranty really do make a big difference on the purchase of a car like this.

 

 

Agreed. I seem to be stuck in between these two cars. I'd like to roll them both into one, or buy the post LCI car from ACU with warranty. Probably just need to keep looking.

What do you reckon would be a fair price for the LCI from an indy?

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3 minutes ago, Cadwell Parker said:

 

I'm not worried about widescreen Professional navigation for myself but it'd be better to have it on the car when selling it on that's for sure. Pre LCI puts me off too. Trouble is there are things about both cars that put me off each of them. I feel patience might be the order of the day rather than jumping on the first car I see. I know there'll be others coming up but feel impatience getting the better of me.

Fully agree. Get a few saved searches set up on Autotrader with email alerts for new listings. That's what I did and resulted in the car that I eventually bought. I went to see three vehicles with numerous phone conversations about others. I also created a weighted spreadsheet with spec, options mileage and price which I filled out to 'score' each vehicle as it appeared and helped me to rule many out. You may need to travel in order to find the right car, in my experience this is the only way to get what you actually want. I got lucky an the vehicle I bought was only 40 miles or so away.

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12 minutes ago, Cadwell Parker said:

What do you reckon would be a fair price for the LCI from an indy?

Parkers, What Car, Autotrader et al all have free online tools where you can put in the reg number and mileage. They generally offer a reliable estimate.

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1 hour ago, jannism said:

You can tell by looking at the fog light surrounds (pre-lci have mesh like the rest of the lower grille). Also, the kidneys have 10 vertical bars, pre-lci cars have 12. I can also see the indicator repeaters on the mirrors and the spec states 139g/km.

 

I never knew that about the grill.  All I can spot is the different rear lights, indicators on the wing mirrors and of course the give away that it is faster by having ///M badges on the wings. ;)

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46 minutes ago, 535i Andrew said:

 

I never knew that about the grill.  All I can spot is the different rear lights, indicators on the wing mirrors and of course the give away that it is faster by having ///M badges on the wings. ;)

 

i find the slight protrusion of the M badges does help reduce turbulence and increase slipstream just before you change lanes to overtake a pre-lci F10.

 

The Pre-LCI looks better in this case.. do you intend on keeping the car for a long time? past 100-150k? if so youll need to factor in the maintenance cost of the VDC suspension

Edited by IINexusII

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It's worth pointing out that there are no known weaknesses in the VDC system, but at the end of the day they are shock absorbers that won't last forever - and the VDC ones are pricey. £500+ each, compared to a non-VDC one at £250ish (£300 for the M Sport ones), or an aftermarket Sachs one at £110 or so. There are no aftermarket VDC shocks available as far as I know.

The VDC shocks are self-contained, so no additional hydraulics / pumps etc. They work on changing the qualities of the damping medium electrically through electronic control.

Edited by BFleming

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Playing devil's advocate i think the impact of vdc is less on a touring compared to a saloon due to the rear air springs anyway. 

The 18" wheels will cost less in tyres if you do higher mileages and you can run crossclimates year round in 245/45 profile with much less chance of alloy damage and a comparative magic carpet ride! 

If someone else regularly drives then the memory seats are handy. 

Not really helping are we...! 

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32 minutes ago, SuperDave said:

Playing devil's advocate i think the impact of vdc is less on a touring compared to a saloon due to the rear air springs anyway. 

Interestingly, the F10 and F11 use the same rear shocks as each other. The air springs don't come into it.

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2 hours ago, IINexusII said:

 

i find the slight protrusion of the M badges does help reduce turbulence and increase slipstream just before you change lanes to overtake a pre-lci F10.

 

 

Aye right!;)

 

38 minutes ago, SuperDave said:

 

Not really helping are we...! 

 

Did you honestly expect the contrary? Lol.

 

We all look for so many different things in our cars, that agreeing on anything will be very difficult, but we enjoy all the discussion on it all. 

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