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Boost_Lee

Help needed with the DPF regen, running out of options now.

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Hello everybody,

 

This is my situation at the moment....

 

Car is a 2009 530d LCi

173000 miles FSH

Both thermostats replaced as coolant temps were 65c, temp hits 92c now.

6 new Bosch glow plugs

New glow plug controller

New throttle actuator valve

Standard car apart from a stage 1 remap (620nm)

 

I have a fully paid Carly subscription & I changed the above parts after Carly threw up the relevant fault codes relating to those parts. I have not had any DPF warning lights or anything to indicate a DPF problem.

 

The only code Carly throws now is an AUC sensor which is not related to my problem.

 

According to Carly it has been 4622km since my last DPF regen.  Soot mass the first time of monitoring was 51.3g & has been slowly dropping over the last few days, currently sitting at 47.19g

 

I can not get it to do a proper forced regen, even after mile after mile sat on a motorway at 60-70mph, it just stays at number 6 as the regeneration requested.

 

Here are a few readings from the Carly app..

 

518480657_Screenshot_20181118-144807_CarlyfBMW.thumb.jpg.3ab779ba7be925e979fad6658ce9711b.jpg

2144831901_Screenshot_20181120-150929_CarlyfBMW.thumb.jpg.869b0efe7e6c35d788df031b61b5abf1.jpg

2028337105_Screenshot_20181120-184714_CarlyfBMW.thumb.jpg.12ae7d634f45b786046966ca9501c821.jpgPressure when revved.

921391981_Screenshot_20181120-184724_CarlyfBMW.thumb.jpg.4e2b6028deb4ebe434bd6068556331a2.jpgPressure at idle.

 

The temperature before the DPF never seems to get hot enough to do a regen. 

 

Are my exhaust back pressure & absolute pressure in the particle filter normal? They change when I rev the car & when driving. 1026.89 when revved & 990.89 at tick over. I still get readings of over 900 even when the engine is off so I'm guessing 900 is the atmospheric pressure?

 

I'm out of ideas as to why it won't do a regen, any help would be much appreciated. Do I have to thrash the nuts off it to get those temps up? Holding it in 4th or 5th at 60mph just makes the soot mass increase so I back off.

 

Cheers,

 

Lee.

 

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Hello Lee, welcome aboard. 

I'm not an expert but what jumps out at me is your temps pre-dpf do not look normal. I would focus on that, as I can't imagine how any engine could have exhaust temps so low. Faulty temp sensor?

Keliuss

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A  couple of things spring to mind. I've read that you need 2k+rpm on the clock to trigger a regen. You can't do that in top gear and stay legal so you need to manually lock into a lower gear. 

I've also read that you need more than 1/4 tank of fuel, and not to use cruise control. Also have a read of attached. And good luck. :)

DDE7_Regeneration.pdf

Edited by pidgeonpost

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Thanks for your replies. I will try what you suggested & thanks for the .pdf

 

I will also look at the temperature sensor & test or replace that.

 

Are my back pressure readings normal? If they are too high, won't that prevent a regen?

 

Thanks again for your input,

 

Lee.

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The absolute pressure will vary day to day with the weather.

 

If the car was running then what carly is saying is that your DPF is not blocked at all. There is no extra pressure before the DPF over the normal ambient pressure, it then shows the pressure difference as 0.  So there is no need to run a forced regen, the DPF is totally clear.

 

If the car wasn't running we need to see the values with it idling, and up to temperature.

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That makes perfect sense & I wasn't sure about the ambient pressure reading if it was correct or not.

 

So really I have a normal exhaust back pressure? It's measuring the ambient pressure at 990.89 hPa then it's adding what my exhaust back pressure is, making 1026.89 hPa ( = 39.91 hPa exhaust back pressure with a fully warmed engine revved to around 3-4k )

 

I think I understand it now, sorry for sounding stupid.

 

Two more readings, the first is a stone cold engine, not running...

 

234863361_Screenshot_20181121-134842_CarlyfBMW.thumb.jpg.90911a68acd4b43b663fd53aacfce342.jpg

 

And this was just after starting the engine...

 

876749388_Screenshot_20181121-134915_CarlyfBMW.thumb.jpg.8387616c88a5f072f98cb475b9c3a67f.jpg

 

Surprised to see the temperature before particle rise to 85.95c almost instantly yet when fully warmed up I don't see the temp go anywhere near the 150c mark. Lucky if I see it hit 120c when driving. It seems to fluctuate a lot & never stays at a constant temperature. Dodgy sensor maybe as already pointed out by Keliuss

 

 

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Another 2 readings showing the car fully up to temp...

Engine running..1215225578_Screenshot_20181121-145532_CarlyfBMW.thumb.jpg.8e0ed7e8f7718991e9a8bb6487c47e2b.jpg

 

Engine off & coolant temp reading swapped to exhaust gas temp which doesn't seem to work judging by the reading...

 

1989248979_Screenshot_20181121-145646_CarlyfBMW.thumb.jpg.48ac6d21616aea02503c28b40b36ceb2.jpg

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Well it looks like your temp. readings are way off the mark. Your exhaust temp. at a nice even 1 degree C is not right at all. And the pre-DPF at 98C is not right, so are they both bad? The plot thickens! 

For comparison my N47 engine only has the pre-DPF temp. sensor and it reads 270-330C under normal warmed up driving conditions and 650-720C during regens.  Your engine will never regen at these reported readings. If your engine runs normally your temps will be similar to mine, but if the DDE module is getting the wrong info it will not trigger a regen.

Edited by keliuss

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Anybody know the part numbers for the sensors that don't seem to be reading right?

 

I have just ordered a Denso DET-0106 sensor, which I think is the correct sensor before the DPF.

 

Is there another exhaust gas temperature sensor somewhere else?

 

 

Edited by Boost_Lee

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Thanks very much for that mate.

 

So the DET-0106 sensor I have already ordered is correct ( long wired sensor number 1, temperature before particular ) & the other sensor is the DET-0103 ( short wired sensor number 8, DPF temperature sensor )

 

Where is the exhaust gas temperature sensor? Or have I got the name of the above sensors wrong & one of them is the exhaust gas temp sensor?

 

I can also read the surface temperature of the DPF in Carly so I can only assume that Carly shares a reading off one of those sensors above if they are the only sensors I have.

 

404627806_GoogleImageResult.thumb.png.9324383e2b54d58674cdabb4ab9c1dab.png

 

Thanks, I really appreciate everybody's help.

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I assume part 1 is pre-DPF and 8 is exhaust. TBH I thought they would have been physically further apart. And personally I would have tried to confirm bad readings on those sensors before buying new ones. I think they are of the resistive variety, so can be measured with a cheap multimeter.

Keliuss

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I will test them once I remove them & if they work as they should, I will return the unopened sensors for a refund. If the sensors test out to be no good, then at least I will have new sensors to put straight in.

 

I too would of thought that the exhaust gas temp sensor would be further away from the DPF.

 

Please remind me of how to test each sensor again :unsure:

 

Cheers,

 

Lee.

 

 

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Eh, not sure what values are correct. Google is your friend. But I think the resistance (in Ohms) drops as the temp. increases. 

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Hi,

i feel your pain!

There are far more knowledgeable chaps giving guidance here but your mileage is almost perfect for the car to say it’s DPF is time expired, regardless of condition. BMW code the DPF to assume it’s knackered at 250,000km. My DPF was constantly throwing up errors but I’ve had a chap tell the car she has a brand new dpf and she now regens without my fiddling with a C110.

hope you get it squared away.

kind regards,

ed 

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On 22/11/2018 at 08:25, EDWARD757 said:

BMW code the DPF to assume it’s knackered at 250,000km.

This

You need to reset the counter for the DPF so the car thinks it has a new one fitted, this can be done through WinKPF

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It's possible that Carly is just reading the temperature sensors incorrectly and the temperature sensors are a red herring. There could be a chaffed wire from the temperature sensors too so the sensors are good but what the car reads is not. A corroded connector would do that as well.

 

From the original posts perhaps your DPF does not need a forced regen. Perhaps it does lots of long journeys and that keeps the DPF nice and clean.

 

Finally as just mentioned it might be worth using diagnostics to tell the car it's had a new DPF fitted. The LCi cars have a hidden 250k km (155k mile) DPF life timer.

 

Or finally, finally perhaps the error codes you need have been mapped out when the car was mapped so you can't see what's really going on.

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1 hour ago, JasonH said:

From the original posts perhaps your DPF does not need a forced regen. Perhaps it does lots of long journeys and that keeps the DPF nice and clean.

 

Since I fixed the fault codes with the replacement parts, the soot mass is slowly dropping as there are a lot of roads that I drive on that are over 40mph. I'm guessing it was only going up & up before I discovered the faults with the Carly app. As long as I don't floor it & I drive steady, the soot mass continues to drop. It's sat at 45.35g at the moment. But I'm not enjoying the car if I have to drive it steady all the time for fear of blocking the DPF up eventually. Not sure what a reasonable soot mass number should be or what is considered to be high before problems start to show? 

 

1 hour ago, JasonH said:

Or finally, finally perhaps the error codes you need have been mapped out when the car was mapped so you can't see what's really going on.

 

Is it just a coincidence that the distance covered since last regen was around the time I had it remapped? 

Might be worth a call to the mappers to make further enquiries about my findings with the Carly app & ask them about the exhaust temp readings being out.

If anything they might know how to fix it because I'm out of ideas now.

 

Is there any way I could check the map myself with some type of software?

 

Thank you all for your help, it is much appreciated.

Edited by Boost_Lee

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If the distance covered is approximately the distance covered since it was mapped I think you've hit the nail on the head.

 

It's really common with a map to map out the DPF at the same time. I think they've just accidentally put a DPF off map on your car. Can you check it yourself - no. Just call them and ask them to put a map on that does not disable the DPF.

 

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7 hours ago, Boost_Lee said:

Well the temperature sensors tested out okay. The ohms dropped when they heated up so now I'm really confused.

 

Your previous readings indicate that at least one of your sensors is reading temps up to 98C, so yes, you are going to see a resistance drop as temp increases. But are you getting the correct resistance values? Did you find the correct values for comparison? If your engine is warmed up and your exhaust temp is only reading 98C something is not right. It should be 3 times that. No matter what else you check regarding your remap etc, your temp readings are very wrong.

Keliuss

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Still sounds like a poorly done mapping. Pressure difference even on a brand new DPF is a few mbar on idle, never zero. And as that situation is not plausible there should be a code for that.

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1 hour ago, keliuss said:

Your previous readings indicate that at least one of your sensors is reading temps up to 98C, so yes, you are going to see a resistance drop as temp increases. But are you getting the correct resistance values? Did you find the correct values for comparison? If your engine is warmed up and your exhaust temp is only reading 98C something is not right. It should be 3 times that. No matter what else you check regarding your remap etc, your temp readings are very wrong.

Keliuss

 

It does depend on whether you trust Carly to scale the numbers correctly though. I agree could be a duff sensor though, difficult to tell whether it's Carly or the sensor. You could compare the resistance with the new sensor on the bench cold and perhaps side by side after using a hairdryer on them.

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54 minutes ago, Clavurion said:

Still sounds like a poorly done mapping. Pressure difference even on a brand new DPF is a few mbar on idle, never zero. And as that situation is not plausible there should be a code for that.

 

There is a small pressure difference when the engine is running. Some of those screen grabs are with the engine off.

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I just swapped out one of the old sensors for the new one & it's made no difference at all. The temperature still fluctuates around the same temps. Whilst driving the temps are going from 98 degrees C to 115 back to 90, back up to 120 & so on. Never stays constant & this is with the brand new sensor.

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