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jannism

Goodbye F10...

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The time has come to say goodbye to my trusty F10 530d. Bought on a bit of whim when I was laid up at home with a broken ankle, it was factory fresh and an oh so much more worthy replacement for the F10 520d I chopped in for it. However, circumstances are such that as good as the F10 is, it doesn't transport two labradors in any great comfort, especially when there are also humans in the back seats and, on top of that, I can no longer justify the sizeable monthly outlay I landed myself with when I signed on for years. Besides, my wife reckons it's too big and she doesn't like it. My VT has gone through and I await a collection. :(

 

So now it's time for a change. I need something to transport both dogs and humans and still have something that will cope with all the miles I do and keep me in the style to which I've become accustomed but for at least half the money. I need an affordable estate. Having resigned myself to the loss of two cylinders I've been scouring the used car market. I've been looking at 320 Tourings, I've looked at Volvos, I've looked at Passats. I've even looked at SUVs from faraway lands. But I can't do it. I just can't...

 

...thankfully it's all going to be ok! I've found a 62 plate AUC 535d Touring that's loaded to the gunwales and it's done less than 10k miles per year with its one owner. Result! I pick it up on Friday. Bit excited. Thanks for indulging me.

 

Oh, and all that stuff my wife said about it being too big? (fnaar) I'm hoping the heated/ventilated/comfort seats with oscillating base might take her mind off that part.

 

This isn't it but it looks like this. I've even manage to convince myself I like the 18s.

 

 

car2.jpeg

Edited by jannism

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Just now, Dakota said:

Congrats, half way though that I was about to suggest a Skoda Superb estate, then I read the punchline!

 

Is this her?

 

https://usedcars.bmw.co.uk/vehicle/201810312008458?quoteref=99af299f-b97f-486d-9d62-ffe48492d971

 

Yep! I've already paid the deposit so I hope you're not going to tell me she's a lemon!

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Nice, like it.

 

A question back to you please.

 

What did you have to go through process wise to get the VT done please?

 

I can imagine with the Diesel residuals being bad that many people will be VT'ing when they can.

 

Thanks, Dave

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How much are these F11's going for these days for a 62 plate. Has the price come down much since the new G variant been released?

 

 

 

5 hours ago, jannism said:

The time has come to say goodbye to my trusty F10 530d. Bought on a bit of whim when I was laid up at home with a broken ankle, it was factory fresh and an oh so much more worthy replacement for the F10 520d I chopped in for it. However, circumstances are such that as good as the F10 is, it doesn't transport two labradors in any great comfort, especially when there are also humans in the back seats and, on top of that, I can no longer justify the sizeable monthly outlay I landed myself with when I signed on for years. Besides, my wife reckons it's too big and she doesn't like it. My VT has gone through and I await a collection. :(

 

So now it's time for a change. I need something to transport both dogs and humans and still have something that will cope with all the miles I do and keep me in the style to which I've become accustomed but for at least half the money. I need an affordable estate. Having resigned myself to the loss of two cylinders I've been scouring the used car market. I've been looking at 320 Tourings, I've looked at Volvos, I've looked at Passats. I've even looked at SUVs from faraway lands. But I can't do it. I just can't...

 

...thankfully it's all going to be ok! I've found a 62 plate AUC 535d Touring that's loaded to the gunwales and it's done less than 10k miles per year with its one owner. Result! I pick it up on Friday. Bit excited. Thanks for indulging me.

 

Oh, and all that stuff my wife said about it being too big? (fnaar) I'm hoping the heated/ventilated/comfort seats with oscillating base might take her mind off that part.

 

This isn't it but it looks like this. I've even manage to convince myself I like the 18s.

 

 

 

3

 

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1 hour ago, 535i Andrew said:

Would be interested to see what you make of the seats.

 

Need to get some pics up when you collect it.

 

Certainly, sir. Report to follow.

 

26 minutes ago, nashdm2 said:

What did you have to go through process wise to get the VT done please?

 

Very straightforward. You have to pay half the total cost of the agreement, including any arrears. In my case, thanks to a negligible deposit, this only came around 3 years into a 4 year agreement. You can do it any time but if you've not paid half already then you can expect to pay whatever that difference is upon termination (nil in this instance). You are, however liable for any excess mileage and any damage costs not covered by the BVRLA fair wear and tear guidelines. Legally speaking, I believe you could run away from the excess mileage costs and ignore the myriad threatening letters but apart from being a shitty thing to do, I doubt you'd have much luck financing a car again any time soon. 

 

20 minutes ago, sams255 said:

How much are these F11's going for these days for a 62 plate. Has the price come down much since the new G variant been released?

 

If you click the link above you can browse AUC cars. BMW generally stick to the average book price, albeit at the top end, but as with all car purchases, the sticker price should not be the one you end up paying. All dealers have ill-fitting suits with big, baggy sleeves full of incentives.

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Exactly that. I stupidly had 10k/year over 4 years. I’ve so far clocked up 47.5k over 3 years. So 17.5k miles at 11.5ppm. I’m looking at a 2k bill give or take. 

Edited by jannism

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10 hours ago, jannism said:

Exactly that. I stupidly had 10k/year over 4 years. I’ve so far clocked up 47.5k over 3 years. So 17.5k miles at 11.5ppm. I’m looking at a 2k bill give or take. 

Is that more or less than the monthly cost increase would have been if you had declared 17.5k when taking out the arrangement?

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13 hours ago, 535i Andrew said:

A proper barge. Luverley.

 

Would be interested to see what you make of the seats.

 

Need to get some pics up when you collect it.

The images are gone from the main ad (or at least I can't see them), but I think the spec says they're the Comfort seats. I've yet to talk to anyone who didn't love them. Mine are nothing short of sublime. I like the Grey too, bit rarer than the Oyster or Black.

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17 hours ago, jannism said:

Yep! I've already paid the deposit so I hope you're not going to tell me she's a lemon!

 

Have you checked all the doors and requested a grommet clear out prior to purchase?

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I think i'll be in a similar position to you soon jannism, family is expanding and i need more space. I'm thinking either f10 estate or A6 Avant.

Saying that i would be more than happy with a 535 estate without the brake judder i've experiences with my current car.

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38 minutes ago, BFleming said:

The images are gone from the main ad (or at least I can't see them), but I think the spec says they're the Comfort seats. I've yet to talk to anyone who didn't love them. Mine are nothing short of sublime. I like the Grey too, bit rarer than the Oyster or Black.

Agreed, the Comfort seats and HUD were the first things I looked for after having them in my E61.   I am in my vehicle for many hours at a time and these 2 options I could not do with out. 

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15 hours ago, jannism said:

Exactly that. I stupidly had 10k/year over 4 years. I’ve so far clocked up 47.5k over 3 years. So 17.5k miles at 11.5ppm. I’m looking at a 2k bill give or take. 

 

Please don't tell me you plan on paying that if you have VT'd the car?

 

When you exercise your right to a  voluntary termination under the Consumer Credit Act,  you do not have to pay any excess millage and only fair wear and tear counts.

You can ask for a VT at any time whatsoever but a finance company could then only pursue you for a maximum of 50% of the value  of the agreement. This is your right and its there to protect you as a consumer by terminating the contract. Once the contract is terminated the conditions within it are not enforceable. 

 

Finance companies hate the law, they don't hate you for it. The whole point of the CCA was to give protection to folk who can no longer could afford monthly payments.

 

Realistically however, PCP are now VT'd as often as cars are traded in for a newer model. I literately spoke to my dealer the other week who is desperate to sell me another car and I told him I'm upside down on the millage, that I plan to keep it for another 18 months and then trade in as I will have more use of the car and incidentally, should be back in positive millage as I drive a lot less now. His words were, if a good car comes up (looking at a 540i) then just VT yours and we'll get you into another one in no time.

 

BMW FS or whoever you had the finance with have absolute no right to put any marker on your credit report that would adversely affect it. It will simply say the finance was "satisifed". The same process occurs if you reject a vehicle on finance. 

Because Finance companies know that people take advantage of excess miles and VT's they threat on whatever they can - fees, unfair wear and tear, mileage blah blah blah.

 

Take videos, pictures etc etc to document the car as best you can in its condition, hand it back to the collection firm and DO NOT sign anything about accepting excess charges, just say "no, take it away please".

 

If you dont believe me, read the Act or the hundreds of similar posts on forums. 

 

Oh and of course, enjoy the new car. 

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A very interesting contribution, thanks.

 

I was aware that I'm under no legal obligation to pay the excess mileage but I was under the distinct impression that in not honouring the charge I would jeopardise my chances of getting further credit from the finance company in question at the very least (I know there is no adverse mark on my credit file - merely a note that a VT has taken place) but with the finance company being BMWFS and my immediate take up of another finance deal through them and no doubt, again in future, any souring of the relationship would have a meaningful impact directly on me!

 

 Have you got first-hand experience of taking this course of action yourself, @sjak92 ?

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1 hour ago, jannism said:

A very interesting contribution, thanks.

 

I was aware that I'm under no legal obligation to pay the excess mileage but I was under the distinct impression that in not honouring the charge I would jeopardise my chances of getting further credit from the finance company in question at the very least (I know there is no adverse mark on my credit file - merely a note that a VT has taken place) but with the finance company being BMWFS and my immediate take up of another finance deal through them and no doubt, again in future, any souring of the relationship would have a meaningful impact directly on me!

 

 Have you got first-hand experience of taking this course of action yourself, @sjak92 ?

 

VT-ing? No. Rejecting - which is forcing BMW FS to purchase the vehicle back off of me after 13 months (on a 8k per annum allowance and having done 17k in that time) Yes I did.

 

Whilst BMW FS tried to push the excess millage on me, I got money back off of them. The finance shows no markers on my file just says satisfied like any other closed loan, credit card or phone contract. Whilst the two situations are different, the principle matter is that you terminate the contract early, therefore no charges can apply. If you VT, your file would simply say "VT Satisfied"

 

I then ordered another car, the finance application went through instantly, not even a referral and BMW FS gave me a a hire car in anticipation of my new 5er arriving for 8 weeks free of charge for taking another agreement with them and my "loyalty" to the brand. 

 

Dumb it down to this:

 

1) What are you doing? Terminating the agreement

2) Is your action lawful? Yes

3) Can the termination have an adverse impact on you? No

 

I think you will find these two links useful

 

https://legalbeagles.info/forums/forum/legal-forums/motoring-parking/vehicle-finance-and-issues/77730-a-guide-to-voluntary-termination-your-rights

 

https://legalbeagles.info/forums/forum/legal-forums/motoring-parking/vehicle-finance-and-issues/97804-voluntary-termination-letter-templates

 

Edited by sjak92

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4 hours ago, sjak92 said:

 

Please don't tell me you plan on paying that if you have VT'd the car?

 

When you exercise your right to a  voluntary termination under the Consumer Credit Act,  you do not have to pay any excess millage and only fair wear and tear counts.

You can ask for a VT at any time whatsoever but a finance company could then only pursue you for a maximum of 50% of the value  of the agreement. This is your right and its there to protect you as a consumer by terminating the contract. Once the contract is terminated the conditions within it are not enforceable. 

 

Finance companies hate the law, they don't hate you for it. The whole point of the CCA was to give protection to folk who can no longer could afford monthly payments.

 

Realistically however, PCP are now VT'd as often as cars are traded in for a newer model. I literately spoke to my dealer the other week who is desperate to sell me another car and I told him I'm upside down on the millage, that I plan to keep it for another 18 months and then trade in as I will have more use of the car and incidentally, should be back in positive millage as I drive a lot less now. His words were, if a good car comes up (looking at a 540i) then just VT yours and we'll get you into another one in no time.

 

BMW FS or whoever you had the finance with have absolute no right to put any marker on your credit report that would adversely affect it. It will simply say the finance was "satisifed". The same process occurs if you reject a vehicle on finance. 

Because Finance companies know that people take advantage of excess miles and VT's they threat on whatever they can - fees, unfair wear and tear, mileage blah blah blah.

 

Take videos, pictures etc etc to document the car as best you can in its condition, hand it back to the collection firm and DO NOT sign anything about accepting excess charges, just say "no, take it away please".

 

If you dont believe me, read the Act or the hundreds of similar posts on forums. 

 

Oh and of course, enjoy the new car. 

 

This is really interesting for sure, thanks sjak92. My boy is looking to VT his car soon. There must be loads of people with diesel PCP's doing the same as the GFV when they financed the car has plummeted since, so, where is the incentive to do anything but VT it.

 

The critical thing for my boy is like jannism, he is over on his agreed miles by some way as his job changed since he took the finance out. I don't mean to doubt what you have said, or indeed question your authority in these matters, but, are you absolutely sure what you have said about the mileage true sir please as that puts him in an even better position when VT time comes? Thanks, appreciated........Dave

 

 

Edited by nashdm2

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Right, I should make one thing straight (if it not clear already) I’m not providing you with legal advice and anything that you attempt or do is at your own risk.

 

I have merely explained what the letter of the law says and have provided links (above) which reaffirm that and provide far more in depth detail about the Voluntary Termination Process.

 

You must however remember that just because this is the case that does not mean that this will always be the case.

 

As an example, if you are contracted to do 8k miles a year over 4 years (at 9.9p per mile excess) but end up doing 100k miles and attempt to VT 2 months before the end of the agreement, then I’m fairly sure that any manufacturer will pursue you to an extent for then £6732 (as per example) due. With such a sum, maybe even through courts and you may be the precedents that rules forthwith.

 

Esentially, what I’m saying is you can except use your rights, but don’t take the piss, as you may get your wings clipped.

 

if your son is worried about a substantial amount of miles over the allowance then maybe it’s safer to visit a dealer now and see if they have cars available on 0% Apr that will get him out of a rut and do a deal on the day (as dealers are often willing to do that).

 

Also, I don’t think diesel will have anything to do with VT’s. If, on the flip side you are within your miles and trade the car in, you will always be in some (however small) positive equity due to the GFV the dealer guaranteed you on your car.

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Think it’s also worth reiterating at this point that your GFV doesn’t fluctuate. What you agree to at the beginning of your agreement is what you either owe, or effectively lose, at the end. 

 

Things like cars are only worth what the open market deems them to be worth at any given point but the GFV is what it says it is, guaranteed. If that means that buying it outright from the finance company works out badly for you then suck it up. Generally, if you’ve put in a reasonable deposit then this won’t happen and the dealer will happily use your car as collateral, no matter how apparently worthless you think it may be, towards the next motor they want to send your way. 

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Dieselgate... this makes me laugh. If you went for a trade in with your 3 year old diesel (irrespective how you financed it) any salesman would give you an insultingly low offer - as they would for a petrol too. It's their business, it's how they make money, and how it has run for decades now. Except for nowadays they'll add the all-justifying line "no-one wants diesels any more". Lies. They'll take the car, and if it meets their standard, will put it on their forecourt at a healthy mark up (again like they've always done), and if it's the right car - like pretty much any 520d or 530d for example - they'll sell it quickly. Anyone who actually falls for any salesman guff about diesels should look at used prices on Autotrader or BMW AUC. Plummeting values? I don't think so, just regular depreciation.

 

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10 minutes ago, BFleming said:

Dieselgate... this makes me laugh. If you went for a trade in with your 3 year old diesel (irrespective how you financed it) any salesman would give you an insultingly low offer - as they would for a petrol too. It's their business, it's how they make money, and how it has run for decades now. Except for nowadays they'll add the all-justifying line "no-one wants diesels any more". Lies. They'll take the car, and if it meets their standard, will put it on their forecourt at a healthy mark up (again like they've always done), and if it's the right car - like pretty much any 520d or 530d for example - they'll sell it quickly. Anyone who actually falls for any salesman guff about diesels should look at used prices on Autotrader or BMW AUC. Plummeting values? I don't think so, just regular depreciation.

 

 

I agree with the above 100% and have been laughing at everyone who says that diesel prices will plummet. This is absolute nonsense.

 

15 years ago e had the threat from the government that petrol is bad, then a brief spell of saying that manufacturing hybrids is awful, in 10 years time, they will use the excuse that recycling batteries in cars in bad for the environment. 

 

If diesels are so bad and so much effort is being made to get rid of them by the government, how comes road tax went up for petrol's as well? Also, if they are dropping in value, why is a base 520d M Sport now almost £41k OTR but was just above £39k OTR when i ordered 17 month ago?

 

It is all absolute stupidity to scare people,  why is Germany (who uses diesels much more than we do) not banning to the same extent at all as we are? We only loose out as the government tries to get people out of old cars, into new expensive ones on favorable PCP's so you pay more tax an they get more money from it.

 

If it wasn't for this stupidity, we would have cars like the M550d or even 540d which would sell at volumes but BMW is not prepared to offer them because of this dieselgate nonsense. 

Edited by sjak92

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