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Remap or not?

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So, my late ‘64 plate F11 535d is in for its MOT next week. My local indie offers an “undetectable remap unless you drive it” with 60+ Bhp gain and huge more dollops of torque for £400.

 

I’ve always had a need for speed. Whilst the 535d is no slouch as we know, I’m regularly thinking “just how fast could this go”.

 

Ive got about 5 months of BMW warranty left. Obviously the extra torque is going to make itself known through the ‘box....

 

Any advice, or experiences out there?

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Not a F11, but loved my car (525 3.0D twin scroll turbo) even more since being remapped and you would have allot more torque than me! :)

 

Are you already sitting around the 308bhp/465lb figure at the moment?  The guy on here called 'Mashed Potatoes' will be able to give you more info as he maps cars the last time i checked.

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Hi mate. Yes, that’s the one I have.

 

A few years back I had an aggressive remap on an Alfa, and the difference was staggering. The improved economy paid for the remap in a little over a year. I had no problems at all with it, well not until I ended up driving it into a river, but that’s another story!

 

i have seen Mashed Potatoes thread, which is really interesting but he’s miles away.

 

i guess I’m looking for real world experiences and as much reassurance as possible about long time reliability. Cake and eat it and all that!

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I wouldn't be doing it while under warranty, and even after warranty any goodwill will go out the window if they detect it (by driving it).  The there is the issue of letting your insurance company know, or not.  And while highly unlikely what if you have an accident and it is detected (and these cars are prime candidates) by you insurance company, what then?

 

I get the appeal, but as you say your car as no slouch to begin with.  You roll the dice you takes your choice!

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Do it, but declare it to your insurance company - nothing is undetectable if you know exactly where to look. It's highly unlikely that an insurance company would remove the ECU and go searching for signs of a remap, but in my experience the insurance premium increase is fairly small, so it's not worth the risk. Just factor it into the cost of the remap.

 

I 100% recommend remapping though. The feel, economy, performance and overall drivability of the car will improve. IMO, it's the best value for money option you can add to your car.

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Agree with the insurance info, i told mine and didn't go up allot at all! 

 

May be wrong but would assume you would get more than 60bhp+ on the twin turbo model you have, for example Celtic Tuning claim the following... 400bhp / 570lb/ft 

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Cheers all. Not concerned too much about the insurance, it’s the industry I work in and it has some perks.

 

Any long term experience out there? The performance gains seem pretty decent, but also interested in any gains or not in economy.

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I can't comment on the 535D remapping, but I've had my last three cars remapped and none suffered any negative consequences and all saw an increase in MPG. I ran a remapped Octavia VRS for 70k miles, a remapped Leon FR (which my Mrs now has) and both regularly saw +10MPG on pre-remap figures. My current 520D was remapped circa. 25k miles ago and I get 55MPG on the daily commute, 60MPG if I'm trying to be good, which is +5-10MPG from pre-remap figures.

 

The beauty of it is when you're just plodding along normally, you get the benefit of more torque, which means acceleration needs less revs (higher gear), fewer gear changes and therefore results in better MPG. But when you floor it, you get all the power and torque performance benefits!

 

At first though, you'll floor it everywhere and your MPG will be terrible :) 

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Yes, my remapped Alfa 159 became a bit of a beast post remap. And, 28mpg became 38mpg. 50,000 miles and no issues.

 

i think I read somewhere though the 535d box has a max recommended torque rating at 700nm, but a remap can exceed that....

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I'm probably being naive, but how do you get an increase in power, torque and mpg with no negative effects? 

Wouldn't the manufacturers programme in the same mapping if there's no downside? 

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3 minutes ago, Caesar said:

I'm probably being naive, but how do you get an increase in power, torque and mpg with no negative effects? 

Wouldn't the manufacturers programme in the same mapping if there's no downside? 

The negative effect is emissions so to get the cars to meet the ever increasing clean air targets set by the world nazi’s, the manufacturer sets the engine up to pass said emissions and in doing so they basically turn down the power and torque this has a knock on effect on mpg. 

Well that how I understand it anyway! ;) 

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1 hour ago, Caesar said:

I'm probably being naive, but how do you get an increase in power, torque and mpg with no negative effects? 

Wouldn't the manufacturers programme in the same mapping if there's no downside? 

I am of similar mindset ..

for me it defies logic, physics and chemistry...

for the same fuel (energy in ) you remap and actually only end up using 80% of the fuel post re map but obtain 25% increase in power and more claimed in mpg...

 

I know some people say its because the mixture is altered and higher boost is used so more oxygen is used basically resulting in the power increase mpg increase...

 

But and its a big BUT why would manufacturers not do this make their VWs and BMWs so powerful and run on a few drops of diesel ??

 

I just always think its just far fetched,

 

And yes I did try it once along time ago on a VW Bora yes the car would feel like a jet engine but it smoked like a chimney and the vibration was felt through the car mpg was showing 60 odd instead of 45mpg, I  turned around and said mate put it back to how it was thank you.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Caesar said:

So you have to disable the remap for the MOT I guess... 

 

Thats what I'm thinking too. Increased emissions would be a fail.

 

Hopefully will pick up all the illegally removed DPFs too.

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I don't believe in remaps either. BMW have some of the most skilled engineers in the business. If that level of power was available safely and reliably, it would leave the factory that way. Yes I get the point about compromising to minimise emissions but in my opinion if we care about the planet and people's lives then we should respect that compromise as well.

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I don’t think people here understand the reason for remaps and their benefit.

 

it boils down to two things:

 

1) as stock an engine has substantial safe power reserves. For example, a BMW 316d, 318d, 320d and 325d in an F3x use the exact same engine, but the power output difference is 107bhp and 180nm that is huge a it’s all the same engine. A 325d is nearing its top end and few people remap the 2.0 diesels beyond that. 

2) the maps from BMW are designed to be as level across the board as possible. They take into account fuel quality around their markets and develop around that - the USA is an exception - so, despite having good quality fuels in Europe we will get the same map as the Chinese or African market where fuels could be lesser quality. We therefore suffer. But it’s cheaper for BMW and safer all round.

 

A properly done remap, by a reputable company will be better to drive, improve economy and should not fail emissions tests unless you have a DPF removed (which is pointless and far riskier)

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53 minutes ago, sjak92 said:

I don’t think people here understand the reason for remaps and their benefit.

 

it boils down to two things:

 

1) as stock an engine has substantial safe power reserves. For example, a BMW 316d, 318d, 320d and 325d in an F3x use the exact same engine, but the power output difference is 107bhp and 180nm that is huge a it’s all the same engine. A 325d is nearing its top end and few people remap the 2.0 diesels beyond that. 

2) the maps from BMW are designed to be as level across the board as possible. They take into account fuel quality around their markets and develop around that - the USA is an exception - so, despite having good quality fuels in Europe we will get the same map as the Chinese or African market where fuels could be lesser quality. We therefore suffer. But it’s cheaper for BMW and safer all round.

 

A properly done remap, by a reputable company will be better to drive, improve economy and should not fail emissions tests unless you have a DPF removed (which is pointless and far riskier)

 

And, “the same engine in different states of tune” is common across pretty much every volume car producer.

 

Remapping is common across all makes, and brands more premium than ours. My underwriting manager had his 911 remapped recently, and it’s common in his peer group too.

 

Decent remappers will factor in emissions when tuning, so each map is bespoke to each car. There are plenty “off the shelf” options but that obviously raises the chance of problems.

 

When I had my Alfa remapped, I also had the DPF removed and it still sailed through the MOT. However, I put it back on after being educated on the nasty health downsides.

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I've had 2 remapped cars mot'd with no issues, they are detectable if looked for (checksum differs) but you have to weigh up the pros and cons. A remapped engine won't wipe out all your warranty, just the engine and associated bits (gearbox and drive train). 

 

You do need to declare it to your insurer, some won't like it and you may need to look for an alternative provider. 

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On ‎10‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 8:11 AM, sjak92 said:

1) as stock an engine has substantial safe power reserves. For example, a BMW 316d, 318d, 320d and 325d in an F3x use the exact same engine, but the power output difference is 107bhp and 180nm that is huge a it’s all the same engine. A 325d is nearing its top end and few people remap the 2.0 diesels beyond that. 

 

I don't know about these particular engines, but I think it is often more than just being de-tuned with a different map - there are other differences usually as well to go with that. An old example on the petrol side - the Audi TT, two models 180bhp and 225bhp. Same block but many differences, including different exhaust, and a different turbo.

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9 hours ago, Tuvoc said:

 

I don't know about these particular engines, but I think it is often more than just being de-tuned with a different map - there are other differences usually as well to go with that. An old example on the petrol side - the Audi TT, two models 180bhp and 225bhp. Same block but many differences, including different exhaust, and a different turbo.

 

Youre sort of right and wrong. That Audi 1.8 was sort of the same engine, but all different engine codes suggesting the differences you mentioned.

 

The 2.0 bmw engine is all the N47 and later B47. 

 

 

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