Jump to content
525dleigh

E60 gearbox slipping

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, 535i Andrew said:

It's not unheard of 6HP boxes that have been serviced more than once to still fail at lowish miles.

It's also not unheard of 6HP boxes that have not been serviced to see more than 120,000 miles.

 

ZF and transmission specialists will tell you to get the box serviced at 60,000 miles but they make their money doing just that.

 

But a transmission specialist will tell you that many many things in an engine can produce the symptoms you describe. It's not unheard of for a camshaft sensor to throw a 6HP box into limp mode and leaving the owner thinking that they are going to be hit for a recon box at £3k.

 

Get it to a ZF transmission specialist who can properly diagnose the fault if it's in the engine or 'box. Other than doing that it's just guess work as to what's wrong with the box.

 

Mine is at 209K miles after one service and is starting to fail...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, 535i Andrew said:

Mine too started to fail after one service, just at about a third of your miles!

 

MIne was serviced at 165K though

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, 535i Andrew said:

But a transmission specialist will tell you that many many things in an engine can produce the symptoms you describe. It's not unheard of for a camshaft sensor to throw a 6HP box into limp mode and leaving the owner thinking that they are going to be hit for a recon box at £3k.

 

 

My old E36 used to go into limp mode quite frequently when cold. Then one service I replaced the spark plugs, and it never happened again. I had previously fitted some fancy 4-prong Bosch super duper plugs or something, and replacing them with standard OEM spec items cured it. I had it for years after that and it never re-surfaced. Bizarre but totally true. The electrical characteristics of the plugs must have been slightly different and causing a transient fault.

 

That ZF 5-speed box lasted until I scrapped the car at close to 200k miles. It had specific symptoms of wear, but as long as you adapted your driving accordingly it was still a joy to drive.

 

My E60 is now at about 143k miles and no issues after a service at 105k miles. I only intend to keep it a couple more years, so unlikely I'll do it again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Tuvoc said:

 

My old E36 used to go into limp mode quite frequently when cold. Then one service I replaced the spark plugs, and it never happened again. I had previously fitted some fancy 4-prong Bosch super duper plugs or something, and replacing them with standard OEM spec items cured it. I had it for years after that and it never re-surfaced. Bizarre but totally true. The electrical characteristics of the plugs must have been slightly different and causing a transient fault.

 

That ZF 5-speed box lasted until I scrapped the car at close to 200k miles. It had specific symptoms of wear, but as long as you adapted your driving accordingly it was still a joy to drive.

 

My E60 is now at about 143k miles and no issues after a service at 105k miles. I only intend to keep it a couple more years, so unlikely I'll do it again.

Sad fact is those plugs were approved by BMW as a long life version, they caused a lot of people problems, myself included.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, GoNz0 said:

Sad fact is those plugs were approved by BMW as a long life version, they caused a lot of people problems, myself included.

 

Plugs in my E60 were changed about 60,000 miles, as per BMW service requirements.

 

Plugs in my F10 were changed about 38,000 miles, as per BMW service requirements.

 

That shows the advancement in technology for you.

 

And for Diesel drivers here is what a spark plug is.;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, 535i Andrew said:

 

Plugs in my E60 were changed about 60,000 miles, as per BMW service requirements.

 

Plugs in my F10 were changed about 38,000 miles, as per BMW service requirements.

 

That shows the advancement in technology for you.

 

And for Diesel drivers here is what a spark plug is.;)

 

That's probably more due to increasingly strict emissions regs than anything else

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe i shouldnt have had a service after all.The first car iv decided to take some precautionary measures on and its still going tits up.My moto was buy them cheap and drive them into the ground i think i may have to adopt that moto again :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, 525dleigh said:

Maybe i shouldnt have had a service after all.The first car iv decided to take some precautionary measures on and its still going tits up.My moto was buy them cheap and drive them into the ground i think i may have to adopt that moto again :D

 

If the box is going to go it will give up irrespective. TC don't fail at 75,000 miles unless frequently drag racing off the lights. The symptom points to an 'inferior/substitute' oil being used.

 

I did the service at 130,000 miles because the pan was leaking with rough changes on an incline (low oil). I supplied the parts and the changes were smooth and seemless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, jake13 said:

 

If the box is going to go it will give up irrespective. TC don't fail at 75,000 miles unless frequently drag racing off the lights. The symptom points to an 'inferior/substitute' oil being used.

 

I did the service at 130,000 miles because the pan was leaking with rough changes on an incline (low oil). I supplied the parts and the changes were smooth and seemless.

Well if thats the case the bmw specialist will be footing the bill or i will be footing his ass

No drag racing off the lights and i dont think the car has been abused at all so maybe your right about the oil used 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Got the car back from Mackies today and it is much better. John, suggested we take it out so he could assess anything. A little slip in one gear and that's all... Thank crunchie....... The rattling is something else... Highly recommend these guys and nobody else like them here... Thx Andrew..... Of course it all goes belly up then that's just how it is..... Because wear and tear from owner before me was not into driving like some of us are....... but yes it will go at some point.... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/2/2018 at 3:33 PM, 535i Andrew said:

It's not unheard of 6HP boxes that have been serviced more than once to still fail at lowish miles.

It's also not unheard of 6HP boxes that have not been serviced to see more than 120,000 miles.

 

ZF and transmission specialists will tell you to get the box serviced at 60,000 miles but they make their money doing just that.

 

But a transmission specialist will tell you that many many things in an engine can produce the symptoms you describe. It's not unheard of for a camshaft sensor to throw a 6HP box into limp mode and leaving the owner thinking that they are going to be hit for a recon box at £3k.

 

Get it to a ZF transmission specialist who can properly diagnose the fault if it's in the engine or 'box. Other than doing that it's just guess work as to what's wrong with the box.

I took the car to a zf specialist tuesday he said it needs to be refurbed at £1900 plus vat.That includes recon tc,bushes,clutches plates and new oil,he said its just tired and gear ratio is all that came up on diagnostics

 

For me its a hard pill to swallow i paid £6000 for it last september i have had glow plugs,lower arm, discs, service and gearbox service and now gearbox fails at 75000 miles,throttle actuator needs doing at £397,rear brake shoes are grabbing may need whole new rear brakes on rear around £400 along with track rod end im just disapointed with bmw.My e36s didnt have these kind of issues and they were years old.The car doesnt seem to have been abused 

 

What options do i have ? Could i try just the tc recon and new oil for £800 or cut my losses and part ex,They are money pits lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It can happen. I paid £4,500 for mine 5 years ago, and spent £4,000 in maintenance and repairs in the first year. That included a gearbox service £320 or so, and thankfully the transmission and TC seem fine so far, fingers crossed. Fortunately the bills have been more reasonable since then. I came from an E36 also, and it was a bit of a shock. But there you go, later cars are so much more complex. This will almost certainly be my last BMW, unless I can afford a near-new one with a warranty.

Edited by Tuvoc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

e60, 55 reg 525d auto with 75000 miles ...

 

:shock: Sounds like you got one of those Friday the 13th builds.

Or just unlucky to have all that maintenance/repairs land in the same period of ownership, on a 13 year old motor.

Sadly seems that it can happen a bit too often with the E60s.
 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Tuvoc said:

It can happen. I paid £4,500 for mine 5 years ago, and spent £4,000 in maintenance and repairs in the first year. That included a gearbox service £320 or so, and thankfully the transmission and TC seem fine so far, fingers crossed. Fortunately the bills have been more reasonable since then. I came from an E36 also, and it was a bit of a shock. But there you go, later cars are so much more complex. This will almost certainly be my last BMW, unless I can afford a near-new one with a warranty.

I agree it may be the last for me too.They look lovely but thats as far as it goes lol Its nice when there driving without fault but that doesnt last long before there is a stack of jobs racking up.Its getting uncomfortable too banging over everything...maybe i am realising i hate the thing ha 

 

32 minutes ago, DarkHorse said:

 

:shock: Sounds like you got one of those Friday the 13th builds.

Or just unlucky to have all that maintenance/repairs land in the same period of ownership, on a 13 year old motor.

Sadly seems that it can happen a bit too often with the E60s.
 

 

Maybe i should sell it tomorrow so someone else has a horrid friday the 13th haha joking i have just got to take the loss and sell it cheap iv learnt my lesson 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I e said it for a few years,I would never recommend an e60 diesel to anyone,to many problems that pop up

All too regular..I was contemplating a 640d but just don’t trust the brand anymore..mine will stay till it needs something I deem more than ots

worth then I’ll part ex or sell cheap..I’d also be honest rather than rob somebody blind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/4/2018 at 9:05 PM, jake13 said:

 

If the box is going to go it will give up irrespective. TC don't fail at 75,000 miles unless frequently drag racing off the lights. The symptom points to an 'inferior/substitute' oil being used.

 

Hmmmm, mine was serviced where @RightHandGoose went at 48,000 miles as a precautionary measure.  It then fails at less than that mileage again.

 

Was it something that happened during the first service?  During the flush did it dislodge something that led to mine failing?

 

Sadly I will never know.

 

But given the number of 6HP boxes out there, the failures are very low.  Its just wallet busting when they do fail.

 

Its your Donald Duck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, 535i Andrew said:

 

Hmmmm, mine was serviced where @RightHandGoose went at 48,000 miles as a precautionary measure.  It then fails at less than that mileage again.

 

Was it something that happened during the first service?  During the flush did it dislodge something that led to mine failing?

 

Sadly I will never know.

 

But given the number of 6HP boxes out there, the failures are very low.  Its just wallet busting when they do fail.

 

Its your Donald Duck.

Yes i think something is disturbed during the service i wouldnt advise it unless it has high mileage and is showing signs of wear.Mine was just abit jerky maybe an update for £90 should be the first port of call before going for £400 service that may cause more issues than it solves

 

Its an expensive lesson to learn but i have seen a few posts where people have just changed tc and and had good results for £700 ish.Just got to decide if its a chance i want to risk or whether to cut my losses now 

 

Cheers for all your replies chaps 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ZF will say to get it serviced at 60,000 miles. 

 

Mine went into limp mode, I too thought a software update would cure it but when Mackie's looked at it, they advised that it had the most up to date software already. Car hadn't had any updates since 2009.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, 535i Andrew said:

ZF will say to get it serviced at 60,000 miles. 

 

Mine went into limp mode, I too thought a software update would cure it but when Mackie's looked at it, they advised that it had the most up to date software already. Car hadn't had any updates since 2009.

Im dont think mine has had any updates it has always jolted into 2nd at a sudden stop and from 2nd to 3rd

 

Zf may just wamt the business why wouldnt they.Gearboc specialist said that the new oil could have caused the seals to go as the old oil would be like treacle so thats from the horses mouth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, 525dleigh said:

Im dont think mine has had any updates it has always jolted into 2nd at a sudden stop and from 2nd to 3rd

 

Zf may just wamt the business why wouldnt they.Gearboc specialist said that the new oil could have caused the seals to go as the old oil would be like treacle so thats from the horses mouth

 

There are some rubber components in there that should always be replaced during an oil change though

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Dotcom1970 said:

 

There are some rubber components in there that should always be replaced during an oil change though

 

I'll let @RightHandGoose tell you about his conversations with a transmission specialist regarding rubber components being changed at a service........;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Steve AD said:

I e said it for a few years,I would never recommend an e60 diesel to anyone,to many problems that pop up

All too regular..I was contemplating a 640d but just don’t trust the brand anymore..mine will stay till it needs something I deem more than ots

worth then I’ll part ex or sell cheap..I’d also be honest rather than rob somebody blind.

 

BMW last in terms of reliability in JD Power survey:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/cars/article-5941481/The-brands-make-reliable-cars-revealed.html

 

 

The E60 is an old car, and an old complex car. That is a recipe for big bills. I would not buy one today at all.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Tuvoc said:

 

BMW last in terms of reliability in JD Power survey:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/cars/article-5941481/The-brands-make-reliable-cars-revealed.html

 

 

The E60 is an old car, and an old complex car. That is a recipe for big bills. I would not buy one today at all.

 

I just hope the next man to buy my car doesnt have this view :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×