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18 minutes ago, BacktoBeemer said:

 

They will come out of the Dealerships Marketing Budget.....

 

Makes sense 

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On 08/03/2018 at 10:24 AM, Dalton Vaas said:

I was going to order back in December where the Carwow discount on a 540i was a whopping 24%

 

I really regret that I didn't as now the max I am getting is about 17% (which on a £60k list is a heck of a difference!)

Hope the 24% discounts are on when I look to change. Like you say on a £60K car it's a heck of a difference.

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I'm not sure dealers really add any value TBH.  Its the same issue as with retail vs online shopping. The dealership is useful as a place to look at the car - but they didn't have the exact car I wanted so it was an approximation.

 

Dont think I will got to a dealer next time. I usually buy cars direct from discount websites and been doing that since 1998. (that was before websites of course - instead it was full page adverts in Autotrader)

 

Funny thing is they auctioned off my PX car ( it was a non BMW),  and when  I searched for it in the used car sites it was selling at a near 50% markup!. It sold within 2 weeks  There is money in used cars. I had got several trade in valuations and I thought I got a good trade in

 

 

Edited by Carrera77

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On 06/03/2018 at 10:17 PM, AndrewC said:

Collected my CarWow G31 530D xDrive MSport with 22% discount from the dealer today - I have to say it wasn't the warmest or most enthusiastic new car handover I've ever experienced - they virtually just gave me the keys and waved me on my way.

 

No umbrella either..... :-)

 

(The salesman said they had actually lost close to £2K on the deal, but it was still preferable to do a deal like this than them pre-registering cars).

 

As an aside, and ultimately totally irrelevant, the salesman knew the square root of f**k all about the car. I was telling him about fairly basic features that he hadn't even heard of.

 

 

Had this with my current car used Coast2Coast to get a quote (25% discount) which my local Dealer reluctantly matched. No umbrella no interest in discounting any service plan really no interest at all part from giving me the key and saying goodbye. I can live with it though as I have found with most car Dealers once you've signed the paperwork and they've taken the money they all lose interest. 

 

When it comes to changing this I will do the same again as I can live with crap customer service for a 25% discount.

 

Like others have said the Dealers seem to make the money on your PX or they have in my case PX my last car got £18000 for it Dealer put it on his forecourt for nearly £28000 nice little profit.

 

 

Edited by Steveo1

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1 hour ago, Steveo1 said:

Hope the 24% discounts are on when I look to change. Like you say on a £60K car it's a heck of a difference.

 

I'm literally hunting around now and quite frantically as i'm aiming to change (take delivery) within the next 6 months or so, doesn't really leave me with much time to be honest.

 

That being said all the current Carwow deals seem to expire at the end of March,  my local dealer however told me that with the new financial year in April, he only expects discounts from Carwow and the like to be the same at best and worst in all likelihood by a few %

 

I will have to wait and see...

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On ‎08‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 10:24 AM, Dalton Vaas said:

I was going to order back in December where the Carwow discount on a 540i was a whopping 24%

 

I really regret that I didn't as now the max I am getting is about 17% (which on a £60k list is a heck of a difference!)

 

 funny you should say that

If I was buying my car today (instead of last October) it would likely be a 540i . Perhaps more people are leaning that way. More demand less discounting.

 

Diesel feels a bit fragile at the moment. 

 

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Related topic. I've generally kept my cars, so when I get close to the end of my PCP, it will be new territory for me. How does it work in practice? I assume you get to negotiate price all over again...? Or do they have a little more power in that you're at least committed to that brand? Are the discounts we're talking about achievable..?

 

I ask as there seemed to be bigger dealer contributions available at the start of the financial year, while received wisdom would suggest year end, when they need to make targets, is the best time. Or is that all just a red herring? 

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1 hour ago, G Whizz said:

Related topic. I've generally kept my cars, so when I get close to the end of my PCP, it will be new territory for me. How does it work in practice? I assume you get to negotiate price all over again...? Or do they have a little more power in that you're at least committed to that brand? Are the discounts we're talking about achievable..?

 

I ask as there seemed to be bigger dealer contributions available at the start of the financial year, while received wisdom would suggest year end, when they need to make targets, is the best time. Or is that all just a red herring? 

 

everything is smoke and mirrors with the dealers. :lol:  

 

You have no commitment to the brand at the end of the contract.  You either pay the final value, or hand the car back to them. They sell it as an approved user car, with the usual mark-up, plus their finance charges. Hopefully you will buy another Beemer, and repeat the cycle but its up to you 

 

The only difference is you will have no car to PX. I think that's OK. Say you buy a car for cash and at the end of 3 years have 20k equity in the car. I'm reasonably good at investing and could have made much better use of that 20K, instead of it sitting as dead money. So working out value for money is pretty complex.....

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4 hours ago, Carrera77 said:

 

everything is smoke and mirrors with the dealers. :lol:  

 

You have no commitment to the brand at the end of the contract.  You either pay the final value, or hand the car back to them. They sell it as an approved user car, with the usual mark-up, plus their finance charges. Hopefully you will buy another Beemer, and repeat the cycle but its up to you 

 

The only difference is you will have no car to PX. I think that's OK. Say you buy a car for cash and at the end of 3 years have 20k equity in the car. I'm reasonably good at investing and could have made much better use of that 20K, instead of it sitting as dead money. So working out value for money is pretty complex.....

 

Investing money elsewhere? So surely you wouldn’t invest £50k into a new car buying cash and allowing it to depreciate.

 

the PCP is designed for you to only pay for depreciation over time rather than in one hit. That’s much more sensible with any asset that is bound to loose value 

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10 minutes ago, sjak92 said:

 

Investing money elsewhere? So surely you wouldn’t invest £50k into a new car buying cash and allowing it to depreciate.

 

the PCP is designed for you to only pay for depreciation over time rather than in one hit. That’s much more sensible with any asset that is bound to loose value 

 

huh all machinery depreciates - there is no question of not allowing it to depreciate

 

the PCP is a loan at 2.9 % interest (or whatever) . It has a cost : say about £2500 - £3000.  If you paid cash upfront you would not pay interest charges, but that depends on which is a better option.  Would the cash get a better return elsewhere while you pay off the loan. If you were running a business that would be an easy answer

 

But what I was saying is that you definitely dont want to have equity in your car if you are going to replace it in  3 years. That's locking up capital unnecessarily

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On 3/12/2018 at 10:48 PM, Carrera77 said:

 

huh all machinery depreciates - there is no question of not allowing it to depreciate

 

the PCP is a loan at 2.9 % interest (or whatever) . It has a cost : say about £2500 - £3000.  If you paid cash upfront you would not pay interest charges, but that depends on which is a better option.  Would the cash get a better return elsewhere while you pay off the loan. If you were running a business that would be an easy answer

 

But what I was saying is that you definitely dont want to have equity in your car if you are going to replace it in  3 years. That's locking up capital unnecessarily

 

Sorry, I misunderstood you. I completely agree in that case. 

 

I don't run my own business but for me it made much more sense to invest into the property market or shares. In terms of equity on a car, absolutely. Hence I hate the fact that many dealers will ask you to calculate how much you drive a year and then add 1k miles just to be safe.

 

Thats putting money directly into their own pocket. I tend to set my millage low and almost always will end up with more miles than my agreement putting me in "negative equity". Even if I'm say 18k miles over limit, I will then push the dealer for a better discount if they want my business.  They will still take your car for a PX, never worry about that but will insist on a higher deposit to alleviate the "negative equity".

 

My old man recently to BMW, his car was 15k over millage limit, this was around £1600 in negative equity. The dealer gave us quotes etc etc we went armed with CarWow discount. We said get rid of the Negative Equity and give a discount if you want the business, if not someone else will. 

 

Old man has a 320d GT on his driveway now. 

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1 hour ago, sjak92 said:

 

My old man recently to BMW, his car was 15k over millage limit, this was around £1600 in negative equity. The dealer gave us quotes etc etc we went armed with CarWow discount. We said get rid of the Negative Equity and give a discount if you want the business, if not someone else will. 

 

Old man has a 320d GT on his driveway now. 

 

 

This is why I asked as I'm heading well over my contract mileage.

It's not clear from what you wrote what happened - did you end up at the CarWow number (more or less), or did they factor in the equity as well?

I'm tired, so this maybe a dippy question - I'm assuming that the old car didn't count towards/in the deal? I think I plan to try to renew in q1 as the dealer contributions are highest then I believe, and won't have a trade in to add to it. Last time they paid well over the odds for my old car (long story) so that helped significantly as well.

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46 minutes ago, G Whizz said:

 

 

This is why I asked as I'm heading well over my contract mileage.

It's not clear from what you wrote what happened - did you end up at the CarWow number (more or less), or did they factor in the equity as well?

I'm tired, so this maybe a dippy question - I'm assuming that the old car didn't count towards/in the deal? I think I plan to try to renew in q1 as the dealer contributions are highest then I believe, and won't have a trade in to add to it. Last time they paid well over the odds for my old car (long story) so that helped significantly as well.

 

Looking back at Carwow the discount was approximately £7929, his negative equity was £1.6k. Walked out with PCP price of OTR less £7750 +/- discount if my memory serves correct. So effectively his negative equity was reduced down to around £200

 

Just looking at my figures now, my agreement is on 8k a year, by my maths, I will do 14k this year and presume that will be the same going forwards unless i change jobs. 

 

My allowance is therefore 666 miles a month but i do around 1166 miles a month, so 500 miles a month excess. 

 

I plan to change the car in its 36th month (more or less when an LCI 5 should be out), so car will have around 42k miles against a limit at that time of 24k miles so an excess of 18k miles giving a negative equity of £1962, thats £54.50 per month if that makes sense. 

 

I imagine (and hope using my dad as a guinea pig) that I should get around £1650/£1700 knocked off of that. Even with £500 in "negative equity" the excess would cost me around £15 a month rather than £42 if I had contracted it in. 

 

Hope that makes some sense. 

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That's very helpful, thanks, and makes perfect sense.

 

I don't think I'll be quite that far over the mileage, but trying to identify what my options are and what they might cost me, and to have a mild idea. For example, if I was going to keep the car (unlikely, but being thorough), I'd need to have the cash or card ready in advance. My inclination was to not worry too much about the negative equity, and that seems to support it.

 

The curve ball was whether both the PCP market and 2nd hand diesel markets might collapse in the intervening period (so approximately Feb 2020), and whether they may take a harder line. I guess that'll in turn be down to what the next car might be. I feel another spreadsheet coming on :-)

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2 hours ago, G Whizz said:

whether both the PCP market and 2nd hand diesel markets might collapse

 

That's the only thing which you cant possibly predict but could have a BIG impact. 

 

I myself am also leaning towards a petrol next, with 540i being ideal. Really want something with lots of grunt since selling the E46 M3 :(

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22 hours ago, sjak92 said:

 

Sorry, I misunderstood you. I completely agree in that case. 

 

I don't run my own business but for me it made much more sense to invest into the property market or shares. In terms of equity on a car, absolutely. Hence I hate the fact that many dealers will ask you to calculate how much you drive a year and then add 1k miles just to be safe.

 

Thats putting money directly into their own pocket. I tend to set my millage low and almost always will end up with more miles than my agreement putting me in "negative equity". Even if I'm say 18k miles over limit, I will then push the dealer for a better discount if they want my business.  They will still take your car for a PX, never worry about that but will insist on a higher deposit to alleviate the "negative equity".

 

My old man recently to BMW, his car was 15k over millage limit, this was around £1600 in negative equity. The dealer gave us quotes etc etc we went armed with CarWow discount. We said get rid of the Negative Equity and give a discount if you want the business, if not someone else will. 

 

Old man has a 320d GT on his driveway now. 

 

He could have just used the VT clause in his contract and chucked the keys back at BMWFS, then no negative equity at all. He could have then negotiated a better deal on new.

 

Applies to anyone nearing the end of a PCP - if you know you’re quite far over your mileage, then VT is the way to go.

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Just now, Back2Beemer said:

 

He could have just used the VT clause in his contract and chucked the keys back at BMWFS, then no negative equity at all. He could have then negotiated a better deal on new.

 

Applies to anyone nearing the end of a PCP - if you know you’re quite far over your mileage, then VT is the way to go.

 

Very True, however, you have to be 50% of the agreement through. 

 

He was 17 months into a 48 month deal. Change of circumstances for him caused a massive millage hike. 

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1 minute ago, sjak92 said:

 

Very True, however, you have to be 50% of the agreement through. 

 

He was 17 months into a 48 month deal. Change of circumstances for him caused a massive millage hike. 

 

True - sorry I’d just assumed he was at the end of / near the end of his agreement to be looking at trading in. 

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6 hours ago, sjak92 said:

 

That's the only thing which you cant possibly predict but could have a BIG impact. 

 

I myself am also leaning towards a petrol next, with 540i being ideal. Really want something with lots of grunt since selling the E46 M3 :(

 

I know they're about the same on paper, but a 540i feels a lot slower than an E46 M3, I really like my 540 but it's a comfy rather than exciting car.

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I had the 540i and the 530dx on consecutive weekends.  I love the 540i.  It has real pace.  But you have to work it.  The 530d is effortless and doesn't need to swap cogs to make good progress.  In my opinion, the diesel is the right choice for this car.  In a 3 series, maybe I'd go petrol...

Fuel economy was also masively different.  Trips to London each weekend so around 250 miles for us.  The 540i managed just 27mpg.  The 530d did 44mpg.  That's a whole world different to me when I do around 20k miles each year.

Money no object, what would I buy?  A 530dx.  Or an M3.

Edited by BRB

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2 hours ago, Johnyboy said:

 

I know they're about the same on paper, but a 540i feels a lot slower than an E46 M3, I really like my 540 but it's a comfy rather than exciting car.

 

I was planning on getting one again, they are going up in value and I think now is the time to get a decent one long term. 

 

As a package, the best car I’ve ever driven. I had a Phoenix yellow convertible with black leather and manual. Miss it loads but selling it got me onto the property ladder at 23 so was a wise choice.

 

I test drove a M140i (a much more sensible option to be honest) it was ABSOLUTELY rapid beyond my expectations. 

 

Now, going back to 540i, it’s the same engine as the M140i, but the 1 series gets 50nm more torque.

 

I have been told that with the PPK and M Performance exhaust, the 540i will be faster than a M140i and sound just as good. 

 

So someone said money no object? That would be an M550d hahaha

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No 550s coming to the uk unfortunately.

 

I had a few E46 m3s back in the early noughties and they were great, I can understand why they’re appreciating now.

 

540s are virtually silent inside, so whilst the mppsk noise is nice, it’s really people outside that will get to appreciate it

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Shame about the 540d and 550d. When I first test drove a G30 in Feb 2017, the dealer told me that had taken lots of deposits on the two without even having proper pricing. By the time I was ordering it was official they were cut from UK market. 

 

Both look like absolutely rapid cars, especially the M550d

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9 hours ago, sjak92 said:

 

I was planning on getting one again, they are going up in value and I think now is the time to get a decent one long term. 

 

As a package, the best car I’ve ever driven. I had a Phoenix yellow convertible with black leather and manual. Miss it loads but selling it got me onto the property ladder at 23 so was a wise choice.

 

I test drove a M140i (a much more sensible option to be honest) it was ABSOLUTELY rapid beyond my expectations. 

 

Now, going back to 540i, it’s the same engine as the M140i, but the 1 series gets 50nm more torque.

 

I have been told that with the PPK and M Performance exhaust, the 540i will be faster than a M140i and sound just as good. 

 

So someone said money no object? That would be an M550d hahaha

 

The sweet spot of the M3 range for me was the E9x, specifically actually I love the E90 (got a soft spot for fast saloons). Their value is only going to go one way, and that’s up. 

 

That engine is intoxicating, and a lot faster than the E46. 

 

Money no object for me would be the G30 Alpina B5.

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