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slam

Road Tax Fine

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Hi,

 

I received a fine for non payment of road tax. I bought the car from a local dealer, I set up a monthly direct debit for road tax.  Unknown to me for 2 months, the road tax did not renew automatically and I only found out about it when I received a fine through the door. The car had a current MOT, Insurance, active direct debit and money in the bank. The tax did not renew automatically because the V5 wasn't in my name. I thought this was a mistake, genuine believed I had the V5 document, raided the house for it, gave up and phoned the DVLA.

 

As it turns out the dealer had originally sent the old V5 to the DVLA with the wrong address in the new keeper section  but I managed to tax the car over the phone with a bit of persuasion.

 

I sent back a  letter, pointing out that I had it in writing when I taxed the car that the direct debit would renew automatically but the DVLA refused and stated "The onus is on the registered keeper to contact the DVLA within 4 to 6 weeks if the V5c certificate has not been received. Consequently you remain liable for the £80 LLP". The DVLA rejected my letter so I filled in an appeal form, provided more evidence from their website where it does not mention anything about being a registered keeper for the tax to renew.

 

The DVLA have refused my appeal saying that because I filled in the new keeper supplement incorrectly, I am still liable for the  fine. The problem though is I didn't fill in the form, if i did I would have put the correct door number and postcode and wouldn't be in this situation to begin with. It looks like the dealer has filled in the form and signed it on my behalf. I can prove this as I have a hand written sales receipt, it has my correct address so the dealer has forged my signature and messed up the address on the form. The biggest scandal is the DVLA have updated their website https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-tax-direct-debit/renewing after I sent in my appeal to say this...

 

"The vehicle keeper must have a vehicle logbook (V5C) before the vehicle tax is renewed.

If the vehicle keeper doesn’t have a V5C

Your Direct Debit will not automatically renew if there’s no vehicle keeper in DVLA’s records.

You can tell DVLA who the vehicle keeper is online.

If you don’t get an email or letter when your vehicle tax runs out, you should contact DVLA."

 

I sent the webpage in printed form to them in the appeal form before the site was update. I used the waybackmachine to look at the website as it was published last April - https://web.archive.org/web/20170425050847/https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-tax-direct-debit/renewing.

 

I admit that i made a genuine mistake in thinking that I had received the V5. Where I draw the line is the dealer signing a document on my behalf and the DVLA disregarding my evidence by covering it up on their website. So the appeal process is corrupt, trying to speak to a human at the DVLA is next to impossible. Now I have a debt collection agency chasing after me.

 

Even if the V5 wasn't in my name, I  still have about numerous  statements from the DVLA saying do not renew your car tax or you will be charged twice, you do not need to be the registered keeper of the car to tax automatically etc which should be good enough for a successful appeal.

 

Has anyone else been in a similar situation? Should I pay the fine and complain at a higher level?

 

 

 

 

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What a cluster fuck. So glad we wasted all that money switching to a massively more complex and expensive process. 

 

I'd pay the fine and get onto the dealer about it. 

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I'll need to pay the fine and then fight my case after. I don't think the DVLA enforcement team like the idea that I've beaten them, the appeal has been rejected out of spite and within a matter of days they've updated their website to counter argue my evidence. It's also the sellers responsibility to inform the DVLA of when a car is sold as I understand it they will still be held liable for road tax.

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i'm not sure the DVLA work on a 'spite' basis. Perhaps its the rules the particular person who dealt with your query has gone by, rather than a personal vendetta, as i'm guessing there is more than just your claim on their desk. 

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24 minutes ago, slam said:

 I don't think the DVLA enforcement team like the idea that I've beaten them, the appeal has been rejected out of spite and within a matter of days they've updated their website to counter argue my evidence. 

Yeah your spot on! :lol: 

seems as the DVLA revolves around you in trying to screw you out of £80 why don't you try and make it work in your favor....

 

joking aside, it's not really your fault however both you and the dealer are responsible so like it's been suggested already, pay the fine and take it up with the supplying dealer, unless they are in with the DVLA as well (probably taking back hander's....)  then you need to get moulder and scully on the case.....

 

:lol::lol:;) 

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I don't care about the money really, I could have paid the £40 fine and I would gladly take this to court purely out of principal. What bothers me the most is that the direct debit was set up, the  DVLA could have taken the money but they did not, they have  fined me for non payment but knew where to send the fine. They knew before me that there was a problem with the V5 document then they've seemingly used my appeal evidence to improve their website, the cheek! lol

 

I followed their instructions to the letter...

 

"You DON'T need to be the vehicle’s registered keeper to set up a Direct Debit."
"DON'T tax your vehicle again. If you do, you’ll be charged twice."
"Your vehicle tax will automatically renew unless you notify us of any changes. We will send a new payment schedule at the time of renewal. "
 
They made the appeal case for me by publishing the statements above,  then chose to ignore their own literature during the appeal process. I wonder how many other people have just rolled over and paid the fine.
 
As he introduction of direct debit payments is still relatively new, there should be more leniency for genuine issues especially when the DVLA are giving out contradicting instructions.
 
 
 

 

 

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On a similar theme I passed a Highways Agency white van parked on an A3 layby the other day with a dot-matrix display saying it was using ANPR to check for vehicles with valid RFL.

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I feel for you, OP. You tried to do the right thing, yet you are being penalised. We read that since the paper disc was scrapped, the numbers of untaxed vehicles has soared. How does this work ?

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Unless you can get a major media player like the beeb to fight your corner, you’re stuffed.  A national newspaper might be interested, but don’t hold your breath.

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I've written a letter to the DVLA with a copy of the hand written sales receipt, all they need to do is compare the sales receipt against the new keeper section to see that it's not my handwriting.  I also included copies of my passport and driving license so they can see my signature. We'll see what they say.

 

The MP is a good idea, I think a simple enough question is why can someone who is not the registered keeper of a car, set up a direct debit to tax a car but the DVLA can't renew the same direct debit ? How many millions of pounds lost in delayed payments, the cost of 3rd party debt collectors, negative impact on DVLA and Court resources.

Edited by slam

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Pay the fine.

 

1) you let somebody else fill the form out instead of doing it yourself

2) you have the money in your bank, you know it wasn't taken

 

No way an appeal will win.

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We'll soon find out ;p

 

1) Would you stand over someone, not just anyone but a car dealership, let them put your wrong address down and forge your signature?

2) I knew 2 months later when I received a fine, I also have a letter from the DVLA when I first set up the direct debit saying it will renew automatically. I'm not sure how many people check month to month on every direct debit, it's meant to be a system that once set up, looks after itself.

Edited by slam

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On 1/13/2018 at 8:42 AM, healeyneil said:

 We read that since the paper disc was scrapped, the numbers of untaxed vehicles has soared. How does this work ?

Because traffic wardens and police on foot patrol can no longer make a quick visual check of a vehicle's RFL and don't have time/can't be arsed to do an electronic check.

 

So the DVLA and Police are relying on ANPR to throw up vehicles without RFL. That will only work if you actually pass a vehicle with ANPR kit fitted and they tend to be parked on major routes where there is lots of traffic.

 

Chances of being caught are fairly slim so that helps the deliberate dodgers and without a paper disc to remind them few people actually remember when to tax their vehicle.

 

Like many others now, I pay my RFL monthly and like the OP rely on the DVLA to take the money and keep me legal, I honestly couldn't say if my car is taxed or not, I simply assume that they are taking the dosh therefore it is!

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DVLA are able to indenting and fine the OP.  Why doesn't their system automatically catch  all untaxed vehicles, or are all those tax dodgers not registering their vehicles properly- and not insuring either ?

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I am still firmly of the opinion the best way round this whole RFL malarky is to add tax to fuel. The money from the RFL goes into a central government coffer these day anyway, so it's not like it's ring-fenced for road maintenance or improvement.

 

Everyone who uses a vehicle has to buy fuel so there would be no dodging. Vehicles would effectively be taxed according to their road usage, so the driver doing 5,000 miles a year pays proportionally less than the driver doing 30,000 and the smaller, more frugal vehicles pay less than the gas guzzlers.

 

Add in the amount saved on administration, to say nothing of saving the costs of chasing and prosecuting offenders and it's a total no-brainer!

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11 minutes ago, pauliexjr said:

I am still firmly of the opinion the best way round this whole RFL malarky is to add tax to fuel. The money from the RFL goes into a central government coffer these day anyway, so it's not like it's ring-fenced for road maintenance or improvement.

 

Everyone who uses a vehicle has to buy fuel so there would be no dodging. Vehicles would effectively be taxed according to their road usage, so the driver doing 5,000 miles a year pays proportionally less than the driver doing 30,000 and the smaller, more frugal vehicles pay less than the gas guzzlers.

 

Add in the amount saved on administration, to say nothing of saving the costs of chasing and prosecuting offenders and it's a total no-brainer!

Completely agree with you!

but the reason they won't do this is then they can't fine anyone and make that little bit extra....

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Not strictly related to the topic but I had the pleasure of seeing off the DVLA for £60 recently because of their incompetence in managing such things. Just before new year I sold an old motorcycle of mine which was SORN (and had been for some time) just this week I got a refund cheque for £63 road tax back from the DVLA for said bike!  Got that cashed promptly before they changed their minds and realise their mistake!

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52 minutes ago, pauliexjr said:

I am still firmly of the opinion the best way round this whole RFL malarky is to add tax to fuel. The money from the RFL goes into a central government coffer these day anyway, so it's not like it's ring-fenced for road maintenance or improvement.

 

Everyone who uses a vehicle has to buy fuel so there would be no dodging. Vehicles would effectively be taxed according to their road usage, so the driver doing 5,000 miles a year pays proportionally less than the driver doing 30,000 and the smaller, more frugal vehicles pay less than the gas guzzlers.

 

Add in the amount saved on administration, to say nothing of saving the costs of chasing and prosecuting offenders and it's a total no-brainer!

 

100% agree, this is what HM Government agreed to do about 15 years ago, also justified as ensuring overseas visitors who drove here paid a bit more as well (no Swiss style road pass here). However what they did was massively increase the fuel tax and also the RFL at the same time............hmmmm, why do we not trust politicians?

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57 minutes ago, pauliexjr said:

I am still firmly of the opinion the best way round this whole RFL malarky is to add tax to fuel. The money from the RFL goes into a central government coffer these day anyway, so it's not like it's ring-fenced for road maintenance or improvement.

Agree, but there are two drawbacks - 1) foreign companies/hgvs will carry enough fuel never to need to fill up here, however we could introduce an overseas registered vehicle charge

2) the roadtax process is a good way to enforce a check on insurance of those vehicles on the road, otherwise we dont have a central record that owners are forced to use

Edited by SuperDave

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31 minutes ago, Modge said:

Not strictly related to the topic but I had the pleasure of seeing off the DVLA for £60 recently because of their incompetence in managing such things. Just before new year I sold an old motorcycle of mine which was SORN (and had been for some time) just this week I got a refund cheque for £63 road tax back from the DVLA for said bike!  Got that cashed promptly before they changed their minds and realise their mistake!

Mmmmm, notwithstanding your little profit, that must have been triggered by an automatic process, which if it is the case is pretty shocking! 

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