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GoNz0

The old thermostat questions (again)

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Well £197 spent at the stealers, identical unit but this has one complete sticker, otherwise bar the lack of dremel work you couldn't tell it apart.

 

will be interesting to see if the guy on the parts desk is telling the truth as he said if this one breaks down during the 2 years the car can come in for the warranty repair even if it isn't fitted by BMW and if faulty they will replace it and claim the costs back via BMW.

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Just now, JasonH said:

Yes the BMW parts warranty is supposed to cover the labour to replace the part as well.

Good, I'm sick of changing it :)

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Just found a new post on the FB 5 series group, a guy has had 2 fail, 2nd within 20 minutes!

Hella by Behr again.

 

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So Hella replied this morning, obviously they are not accepting they have defective parts as I got this, so did the other guy who had phoned just before this scripted response was sent out.

 

Quote

Good Morning Gareth,

 

 

I hope you are well?

 

I have had a reply from my colleagues in Germany that have confirmed my first thoughts.

 

We have no issues with this part in Europe,

 

My only suggestion is that you take the vehicle to a BMW OE Garage to ascertain if there is a fundamental fault elsewhere in the system that may cause this

 

Once we have the parts back from your supplier, we will send these over to our parent company in Germany for a complete test.

 

My personal thought is that there is no issues with the parts but somewhere else on the vehicle

 

Regards

 

Steve

 

 

 

I would like anyone else to check temps as this seems to be a big problem with recent Hella/Behr heat exchangers. If a few more of us find the same they may take note, maybe they already are but they won't admit it!

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I think the EGR opening creates enough flow to push coolant through the gearbox heat exchanger up into the rad, it doesn't take much on a cold day to cool it down. The big pipe #5 is stone cold throughout, this gets hot with the main stat opening as the opens the loop to it, it remains stone cold with a knackered gearbox heat exchanger as the engine never gets hot enough unless you're sat in traffic.

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Was there ever a conclusive decision over which makes of thermostat to avoid and which to buy?

 

I need a new one, and I'm looking at either a Mahle or Gates

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Took mine on a nice long trip today. 100 miles each way, and the temperature finally reached the mid eighties, as it should be...  So, I'm fairly sure my gearbox stat is goosed.

 

I would say I'd change it, but I'm changing the car instead. Just never really 'felt' the feeling in the E61, so it's going. On to an X5 instead. 

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Well I am waiting for Sytners to phone me regarding my warranty claim on the part I fitted. I supplied BMW receipts for both thermostats and the heat exchanger, asked to speak to a mechanic this morning when I dropped the car off as I am not keen passing details from one person to the next, backed up by the inability for them to write the words "gearbox heat exchanger" replacing it with "gearbox heater" so well done for not listening when I booked in along with writing down my phone number as 77 when I always say triple 7???

I tried to explain to who I assume was a mechanic, (bit clean for a mechanic mind you!) but he couldn't have given less of a fuck if he tried. I explained the overcooling issue, explained it had new thermostats that didn't resolve it until my mechanic (yeah the mechanic bits BS as I did all the work) found the thermostat in the heat exchanger was stuck open. I didn't bother to say it has had 3 from Hella 1st as they would no doubt dismiss me on the spot, I also explained the new part failed within days of being fitted and how it was diagnosed, ie clamping pipes, pulling one and releasing the other to let coolant flow through the thermostat that should be closed. All the cock did was say clamping isn't the right way to diagnose it, I didn't rise to it and ask for a better way to do it considering they are incapable of doing anything not written in a fucking book, and that fucking book doesn't have anything related to it at all!

 

We will see, still no phone call but I expect nothing will be done and I will be told letting it sit idle in a workshop got it to temp eventually before being presented with a £150 car wash invoice I will be refusing to pay!

 

:angry:

 

 

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OMFG, what a bunch of idiots work there, needless to say I got a phone call at 4:30 saying I could collect it as they had done tests and found nothing wrong. Once I got in I asked for the mechanic to come out to see me, he started saying they had tested it, I stopped him and asked how, his reply, the way BMW tell us to test it, I ask again a little louder and firmer, how, explain how?

He says they run it for a while, I ask where he says the workshop and continues on his speech about they run it and once the temp levels out they clamp off one of the coolant lines to the heat exchanger as it is a common problem (YES A COMMON PROBLEM)

I stop him and ask why he told me I was wrong to test it like that but ok for them to clamp off a pipe, he has no answer. He continues to tell me with it clamped the temp went up one degree, I stop him again and ask what they did to replicate what a car does in its natural environment, he looked confused so I simply said "driving it against the oncoming wind that will in turn hit the radiator thus cooling what is inside if it is hotter than the incoming air"

 

I think by this time he could see he was out of his depth :rolleyes:

 

He replied that they did nothing to cool the radiator, I then ask how the hell can they call this a test if they are doing that in a warm workshop with no air to cool the radiator to replicate the fault conditions as explained by me the customer. Needless to say he again had no answer to address my question instead saying that's how BMW say to do it. So I drop the bomb and say to him he was very quick to dismiss me this morning as having no idea what I am doing along with my "mechanic" and refusing to look at the video I had taken of the fault, I told him he can watch the video now, he did and again fell silent then piped up. "well you can leave the car and we will order in a heat exchanger and compare them by taking yours off the car"

I said that is fine, get me a loan car to get home, they didn't have one so I had to drive it back.

 

I explained as simply as possible, my new one has failed open, a brand new one arrives with the coolant lines shut by the thermostat then asked that he did know how one works and what its purpose is, he said he did and was aware the heat exchanger had one and all they could do now was compare a new one against mine and if indeed mine was failed open they could warranty exchange it.

 

I decided now was the time to say, if you had taken the time to listen to me this morning and watch the video you could have pulled the pipe and seen 1st hand the coolant went straight through, ordered in another and had a working car for me now, instead this has happened.

 

I was not charged the £150 fee, it was said on the phone initially they would not be charging me, good job really.

 

So back again tomorrow for the fucking thing to be removed, I think I had better test it myself with another video in the morning as it only takes 10 minutes start to finish including dropping the undertrays!

 

Absolutely fucking livid.

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Interesting read... "Common problem" :rolleyes:.

 

A painful experience but at least you made some progress, even though you had to work way too hard for it.

 

 

 

 

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Brilliant....but nothing I wouldn't expect from a Main Dealer. In my experience, and not only with BMW but a good few makes, the "technicians" in Main Dealers rarely have any common sense or real-world practical experience.

 

In one Main Dealer (not BMW) I had to go into their stock room and show them how to check a car battery they were supplying was fresh enough to be any good....they had loads of duff ones they would have been happy to sell! They'd already supplied me two under 11V that were "brand new".

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53 minutes ago, GoNz0 said:

I was not charged the £150 fee, it was said on the phone initially they would not be charging me, good job really.

 

Because he knew you would have bit his head off!!! :D 

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Just been out now the roads are quiet to see if it really was fine, hit 76 on the bypass doing 70 with an already warm engine!

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Incredible.   Years ago, a real mechanic would be able to think for himself and diagnose a fault.  Nowadays, they can only plug a computer in or follow a book. 

 

Really hope you get this sorted, but somehow, I think it's going to be a long, painful process.

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8 hours ago, DaveR said:

Incredible.   Years ago, a real mechanic would be able to think for himself and diagnose a fault.  Nowadays, they can only plug a computer in or follow a book. 

 

Really hope you get this sorted, but somehow, I think it's going to be a long, painful process.

It's already a long painful process, one flipping part!

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I'm just entering a similar dealer issue with our caravan....I know exactly what the problem is and how they need to fix it. They just can't listen, spoken to two "service advisers" now and they just don't register what I'm telling them. It's exactly like the Farside cartoon "What we say to dogs" - best to Google it - the image is copyrighted. 

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Arrived at the dealers this morning to be told they were going ahead with the swap anyway, no compare and test off the car, I checked they were using new o-rings and apparently they were on the order and I shall be checking they topped up the gearbox as well when I fetch it.

 

Seems I may have gotten my point across. I just hope this one works!

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New one lasted 2 hours again, had a steady drive, temps around 86-88 engine side,  gearbox stayed 40 ish. Coming back home I stuck the boot down for 300 yards up a hill and that was it, dropped to 70 over the next 2 miles meaning the fuckers stuck open again. I just don't know where to go from here?

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