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535i Andrew

Engaging N, shift out of P without engine

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Was out towing the trailer this morning and got back into my driveway. Parked up to unhitch trailer to put it away. I then go to move the car back fully into my driveway by 4 feet, as it's downhill I think I'll just roll it backwards, save the planet and all that.

 

I couldn't shift out of p regardless of foot on brake and moving gear lever, tried with ignition on and off but the only way was to turn engine on.

 

Is there a way to just engage N without having to start the engine?

 

I'm guessing this is essentially the emergency procedure in the event of a break down....which may be in the handbook which I've not checked. Yes I know rtfm!

Edited by 535i Andrew

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I believe that you cannot put in N without the engine being on, in an emergency / break down the only way to unlock the gearbox is to get under the car and turn a bolt, never done it myself but found out the hard way one evening and had to call BMW to come and unlock it.

 

check this video 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Charlis535d said:

I believe that you cannot put in N without the engine being on, in an emergency / break down the only way to unlock the gearbox is to get under the car and turn a bolt, never done it myself but found out the hard way one evening and had to call BMW to come and unlock it.

 

check this video 

 

 

 

KWIK FIT - right?

 

 

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As said above there is no release mechanism, I have used the bolt release a couple of time but it's a PIA!

On some models, if the car will crank over, whilst it's cranking you can select neutral but it only stays selected fo 30mis so DON'T flat tow it.

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Thanks guys.

 

So going back to an emergency situation, I cannot see the AA or BMW Emergency Assist jacking up a car or The Police letting them do this in the middle lane of a motorway if you suffer a complete failure. You would get your car dragged to the hard shoulder and have to deal with it.

 

In older boxes the park mechanisim, is just that, a mechanical lock like your socket set ratchet that is applied to a sprag  wheel in the rear of the gearbox. It shouldn't need hydraulic pressure to release, only a mechanical linkage. But in these boxes mechanical linkages are replaced with copper wire, motors and micro switches which obviously need electrical power to operate but you could have thought that a 12v supply to move an actuators isn't difficult, it would be easier for it to be electrically operated than hydraulic so no need for the engine to run.

 

 

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If the parking gear release is actuated this way, can the car then be towed normally or is a flat bed truck still required?

 

Anybody know the answer please?

 

Peter

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On 30/11/2017 at 10:22 PM, HiUp said:

If the parking gear release is actuated this way, can the car then be towed normally or is a flat bed truck still required?

 

Anybody know the answer please?

 

Peter

 

Never tow an automatic vehicle with its wheels on the ground - even if in neutral as you will damage the gearbox. Always have it up on a flat bed truck if it must be moved by anything other than under its own steam. With a manual car in neutral the gearbox is no longer connected to the final drive of the engine. With an automatic this is not the case and the torque converter is permanently connected to engine and transmission and the axle and propshaft is still turning the innards of the transmission.

 

Why are you so worried about towing the car? Has it broken down? 

Edited by Matthew Ashton

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9 hours ago, Matthew Ashton said:

With an automatic this is not the case and the torque converter is permanently connected to engine and transmission.

 

You can tow an automatic car in N if you can physically get it into N. Agree with Matthew that I would want mine lifted.  

 

But....in theory.....when towed with the wheels on the ground....

 

Yes stuff will still spin inside the box but no torque will be transmitted from the prop to anything other than the output shaft of the box and what is splined to it  but as no gear trains are connected together as there is no hydraulic pressure there is no torque going round anything else. The TC turbine is connected to the boxes input shaft which sits over the output shaft (but is not directly connected to it) and is only connected to the output shaft when there is hydraulic pressure form the pump applying force to the clutches or brake bands to engage a gear. Yes there will be a bit of drag but nothing major.  With no engine running there is no pump running with no pump running there is no hydraulic pressure to engage a gear. Which is why stop start autos were later to be developed. The oil pump is on the input shaft of the auto box so always spins if the engine is running.

 

It's the fact that the oil pump is not running without the engine so no oil gets between the parts that are turning to keep them cool and lubricated, that's what will damage an autobox if it's towed with the wheels on the ground too far and too fast.

 

Older autos were good for 30 miles at 30 mph being towed. After that you would need to let the mechanicals of the box cool. My Senator handbook said it was good for 30 @ 30.  I was towed off the M1 to a place of safety without issue to the box. 

 

Enough to get you off the hard shoulder to somewhere safe to get you loaded onto a flat bed is fine. But BMW won't let you do this and your car will 

 

8 hours ago, sshooie said:

winch it and if your lucky they may even use skids. 

 

Just pray that the road is wet to allow your tyres a little less friction on the road surface to prevent something else being damaged. All they will do as sshooie says is heave it harder if it doesn't move.

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On 12/11/2017 at 1:10 PM, 535i Andrew said:

Was out towing the trailer this morning and got back into my driveway. Parked up to unhitch trailer to put it away. I then go to move the car back fully into my driveway by 4 feet, as it's downhill I think I'll just roll it backwards, save the planet and all that.

 

I couldn't shift out of p regardless of foot on brake and moving gear lever, tried with ignition on and off but the only way was to turn engine on.

 

Is there a way to just engage N without having to start the engine?

 

I'm guessing this is essentially the emergency procedure in the event of a break down....which may be in the handbook which I've not checked. Yes I know rtfm!

 

Make sure your gearbox in on N before breaking down or is it going to be a challenge to pull the car on the tow truck !

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53 minutes ago, reggie59 said:

 

Make sure your gearbox in on N before breaking down or is it going to be a challenge to pull the car on the tow truck !

 

 

its not, they can pull vehicles without any wheels on them, or upside down vehicles.

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53 minutes ago, welshpug said:

 

 

its not, they can pull vehicles without any wheels on them, or upside down vehicles.

 

Indeed they can, they just might not be road worthy afterwards. Especially if the latter happens! 

 

All they will do it pull harder or get a bigger truck.

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Mathew

quote: Why are you so worried about towing the car? Has it broken down? 

 

No - but I want to be 'able' if it does happen. (Why carry a puncture repair kit if you don't have a puncture?).

 

It's also a safety thing. If I can get my car in neutral when I need to, It can be pushed to safety or pulled on to a flat bed truck.

 

This all started for me when I noticed the tool missing in my first aid/emergency tool box. I bought the tool and then wanted to find out how to use it. You know the story from there and now I cant leave it alone until I sort an easier method

of achieving neutral. Maybe I will make a new access panel in the transmission shield to allow me to reach and screw in the actuator bolt. That's better than taking off the under body panels don't you think?

 

Peter

 

Edited by HiUp
correction

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I do think this is a little over the top and is very different from making sure you have a puncture repair kit after you ditch runflat tyres. There are hundreds of thousands of the Fxx cars out there on the global road network and the issue of getting it into neutral IF there is a total failure and you can’t start the car and you need to move it is just not something that has come up as an issue. People want to know what the procedure is, they learn, they store the knowledge away and get on and enjoy the car. Which is exactly what I do. But of course each to their own and if making a hole in the under tray to access the bolt will give you peace of mind, go for it. 

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There is a procedure that puts trans into neutral for 15 minutes apparently. Do a search on Google. Something like start button and push gearstick to neutral two tines then a third time but hold for 5 seconds and you get a bong (no not that kind!) and hey presto you can drag all you like..

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38 minutes ago, bmwmike said:

 you get a bong (no not that kind!) and hey presto you can drag all you like..

So you're saying you get stoned and your F10/11 provides the equipment....

right im off to get a boring car that blends in with the rest of them....

;) 

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1 hour ago, bmwmike said:

There is a procedure that puts trans into neutral for 15 minutes apparently. Do a search on Google. Something like start button and push gearstick to neutral two tines then a third time but hold for 5 seconds and you get a bong (no not that kind!) and hey presto you can drag all you like..

 

The gearbox needs hydraulics to swap from one mode to another so not sure how that would work if the engine is not running. The document I attached is the only mention in BMWs literature for getting the car into neutral when all systems have failed. 

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