Jump to content
jag530isport

BMW E39 M5 Rod Bearing & Chain Guides

Recommended Posts

Hi guys

 

I'm thinking about getting my Rod Bearings, Chain Guides done on my m5. The car itself has done 86k and I have no issues whatsoever just looking at getting them done more for preventative measure.

 

I spoke to Phil at CPC and he was saying that the cost of the work is roughly just over £3k and we will also look over the vanos while he was there even though I have no vanos issues.

 

Is there anything else I should be getting done while this work is being carried out and for the people that have had this work done did you have any issues afterwards?

 

Thanks

Jag

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Edited by jag530isport

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good call

Did mine last summer (not at cpc) and included to your list.  Chains (main, timing and oil), Guides (all inc oil and timing), Tensioners (vanos and main chain)

I'd get vanos rebuilt with actuator seals and the vanos diaphragm springs taken care of too, whilst you're in there.

 

Hakon

Edited by Hakon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bear in mind that it is only a tiny percentage of cars that have had big end failures. £3k is a lot to spend 'just in case'. If you have bits of chain tensioner in your sump or the slightest knock then I'd go ahead but a relatively low mileage car with no issues? I'm not sure I'd be going down that route. Have you addressed all the other E39 problem areas? Suspension bushes/springs/dampers, rust etc? £3k goes a fair way towards sorting out those problems. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, kobayashi said:

Bear in mind that it is only a tiny percentage of cars that have had big end failures. £3k is a lot to spend 'just in case'. If you have bits of chain tensioner in your sump or the slightest knock then I'd go ahead but a relatively low mileage car with no issues? I'm not sure I'd be going down that route. Have you addressed all the other E39 problem areas? Suspension bushes/springs/dampers, rust etc? £3k goes a fair way towards sorting out those problems. 

Absolutely spot on. There is a lot of scaremongering on this subject. That's not to say that guides don't break up and rod bearings wont fail eventually but at that mileage I'm not sure I would be lobbing £3k at something which is unlikely be worn unless you have some evidence to the contrary. Just for a bit of context, earlier in the year I had my car in at Darren Wood who ran a vanos test which it failed on bank one and I was advised to rebuild the vanos at £1700. I did some research and replaced the CPS's which sorted the issues for a faction of the cost. The car has since produced some very strong numbers of the dyno and runs like a dream.  Jamie Peers thread on here is worth a read, he did his bearings/guides etc at around 140k miles and they were spot on.

 

Worth sending a sample of the oil for analysis if you are concerned and go from there before pulling the motor and spending a fortune.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Haha, that was assuming all suspension parts had already having been taken care of.

 

Borescope through the oil filler cap can take a look at some of the main guide but I'd certainly get a new main tensioner in, as they slacken and it takes less than 20 minutes.

My guides were replaced at 68k as they were found to have broken tabs  and although not unduly worn, the missing tabs is a potential problem especially with a slack chain.

I had big end bearings actually fail at 32K, thankfully with minimal damage to the crank. Had they not, I'd have probably had them done with the guides at 68k

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If no knocks or 'funny-noises-not-quite-like-a-knock' then an engine oil analysis (£30) with every oil change will be as good a diagnostic for rod bearing issues as anything. I wouldn't be spending big money on what may well be a sound bottom end.

 

Borescope inspection of the chain guides from down the oil filler: sounds like a good plan! Agree that the main chain tensioner is a cheap and quick DIY that's definitely worth doing

 

How noisy are your VANOS units? If quiet - and not already done - then just replace the 'O' rings on the solenoids, clean up and check for dry solder joints. (If your solenoid 'O' rings are on the way out you'll notice oil weeps/leaks from the front covers.)

 

You could be unlucky and have multiple problems with rod bearing/chain guides/VANOS at low mileage but remember most won't have these issues. There's several E39 M5s running around in the US with 250k+ miles which have experienced none of the above issues and the cars have had nothing but regular though careful servicing.

 

Everyone has their own theory about why the S62 engine can experience these problems. My two cents is that some cars during their lives will have been mercilessly ragged when cold, or thrashed to the red line with every gear change when hot, or not been serviced correctly. The nightmare scenario is a toxic combination of all of these. The car is then passed on to a careful owner who picks up the tab for all the early abuse. Tell me I'm wrong!

(I have to say that rod bearing knock at 32k miles is really unlucky though!)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Considering the timing chain guides and rod bearing are the only real documented killers of an S62, I'd change them out proactively IF the car is a keeper.

 

If its not a keeper then forget it, but make sure neither fail within your tenure, at which point the £3K will start looking like a very low insurance premium that you didn't pay.

 

If you buy a used replacement S62 in the event your original one failed, then you'd be doing the rod bearings and timing chain guides on the replacement engine in any event anyway, I'd assume.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks guys I've been thinking about this for a while to be honest. The car is a keeper I won't be getting rid of it so I'm thinking that it's probably easier to spend the £3k now and at least I'll have the piece of mind that it's done.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've recently rebuilt (timing only) a M62 (2001) with 80k on the clock for the very same reasons. Did it myself and cost around £1200 in parts (and i get 35% discount on genuine parts). My opinion? waste of £1200. there was nothing wrong with any of it at all. Wish id kept some stuff so i could post pics.

 

You need to think about the production numbers here as well. How many really have failed? How was they looked after? I change my oil every 5k miles regardless. Will i be safe? not sure. What i am sure about tho is how much money do i want to spend on my £10k car..........always makes me laugh now because everyone i so focused on prices based on miles. I've spent fucking thousands on mine. It's getting like triggers broom...............

 

I'm concerned for my gearbox at the moment.........will i spend £6.5k on a new one? ain't gonna happen. 

 

If your car is staying forever then go for it. strip it down and rebuild the lot. I love mine, but i don't love it enough to dump all that cash on it. At least not against what i've already spent............................:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had my rod bearings changed at around 125k as part of my Evolve tuning and they were well worn. The vanos is still silent even at 150k so I doubt I will mess with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 08/09/2017 at 11:29 AM, kobayashi said:

Bear in mind that it is only a tiny percentage of cars that have had big end failures. £3k is a lot to spend 'just in case'. If you have bits of chain tensioner in your sump or the slightest knock then I'd go ahead but a relatively low mileage car with no issues? I'm not sure I'd be going down that route. Have you addressed all the other E39 problem areas? Suspension bushes/springs/dampers, rust etc? £3k goes a fair way towards sorting out those problems. 

^^^^This

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I did rod bearings and vans seals, springs at 75000

mine looked like new and vanos has always been quiet

from memory parts were £400 to 500, labour around a 1000

im not planning to do chain guides and tensioners and a few other bits when i fit ported heads, 

it probably is over kill

well love cars don’t usually go wrong in a big way TBH

obsession can be a dangerous thing!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mine went at 48k and Phil replaced them and I was lucky there was no further damage.

 

I am on the fence for the e61 as I have Extended warranty with wear and tear, so not sure whether or not to spend the money in the future or wait and see what happens. I wouldn't want the warranty company to refuse a claim on it if they did fail.

 

If I were keeping the car I would do the rod bearings as would want to be safe.

 

cheers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×