jinsta

E60 530D...Pre 2K lag, any ideas?

18 posts in this topic

Trying to track down an issue with boost I guess on my 530d

If I drive slowly, it’s hardly noticeable…so allowing a more progressive acceleration…but I do like to plant it allot and really shouldn’t have a blip in power like this. Just feels laggy pre 2k revs and then pulls like train throughout rest of range…evident on upshift till it peaks over 2k again too

 

It’s a pre-lci so don’t have a turbo pressure converter, has an electronic turbo actuator and that’s now new (old one was tested and ok too) – already done following:

  • swirl flap/egr/egr cooler, cat/dpf/backbox deleted
  • Crank case breather/map sensor, vac pressure convertor, ic pipework seals, vac lines...all been replaced
  • air filter ok
  • No faults on diagnostics
  • New turbo/actuator
  • aftermarket bigger intercooler
  • oil pressure ok
  • compression check done and ok
  • injectors tested/refurbished whilst out/new seals fitted

 

Replaced MAF with Bosch one two years back , but I’ve spotted is whilst have lag pre 2k now…unplugging it reduces the issue to 1.5k when removed

I’ve had issue for a while and doesn’t get worse or anything…but bugging the hell out of me. If you have a manual car and clutch going…it’s that same delayed feeling of acceleration…saying that, it’s an auto box…they still have a clutch of sort, could this be effed? I don’t think its torque convertor as its nice through gears and have null fluctuating or anything

 

Any ideas?

Edited by jinsta
updated

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Have you changed the diesel filter? My 520 was feeling gutless but through the whole rev range and changing the diesel filter bought the performance back.

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1 hour ago, Mrhappy said:

Have you changed the diesel filter? My 520 was feeling gutless but through the whole rev range and changing the diesel filter bought the performance back.

 

Fuel filter was changed within last 12mths :(

 

Also done.

  • Inlet manifold, zorst manifold gaskets
  • cat decat downpipe with new temp/main o2 sensors
  • all zorst gaskets

Few jobs being done on weekend, but not sure will help

  • Oil was last done in april when new turbo fitted, but i'm flushing again over the weekend (waste i know, but its cheaper stuff then i would norm use)
  • new egr boost elbow hose being fitted as popped off recently (I've clamped back on for now and no leak, but hose has had it really)
  • boost pipe coolant temp sensor will be changed too (no idea why i have not done that one before really, but want to cross that off)

Really cant think of what else i have not tried

 

 

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Do these cars use a variable geometry turbo? I don't know myself.

 

But if the vanes are stuck in the high rpm position it will cause the turbo to spool later and slower.

Edited by Mojo Jojo

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51 minutes ago, Mojo Jojo said:

Do these cars use a variable geometry turbo? I don't know myself.

 

But if the vanes are stuck in the high rpm position it will cause the turbo to spool later and slower.

Yes they do. I know my LCi is electronic. Not sure if Pre-LCi is Electronic or vacuum operated through a solenoid type regulating valve.

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So did oil and new egr elbow/top boost hose.

 

I think my old seal was due a change as the difference in force requied to push new elbow and seal in was quite allot, this new tighter seal has made a small improvement but overall issues still present.

 

The temp sensor i got didnt fit although used pn via real oem, mines a older style twist one so will get another. old one looked ok mind. 

 

The turbo on this one has a electronic actuator so no vac line in and is new (turbos a fresh garrett unit, 3mths old) and is moving as it should. no adjustments on these so are just plug and play

 

Pres do have a presure control module for vac lines postioned rear of inlet...but this has been changed too

 

Torque Convertor - tbh i have thought about that but dont seem to have any of the usual symptoms. no bouncy revs or sloppy gear changing....is there any specific tests i can do/have done to rule this in/out? i have had gearbox sump and oil renewed in ownership too btw. Above torque converter, is there still a clutch plate of sort in these?

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I'd be checking for exhaust manifold leaks. Any smell of exhaust under the bonnet or through the vents into the car. Any signs of soot around the exhaust manifold.

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On 8/11/2017 at 2:29 PM, jinsta said:
  • swirl flap/egr/egr cooler, cat/dpf/backbox deleted
  • .......
  • aftermarket bigger intercooler


Tempted to say, the latter may cause the issue and the former may exacerbate it. 

 

Is the cooler a reputable brand? I've seen cheap copy part intercoolers arrive with holes in them due to really bad welds as well as not being able to flow anywhere near as well as a well regarded brand. 

 

The issue sounds like classic boost leak tbh. Have you pressure tested it the pipework? 

Edited by tej
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1 hour ago, tej said:


Tempted to say, the latter may cause the issue and the former may exacerbate it. 

 

Is the cooler a reputable brand? I've seen cheap copy part intercoolers arrive with holes in them due to really bad welds as well as not being able to flow anywhere near as well as a well regarded brand. 

 

The issue sounds like classic boost leak tbh. Have you pressure tested it the pipework?

 

Think swirlflaps can be ruled out as any intitial lag they caused kinda dissapeared after first remap and it has run loads better then what its like now with them fitted - prob with mods, I do wonder if any have loosenened or are creating a leak...but had inlet off 3mths back and all were secure. Originally siliconed them in alongside the screws that hold them...so think they are still all good :ph34r:

 

Intercooler is a bigger forge racing unit (originally designed for a F20/135i as no e60 options back then) and has no evident leaks...i've air pressure tested this and was solid. The IC boost pipes use the oem fixtures on engine side, but on the intercooler end...oem hoses were replaced for ash silicone hoses that go into billet F20 couplings (then can use oem f20 seal and ic clips. removal process remains unchanged)...all pipework has had oem seals replaced, silicone paste at joints, decent jubeli clips etc....the only one that showed wear was the egr hose and changed this for new one over the weekend :( 

 

I cant easily reverse now to test, but have had this setup quite a few years now and whilst bigger IC deffo introduced some lag when fitted it, but was kinda still a progressive boost curve (albeit slower start :lol:) that just got stronger....the 'lag' i have now feels like a little flat blip in acceleration.

 

Just ordered new Bosch MAF to rule that out as just out of warranty on existing one (efffing July) - this cars a money pit :angry:

 

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16 hours ago, JasonH said:

I'd be checking for exhaust manifold leaks. Any smell of exhaust under the bonnet or through the vents into the car. Any signs of soot around the exhaust manifold.

 

Had a cracked mani in past so was flipped to cast jobby few years back. When i changed turbo (3-4mths back), fitted new oem gaskets for block and for the egr cooler blank. No fumes in the cabin and bay has no signs of soot etc like when my original cracked. The lack of dpf/cat/silencer does make the zorst fumes quite smelly, even when running on the spot...smell whiffs to front, but not noticible on the go and isnt leaking via zorst system

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As it seems you've covered most things are there any fault codes to provide a clue? 

 

Perhaps it could be the torque converter or pehaps a temperature sensor. It sounds like the car behaves as if the engine is cold, below 35C I think. It doesn't lock up the torque converter and holds a lower gear.

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2 hours ago, JasonH said:

As it seems you've covered most things are there any fault codes to provide a clue? 

 

Perhaps it could be the torque converter or pehaps a temperature sensor. It sounds like the car behaves as if the engine is cold, below 35C I think. It doesn't lock up the torque converter and holds a lower gear.

 

Kind of one of the problems...no engine fault codes present. It was the same last time my MAF went, no codes as such but evident not working (If left unplugged, triggers eng mangt light and codes mind)

 

Could be temp related as notticed it feels touch more bogged down on warmer days :unsure: I've ordered another boost pipe temp sensor as the one i received was wrong type, will see if that makes any difference

 

The only other temp sensor i have not changed is the second 02 temp one found on box 2 of zorst system (with box 1 being CAT downpipe where 02 main and 02 temp sensors are new) - this has not flagged any errors or anything mind? are these pront to fail too? (only replaced other two as fitted new downpipe so added new sensors)

 

Does torque converter offer error codes at all? Not sure how i can test it :(

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A slipping torque converter doesn't give any fault codes.

 

A sort of test would be to let the car warm up then cruise at 40mph. Then play with the accelerator a bit. With a warm engine and at that speed the TC should be locked. The engine should feel directly connected to the wheels, i.e. more like a manual than an auto (unless you provoke a gear change).

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Sorry for delay! Ok so tried the 40mph test with maf plugged in. failed, does same thing....with maf disconnected, kicks in at 1500 opposed to 2k revs, pulls better, but still have the blip

 

Maf plugged in, tried unplugging map sensor..immedietely idled worse. plugged in map....instantly reverting back to running ok - not gonna mess with and conclude map sensors ok (its fairly new anyway)

 

Bit depressed with all this, but new bosch maf and hella boost pipe temp sensor arrived yesterday :rolleyes:

 

I should have fitted one and at a time really but swapped both and its deffo improoved things. bit of 'lag' i guess is still present, but so far no more blip of nothing happening occuring...its just progressive delivery. It does pull harder too, but i'm little bit dubius this may just be the maf adjusting itself :ph34r::P

 

Previously i've used a launch diogostics unit to reset the maf adaptations...but cant get this anymore, so is there any way to do on inpa or similar. By not resetting it....will it just sort itself out? how long does this take

 

Will put some miles on and see if stays the same...

 

Got my sceondary zorst temp sensor today too, so will try get that in too. Kinda covers mostly everything being tried :lol::lol::lol:

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The DDE creates a "correction factor" to add to the MAF value it gets. You reset it to zero with DIS V57 or ISTA and probably INPA (I can't remember). How long it takes to adapt depends on how far the old one was out, I guess a few hundred miles should sort it out but that's a guess.

 

I think the boost pipe temperature sender was the culprit if it is now really fixed. Could try temporarily fitting the old one and seeing if the problem comes back to be sure.

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