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RyanBuck

Glow plug broken in engine!!

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Hi guys, had a nightmare here.

 

One of my glow plugs has broken in the engine and looks like thread damage to the cylinder head.

 

I have been trying lots of things for 2 days now and it's now st the point where I think the head will have to come off!!

 

Where will I find specs like a Bentley manuel that will give me processes, timing the engine up and torque settings etc 

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13 minutes ago, IanS100 said:

Threads can be repaired in situ by using a Helicoil so, before you start stripping it down, I would speak to a garage with engineering abilities.

Hi, I fully understand this but due to the limited access to the cylinder port with the head in place I would not be able to extract all of the metal filings.

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Ok guys another day having a look at this issue and no joy.

 

The glow plug is snapped far down in to the port and the threads are damaged.

 

My only way would be to drill out but I have no way to stop the shot from falling into the cylinder causing damaged to the bore in time.

 

I had got another tec round to have a little look and he had also confirmed sometimes you can drill tap but this one looks beyond this, really not having a lot of joy here.

 

I think I am left with no choose but to remove the cylinder head and get the head sent away.

 

I had a look online TIS but I can't see if the engine needs to come out for the head removal or if it can be done in place?

 

The reason I ask is all the timing chain and gears are at the back against the fire wall which I can't see any access to setup timing etc etc?

 

Any info guys?

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I can't offer any help but my sympathies. Dropped a timing case bolt into the front chain of my m30 once. How unfunny did I find that

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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26 minutes ago, duncan-uk said:

I can't offer any help but my sympathies. Dropped a timing case bolt into the front chain of my m30 once. How unfunny did I find that emoji51.png

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ouch, bet a few swear words went flying lol

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Do you know what I didn't. I just shut the bonnet and went inside and gave the nipper a cuddle. Poured a large glass of wine and stewed on it.

 

Next day it transpires sump off the engine situ is a pita due to the pump.

 

Took a day to get to where I was the height before!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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6 minutes ago, duncan-uk said:

Do you know what I didn't. I just shut the bonnet and went inside and gave the nipper a cuddle. Poured a large glass of wine and stewed on it.

 

Next day it transpires sump off the engine situ is a pita due to the pump.

 

Took a day to get to where I was the height before!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Very true mate, little ones do make things so much better.

 

I have to admit my engine has only covered about 70k and I can't believe the black carbon build up on the intake and inlet ports!!

 

 

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I've read numerous posts and articles over the years about glow plugs and injectors being really difficult to remove as they often snap off. There are specialists with tools developed specifically for the job so it may be a good start to research and find one of these specialists to come and do the job, if possible, wherever the car is now. 

 

ISTA/D will give you all of the information you need for your specific model on how to remove the head. Update - Looking at ISTA, the engine does not need to come out.

 

I know this isn't the most helpful post but hopefully gives you a direction to focus your efforts. 

Edited by Matthew Ashton

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Ryan

 

You have my sympathy too.  I sheared a caliper cradle bolt on my Senator and ended up with loads of new running gear, a steering knuckle, wheel bearing and hub and a new lower arm......

 

I would do what Duncan advises.  Stop, sleep on it.

 

Then do what Matthew and Ian have suggested.  Get a proper engineering workshop to look at it as there are tools out there in the market place to get places out of situations like that but it would need a good level of skill to make sure it was cock on.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But as you sound confident in your own abilities...

 

There are two timing chains but as the drive from the crank to the inlet cam is split into two chains (i think via the fuel pump drive) so you only actually have one chain going to the camshafts as the outlet camshaft is simply gear driven from the inlet cam.  So (he says in theory) might not be as bad as you think to get the timing back on.  The two camshafts will only go together correctly in one orientation so less to get wrong.  You would only need to get the timing correct between the inlet camshaft drive sprocket and the upper chain.  But I've never split an engine before sadly so am not speaking from experience just from reading..... 

 

 

 

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Can the broken plug not be left inside? and fit new plugs on other cylinders? or is it too stripped that the end could potentially break off with the engines compression.

 

just an option that could keep the car running until you figure out a good way to resolve it.

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1 hour ago, Matthew Ashton said:

 

Makes it look easy. :o.......once you have removed a power of things first and of course there is the infamous "engine removed for clarity" so you can see where all the bolts are.

 

But if you are handy with the appropriate spanners (and have them in your possession), and swallowed a brave pill, you could do it yourself.

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25 minutes ago, 535i Andrew said:

 

Makes it look easy. :o.......once you have removed a power of things first and of course there is the infamous "engine removed for clarity" so you can see where all the bolts are.

 

But if you are handy with the appropriate spanners (and have them in your possession), and swallowed a brave pill, you could do it yourself.

 

And have the special tools required! I wouldn't undertake this even though I have quite an array of tools.

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3 hours ago, 535i Andrew said:

Ryan

 

You have my sympathy too.  I sheared a caliper cradle bolt on my Senator and ended up with loads of new running gear, a steering knuckle, wheel bearing and hub and a new lower arm......

 

I would do what Duncan advises.  Stop, sleep on it.

 

Then do what Matthew and Ian have suggested.  Get a proper engineering workshop to look at it as there are tools out there in the market place to get places out of situations like that but it would need a good level of skill to make sure it was cock on.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But as you sound confident in your own abilities...

 

There are two timing chains but as the drive from the crank to the inlet cam is split into two chains (i think via the fuel pump drive) so you only actually have one chain going to the camshafts as the outlet camshaft is simply gear driven from the inlet cam.  So (he says in theory) might not be as bad as you think to get the timing back on.  The two camshafts will only go together correctly in one orientation so less to get wrong.  You would only need to get the timing correct between the inlet camshaft drive sprocket and the upper chain.  But I've never split an engine before sadly so am not speaking from experience just from reading..... 

 

 

 

Hi Andrew, yes I had a little look last night on the TIS and I can see it's a dual chain so long as the bottom end is locked off at TDCI then the injector pump will also stay locked.

 

I have to admit I am a level 3 Tec so none of this should phase me but it's just different when it's your own car.

 

I have to admit the car did go for a remap on Saturday and the drive back was so much fun with even more power lol, the only issue I had was around a 25bhp loss from factory, they done a text and the engine is good but did state could be a little gummed up and the DPF is full with no regen, they did state this would be your slight loss, now because only 2 of my glow plugs are working with a faulty module the car would not allow the regen  to happen this could also be a good time to de coke the engine and programme the EGR  out.

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3 hours ago, IINexusII said:

Can the broken plug not be left inside? and fit new plugs on other cylinders? or is it too stripped that the end could potentially break off with the engines compression.

 

just an option that could keep the car running until you figure out a good way to resolve it.

Hi, to be fair I do have another car so even though it is a pain I do have some time on my side.

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23 minutes ago, Matthew Ashton said:

 

And have the special tools required! I wouldn't undertake this even though I have quite an array of tools.

You will be surprised that you only need a few tools:

 

Tool to turn crank

Tool to lock flywheel in TDCI 

Tool to double check cams in place before you torque up.

 

Again you only disturbe the cam timing and nothing else.

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1 hour ago, Matthew Ashton said:

 

And have the special tools required! I wouldn't undertake this even though I have quite an array of tools.

 

On your car or someone elses?

 

I would give it a bash but I wouldn't want to do for the first time on a 300+bhp 6 pot diesel engine. Mibbie a Ford engine from the 1980s......

 

 

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1 hour ago, 535i Andrew said:

 

On your car or someone elses?

 

I would give it a bash but I wouldn't want to do for the first time on a 300+bhp 6 pot diesel engine. Mibbie a Ford engine from the 1980s......

 

 

 

Some things I would leave to specialists. Knowing what I've read about injectors and glow plugs those definitely fall into the specialist category.

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On 09/07/2017 at 0:31 PM, RyanBuck said:

Hi guys, had a nightmare here.

 

One of my glow plugs has broken in the engine and looks like thread damage to the cylinder head.

 

I have been trying lots of things for 2 days now and it's now st the point where I think the head will have to come off!!

 

Where will I find specs like a Bentley manuel that will give me processes, timing the engine up and torque settings etc 

 

Whilst my comments wont assist you getting the broken plug out it may help others if they ever need to remove any glow plugs

 

Was you removing the glow plug when it sheared of the reason I mention this a few months ago I had two faulty glow plugs on our mini cooper, and after reading horror stories of glow plugs shearing off when trying to remove them, I then found a article online that recommended that you first spray penetrating fluid in the recess of each plug then drive the vehicle for four or five days topping up the fluid if needed during that time, apparently the glow plugs  should come out easy without shearing off, and only attempt to undo them with the engine still hot.

 

Well me being worried off shearing them off I thought I will try this method using WD40 penetrating fluid for four days I also purchased a precision very low reading torque wrench and a proper glow plug socket along with special pliers for removing the plastic glow plug caps as I had already partly broke one plastic cap try to remove cap with long nose pliers,  anyway on the fourth day with the engine still hot I removed all the caps easy with the right tool, then set the torque wrench to well below the shear off point given in the technical data for the glow plug, and as recommended I replaced all four, and every one come out easy almost as if they was only finger tight, I then screwed each new plug in by hand first making sure they dont cross thread, I then set the torque wrench to the correct torque for the final tightening,  Note its not recommended by Buru the plug manufacturers. to put anything on the threads of plugs before inserting them as this can make the torque wrench overtighten and possibly shear off.

 

What I learned myself yes its expensive purchasing the special tools required whichpossibly  may not ever get used again, but its still way cheaper diy than a stealer dealer doing the job,

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