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Diesel car values.

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Yet again it seems the government is over reacting and telling us diesel vehicles are murdering thousands of people every year! I wonder if this is a scam so they can tell the public hikes in road tax and diesel fuel duty are for their own good.

It's got me wondering what's going to happen to the value of Diesel engined cars. Are owners going to try panic selling and are potential buyers going to be put off buying? Meaning only one thing......a crash in the market value of the said cars?

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Been wondering this myself. The thing that sold diesel engined cars to us was good fuel consumption and less CO2 pollution than those nasty poisonous petrol engines. Now the government is telling us that yes, CO2 is still bad for us and the planet, but not as bad as the NOx being produced by us following their advice.

Figures suggest that engine production in Europe is still around 50/50 petrol/diesel so while the diesel engine ain't dead yet its future doesn't look too rosy.

If the car makers came up with some wizard technology to clean up the diesel's act then maybe it will live on for a bit.

At the moment I don't see the forecourts overflowing with cheap diesel cars so presumably people aren't panic dumping. It could happen, but it's more likely that motorists will just change as their vehicles age and need replacing in conjunction with the tax thumbscrew being slowly tightened.

Dealers will of course use the 'dirty diesel' as a bargaining chip to devalue your trade-in value while happily selling you another diesel!

The future of the IC engine is a whole new topic I guess. Fuel cells still seem WIP, and the infrastructure isn't there yet for a UK-wide switch to electric cars.

I'll be keeping the E60 tractor for the foreseeable future as I can't afford to change on a whim, and the Government 'sweetener' I've heard mention is only £1k-£2k.

 

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The control proposals didn't amount to much. Thing is particulates are killing thousands prematurely every year but wood burners etc are even worse and far less easy to police.

 

 

 

 

Non euro6 diesels might eventually fall in value a touch but the scrappage scheme last time for older cars actually seemed to inflate the value of those cars that qualified.

 

 

 

 

The manufacturers will end up profiting selling replacements for a scrappage scheme, as will the revenue given the £500/yr tax for the first five years.

 

 

 

 

The new road tax rules i think will have more of a positive impact on values of recent cars that are £40k+ from new cost than any potential pollution control measures immediately.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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The scrappage scheme and other measures are only at the 'consultation' stage as part of the governments draft clean air plan, so in theory the value of diesel cars shouldn't change just yet.

 

More importantly and as pointed out earlier, no attempts are being made to reduce the number of wood burning/multi-fuel stoves which are proliferating at an enormous rate as they are considered a 'must have'. We looked into buying one for our new extension, despite living in what is effectively a 'smoke free' zone there were no questions from the shop and no discussions about how these items contribute to pollution. As usual with this and all previous governments the motorist is a soft target!

 

Incidentally does anyone else agree that having clean air zones is about as useful as having a no-pissing section in a swimming pool?

Edited by pauliexjr

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Euro6 diesel cars are already cleaner than petrol equivalents on all levels except Nox, but the Nox is lower than a low thing being low. 

 

 

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37 minutes ago, pauliexjr said:

Incidentally does anyone else agree that having clean air zones is about as useful as having a no-pissing section in a swimming pool?

 

Ha ha, yeah, or quad and dual zone climate control in a car. 

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2 hours ago, pauliexjr said:

 

 

More importantly and as pointed out earlier, no attempts are being made to reduce the number of wood burning/multi-fuel stoves which are proliferating at an enormous rate as they are considered a 'must have'. We looked into buying one for our new extension, despite living in what is effectively a 'smoke free' zone there were no questions from the shop and no discussions about how these items contribute to pollution. As usual with this and all previous governments the motorist is a soft target!

 

 

The shop isn't interested, they want to sell you a lump of steel or iron, as far as the manufacturers, retailers and installers are concerned, they are a tree huggers wet dream as they are "Carbon Neutral" and that is all that matters to them...There are, however much tighter requirements on the emissions of new stoves in order to deal with the particulates that wood burners emit though I guess the bulk of these regs will be achieved by simply wedging open the air control so that the user cannot close it off.

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It's all bullshit! 

I mentioned this in another thread a bit back, but it's just the government getting more cash for what "they" told the public to do! 

I can see a "double" incentive to chop your diesel killing machine in for a fluffy bunny friendly electric shit box that will cost you soooooo much more in the long run! But because the government know most of the population are simple sheep and stupid they will buy these thing in droves! Irregardless if the electrical infrastructure is in place or not! 

Then there will be huge knock on effects and the government will "make" the public buy something else to make them more tax but yet will tell the idiots (sorry I ment general public) that they are saving money....

 

Also going off the no piss zone in a swimming pool analogy, what's the point of the U.K. Cutting back on pollution when the UK emits in 12 months what China emits in a single day! 

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1 hour ago, Yokozuna said:

Also going off the no piss zone in a swimming pool analogy, what's the point of the U.K. Cutting back on pollution when the UK emits in 12 months what China emits in a single day! 

 Lead by example perhaps - every reduction must help - its not just the emissions but presumably less raw material in the first place so saves resources too.

 

If every one took the whats the point stance nothing would get done - many hands make light work etc

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I'm thinking my 2007 Mercedes CLK 320 CDI Sport is going to be worth next to nothing in the next year or so but it's too good an all rounder to let go on the cheap..

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Trees are made of wood or they were when I was a boy!  So why would so-called tree huggers be in favour of burning them?

I'm being facetious of course. Wood burners do produce pollution, I agree and I have one. I haven't done the maths, but consider this. Somewhere in Russia, the Middle East or elsewhere armies of diesel powered machinery is extracting or otherwise obtaining gas or oil for us. It is then shipped (more diesel) or piped across to us where it is transported again (more diesel) before we use it in the form of gas or oil for cooking and heating - so a bit more pollution.

My li'l ol' woodburner uses at most 1.5 cubic metres of wood a year. There is no gas within a mile of where I live.

The wood is grown within a couple of miles of where I live and is the 'waste' from commercial timber growing and processed by a state-of-the-art sawmill. It's delivered by a small diesel engined lorry. How does the pollution stack up in both cases?

So yes, woodburners do cause pollution and installing them in inner cities already choking on filthy air is madness. But let's keep things in proportion. For many country people a woodburner is an essential for when you're off the gas grid or when the mains power is off. And it happens.

During the first 70's oil crisis we moved from a house with a woodburner into a house that relied on oil for heating and electricity to fire the boiler. After seemingly endless industrial action resulting in no power and oil shortages we froze for weeks on end. We vowed we'd never be without a woodburner again.

 

 

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I'm thinking my 2007 Mercedes CLK 320 CDI Sport is going to be worth next to nothing in the next year or so but it's too good an all rounder to let go on the cheap..

Too true, and the replacement will use yet more of the world's resources even if it is made from raffia and recycled yogurt pots.

 

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I was thinking along the same lines, they need to try justifying charging us mo money.

If the pollution levels were as high as they say you would see a thick hass in the sky, but there's none!

 

 

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3 hours ago, pidgeonpost said:

Trees are made of wood or they were when I was a boy!  So why would so-called tree huggers be in favour of burning them?

I'm being facetious of course. Wood burners do produce pollution, I agree and I have one. I haven't done the maths, but consider this. Somewhere in Russia, the Middle East or elsewhere armies of diesel powered machinery is extracting or otherwise obtaining gas or oil for us. It is then shipped (more diesel) or piped across to us where it is transported again (more diesel) before we use it in the form of gas or oil for cooking and heating - so a bit more pollution.

My li'l ol' woodburner uses at most 1.5 cubic metres of wood a year. There is no gas within a mile of where I live.

The wood is grown within a couple of miles of where I live and is the 'waste' from commercial timber growing and processed by a state-of-the-art sawmill. It's delivered by a small diesel engined lorry. How does the pollution stack up in both cases?

So yes, woodburners do cause pollution and installing them in inner cities already choking on filthy air is madness. But let's keep things in proportion. For many country people a woodburner is an essential for when you're off the gas grid or when the mains power is off. And it happens.

During the first 70's oil crisis we moved from a house with a woodburner into a house that relied on oil for heating and electricity to fire the boiler. After seemingly endless industrial action resulting in no power and oil shortages we froze for weeks on end. We vowed we'd never be without a woodburner again.

 

 

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Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking wood burners, simply saying that the government are (as usual) operating in a knee-jerk reaction to the latest scare-mongering and considering legislation to hit an easy target.

 

I grew up on a farm and we also had large open fires, a 'pot-bellied' wood burning stove and an AGA which chewed through coal, but we were at least 2 miles from our nearest neighbour. I now live in a small village on the edge of a huge town and wood burners are definitely in vogue if my neighbour's log supply business is anything to go by!

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Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking wood burners, simply saying that the government are (as usual) operating in a knee-jerk reaction to the latest scare-mongering and considering legislation to hit an easy target.

 

I grew up on a farm and we also had large open fires, a 'pot-bellied' wood burning stove and an AGA which chewed through coal, but we were at least 2 miles from our nearest neighbour. I now live in a small village on the edge of a huge town and wood burners are definitely in vogue if my neighbour's log supply business is anything to go by!

Understood.

 

Reading online it seems that woodburners are in vogue in London and the South East. Some bits of the SE I can understand, but London? Wood must be a horrendous price there.

We have 4 neighbours within about ¼ mile radius and never notice woodsmoke in the air though it must be there. What we do notice is the neighbour who burns plastic in his stable yard. That smoke is really evil.

 

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Hopefully the 640d price drops enough for me to convince myself to buy onesooner rather than later.seriously though,all of this has now got me waiting to see what happens.

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^^^this is what I mean. Current owners will either hold out to see what happens or crap themselves and sell at any price. Potential buyers are almost certainly going to postpone buying a diesel or will play safe and buy a petrol. I can't see how any of this isn't going to affect residuals in a negative way. It definitely won't help them stay up anyway.

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The problem with the scrappage scheme proposal is it is only directed at new cars, so you can't trade in your 2003 oil burner for a later second-hand petrol model of the same standard, which begs the question how many of us can realistically afford the jump from a 8-10-12 y/o luxury car to a brand new one? So we either hang on to affordable comfort or sign up for personal leasing deals which extend the countries indebtedness. Add in people like me who use our cars for work (20k miles per year plus) and we are between a rock and a hard place as I don't want to do that sort of mileage in a bloody Prius even assuming I could afford one!

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My dad was in Sytners in Nottingham trying to find a 535d and was asking the salesman about the whole Diesel killing babies thing. The salesman said it hasn't harmed their sales nor do they expect it to either.

 

The scrapage scheme will be for much older cars pre Euro 6 and if it's like the scheme they did a few years ago it will only be against new vehicles which will shed atleast £2k the minute it's driven out of the showroom, therefore you really haven't saved anything. Think of the pollution in making a new car.  

 

Save the planet and drive an older second hand one and if it's got a big petrol V8 in then even better to warm the planet up a bit.:P

 

If we all listened to the government on everything I would be living in an independent Scotland now, and thank fox I don't!

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There will still be the knee-jerk brigade, I remember when they last had the scheme, some numpty on the TV beaming at the fact he had scrapped his perfectly serviceable car and bought a brand-new Nissan Quashquai. I don't recall what his old car was, but I do remember thinking he could till have got £2k for it if he'd traded it against a dealer car or flogged it privately!

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1 hour ago, pauliexjr said:

There will still be the knee-jerk brigade, 

 

Yup or

 

On 07/05/2017 at 11:47 AM, Yokozuna said:

the idiots (sorry I ment general public)

 

as previously mentioned.

 

Top Gear did a piece on all the perfectly good cars that were culled in that last scheme. A real shame. Like old E39s some are sadly not worth £2k but they are now suddenly worth it as an incentive, but who makes up the short fall. Sure as hell won't be the supplying dealer 

 

Oh that's right it's me the mug who pays his taxes!

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12 hours ago, pauliexjr said:

The problem with the scrappage scheme proposal is it is only directed at new cars, so you can't trade in your 2003 oil burner for a later second-hand petrol model of the same standard, which begs the question how many of us can realistically afford the jump from a 8-10-12 y/o luxury car to a brand new one?

 

Its worse than that those that can afford the new car generally have the nicer well maintained examples so last time all the "good" old stuff got scrapped where as those that couldn't afford to buy new soldier on with the dross run on a shoe string so it actually gets rid of the best of the old stock.

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