nashdm2

535i Availability

51 posts in this topic

On 05/04/2017 at 3:20 PM, F10530D said:

These cars certainly do handle well considering their sheer size, and 500Nm+ of torque to push you out of corners always feels great.

 

That must be great.  my 530i only has 220nm I think.. still pulls well out of corners but you need to wring it out.. low down grunt must be nice. Wouldn't mind trying a 535i to see how it compares.

Mine regularly sees well into 6000+ rpm and sounds great. I don't think that's abuse but stretching it's legs... 

 

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5 minutes ago, bmwmike said:

 

That must be great.  my 530i only has 220nm I think.. still pulls well out of corners but you need to wring it out.. low down grunt must be nice. Wouldn't mind trying a 535i to see how it compares.

Mine regularly sees well into 6000+ rpm and sounds great. I don't think that's abuse but stretching it's legs... 

 

 

Yeah hardly ever need to use the sport mode as the 530d delivers 540Nm from 1500 revs so plenty of shove very low down... however being an auto mine still regularly sees over 4000 revs where surprisingly there's still a good amount of grunt - it doesn't  seem to die off at high revs unlike other diesels I've driven.

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23 minutes ago, bigshout said:

Why buy a powerful engine if your not going to open it up regulary?

 

Because I drive with restraint unlike the Jeremy Hunt in the white F30 on the M74 and M8 today who was driving like he had an M3 but was making do with a 318d...which had the most horrible leather colour in it.

 

I want the opportunity to open it up and when I do I want to enjoy it and my engine lets me do that.  It mostly only does 6 miles each way to the station so would kill a Diesel. With only a short journey the oil isn't quite fully up to temp so I'm not going to cane it with cold oil.

 

Go onto to BMW AUC and search for a used 5er with a petrol engine. I had a choice of only two F10s, both of which were 535is in my budget....not that I was complaining. One was manual and at a dealer I refuse to go to and the other one was auto and had the fabulous 3AC towbar.

 

I used it for work today and did far more miles and had the chance to open her up....until I hit the specs average scameras on the M73.

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15 minutes ago, bmwmike said:

 

That must be great.  my 530i only has 220nm I think..

 

No you will have more twist than that. 220lbsft Mibbies which will be over 300Nm, I think.

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Don't ever compare torque figures. Torque is multiplied before it gets to your rear wheels, and the drivetrain in the petrol car multiplies it more than the diesel car. 

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What does that mean?  Diesels have far more torque than petrols, end of. 

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Er, not "end of"! Torque is multiplied by gearboxes and final drives. If you put 500nm and 1000 rpm into a reduction gearbox of (say) 4:1, you get 2000nm and 250rpm out of the gearbox. 

 

Petrol cars have final drives of a greater reduction ratio than diesel cars, because petrol engines rev higher. So they multiply the torque more. 

 

What you need to compare is power (which is torque x revs) as this is not affected by gearboxes. Diesels do normally make more power at low revs than petrols, but not by the amount that is inferred by comparing peak torque figures. Just ignore torque figures, they are meaningless nonsense promulgated by marketing departments and latched on to by ignorant motoring journalists. I could make a 2cv engine that delivered 2000nm peak torque, with no mods to the engine... 

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To compare the 35i to the 35d at anything other than max rpm, you can overlay the 2 power curves. 

 

Conventionally you align the rpms where the peak power occurs, but this is only comparing the two engines. To compare the two cars, you adjust by the difference in final drive ratios. This lets you see how much power one car has in a certain gear and a certain speed compared to the other (same gear, same speed). 

 

Luckily, in the past, I have prepared these graphs for your viewing pleasure. 

35i-vs-35d-power.jpg

35i-vs-35d-power-gearing-matched.jpg

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1 hour ago, Pottsy said:

I could make a 2cv engine that delivered 2000nm peak torque, with no mods to the engine... 

 

How?

 

You can't make a statement like that without proof my old mucker.:D

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By putting a reduction gear on the output shaft. Same power, but as much torque as you like. 

 

Just demonstrating how pointless torque figures are. You can change them with gears. 

Edited by Pottsy

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1 hour ago, Pottsy said:

To compare the 35i to the 35d at anything other than max rpm, you can overlay the 2 power curves. 

 

Conventionally you align the rpms where the peak power occurs, but this is only comparing the two engines. To compare the two cars, you adjust by the difference in final drive ratios. This lets you see how much power one car has in a certain gear and a certain speed compared to the other (same gear, same speed). 

 

Luckily, in the past, I have prepared these graphs for your viewing pleasure. 

35i-vs-35d-power.jpg

35i-vs-35d-power-gearing-matched.jpg

Nice charts... what do they mean please for a thicko like me !?

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They mean that:

 

  • When worked hard at high rpm, the 35i and 35d are the same. 
  • When at half rpm (roughly 3000 for the 35i and 2300 for the 35d), the 35d has 18% more power. 
  • When at the same speed in the same gear (roughly 3000 for the 35i and 2600 for the 35d), the 35d has 35% more power. This stat is a bit misleading, because the 35d will run out of rpm earlier. However it best quantifies the "feel" of the diesel. 
  • Comparing the peak torque figures (630nm, 400nm, 58% difference) is a complete nonsense due to the different reduction gears fitted to the two cars. 

 

Here is an analogy for the torque thing, using electricity:

 

To get 1kw of power down a wire, you could have 100V and 10A, or 10V and 100A. Power is just Volts x Amps. 

Indeed, you can step the voltage up and down using a transformer. So you can convert the 100V 10A supply to 10V 100A using a transformer, but you will always have 1kw of power. 

To get 1kw of power down a rotating shaft, you could have 1000nm and 10 rpm, or 100nm and 100 rpm. Power is just torque x rpm. Indeed you can step the torque up and down using a gearbox. So you can convert your 1000nm 10rpm supply to 100nm 100 rpm supply using a gearbox, but you will always have 1kw of power. 

Comparing torque figures of different engines is like comparing voltages of different electric motors. A nonsense because it's not the full story. You need to compare power (kW, PS, bhp, btu/h, erg/s, Nm/s etc). 

 

bmwmike likes this

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What does British Thermal Units have to do with anything?  Is this a wind up?

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BTU/h is just another measurement of power. My 535d has a max power output of 218 BTU/s. Just me quoting different measurements of power, not trying to wind anyone up. 

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Yeah, right. British Thermal Units are how we measure heat output, nothing to do with power. 

If your theory stacks up why aren't we all driving around in one cylinder engines?  Apparently the gearbox multiplies the power!

Edited by E39touring

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BTU/s is a unit of power. 

A gearbox multiplies torque, not power. See all my above posts. 

Number of cylinders does not equate to power output. 

 

Now I think it's you who's trying to engage in a wind up. I have simply tried to put down some simplified engineering to explain why it's a nonsense to directly compare max torque figures from petrol and diesel engines. It's not contraversial, it's just simple science. 

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But you are not, you are talking about max torque figures at the wheels, not the engine, with the misconception that the gearbox is some sort of power multiplier. 

Anyway, I'm still not sure if this is a wind up so I'm out. 

535iAR likes this

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The gearbox and FD multiply TORQUE not POWER. The cars have different FDs. I keep saying this, but you keep telling me I have said a gearbox multiplies power. 

 

I think I am in the wrong forum for this kind of stuff. Simple science, get shouted at. 

admiral and bmwmike like this

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^^^ you're not on the wrong forum, it's just some people don't get it..... ;) 

 

I think no matter what you say wether you have proof or not that mr touring will disagree with you, please don't be put off as I'm interested in "simple" :lol: science 

 

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Right so back to the topic subject......

 

So how many 535is are up for sale via AUC then?  There was one at a dealer in Perth recently I tried to get one of my guys to buy to end his Alfaitis but he bought a Golf R instead.  Atleast it has some power going to the right wheels.

 

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21 minutes ago, Pottsy said:

The gearbox and FD multiply TORQUE not POWER. The cars have different FDs. I keep saying this, but you keep telling me I have said a gearbox multiplies power. 

 

I think I am in the wrong forum for this kind of stuff. Simple science, get shouted at. 

What you are saying makes sense to me, quite interesting reading tbh

GruntBoy likes this

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11 minutes ago, 535iAR said:

Right so back to the topic subject......

 

So how many 535is are up for sale via AUC then?  There was one at a dealer in Perth recently I tried to get one of my guys to buy to end his Alfaitis but he bought a Golf R instead.  Atleast it has some power going to the right wheels.

 

Well said my brain was begining to hurt with all this talk of torque curves and power outputs. 

 

Great choice of 535i F11's at the minute on AUC some seem a little pricey though compared to what I paid for my brand new F11. 

 

Edited by Steveo1

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There is only one petrol GT on the AUC website - a 550i with poverty spec. 

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I've had an eye on 535i availability myself, but they all seem to be poverty spec, too old, or individual examples too pricey for what other dealers have been pitching them at. And there's precious little to choose from.

 

Or black. Not fond of black cars.

Edited by amauvis

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