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E60 525i N53 Cold Start Rough Idle - Fault Codes

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3 minutes ago, SHAHZ said:

Garage said none of the plugs were overly sooty, they were changed in may last year and all 6 could last December!

 

will check out the plugs to see if they are wet!

Yah looking like injectors. ..  how is your exhaust pipe looking?  sooty black?  clean up the inside and see how quickly it goes black.  Mine got thick soot very quickly but now I can do 200 miles and wipe my finger on the inside and there is only a bit of black soot

 

 

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12 hours ago, Ervin said:

Shahz, are there any misfire codes? 

 

Yeap on 4, 5 & 6 and another error for misfire on several cylinders 

 

Also got mixture control, mixture control 2 and lastly cylinder equality via unbalanced cylinder 4

 

Mike I haven't check the exhaust, but the mechanic did say the sulphur levels were very high, but that could have been due to the mixture issues with the vacuum leak..... I'm now thinking it's nothing to do with the air leak as the issues are still present.

 

its all pointing to the injectors at the moment!

Edited by SHAHZ

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Look similar to mine....  if you can't recondition them, you may want to consider buying new injectors from genuineautoparts.com.  A few days wait but you'll save a few hundred vs UK dealer. 

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@ER and @SHAHZ did either of get to the bottom of this cold start problem.  

 

My brother now has my 530i with the n53 engine and has the same symptoms. 

 

He has just paid £604.00 to have the valve cover replaced as we thought it might be a blocked ccv and we could see the old valve cover gasket was leaking oil.  But the problem still exist's any ideas?

 

also is £604.00 a bit price for this job?

Edited by Mr_530i

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Guys take a look at this https://bimmerprofs.com/

If you have time read this guys blog in regards to petrol direct injected N43 and N53.

 

Although I don't have any issues with cold start mis-fire, I get this re-occurring NOX sensor fault coming up every so often every time after I've reset it and noticed that my car never runs in stratified lean burn mode (Lambda 2 > 3.5) due to this fault, this is the main benefit of direct injected petrol engines.  The OEM NOX sensor are not reliable and often fail in a very short amount of time.  His blog also ties this to issues with never ending idling issues, mis-fires, incorrect fuel adaptations etc.

 

I've placed an order for his version of an emulator NOX which is uses a BOSCH motorsport version of  the NOX sensor and has a much longer working life.  The OEM version is particularly steep at £400 plus, his unit is euro 300, I will be installing this weekend and will report back after I run some real-time diags on INPA.

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Hi mate, thanks for sharing, interesting article indeed.  Rough running returned on my E60 a few months back but it was solved by replacing the remaining three injectors for cylinders 4 - 6.  

 

The aging NOX error is there in the background though. It will be interesting to see how the sensor you have purchased performs. Keep is updated. Cheers 

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17 hours ago, leew88 said:

Guys take a look at this https://bimmerprofs.com/

If you have time read this guys blog in regards to petrol direct injected N43 and N53.

 

Although I don't have any issues with cold start mis-fire, I get this re-occurring NOX sensor fault coming up every so often every time after I've reset it and noticed that my car never runs in stratified lean burn mode (Lambda 2 > 3.5) due to this fault, this is the main benefit of direct injected petrol engines.  The OEM NOX sensor are not reliable and often fail in a very short amount of time.  His blog also ties this to issues with never ending idling issues, mis-fires, incorrect fuel adaptations etc.

 

I've placed an order for his version of an emulator NOX which is uses a BOSCH motorsport version of  the NOX sensor and has a much longer working life.  The OEM version is particularly steep at £400 plus, his unit is euro 300, I will be installing this weekend and will report back after I run some real-time diags on INPA.

 

Thanks for sharing that site. It has some very good analysis. One article suggests clearing codes is not enough to satisfy rough running after replacing parts but the long term trims must also be cleared. 

 

Great info. Thanks again. 

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On 8/24/2017 at 10:05 AM, ER said:

Hi mate, thanks for sharing, interesting article indeed.  Rough running returned on my E60 a few months back but it was solved by replacing the remaining three injectors for cylinders 4 - 6.  

 

The aging NOX error is there in the background though. It will be interesting to see how the sensor you have purchased performs. Keep is updated. Cheers 

 

Well I fitted the aftermarket NOX sensor / emulator, hardest part was getting underneath the car to the centre exhaust area with enough space to work on.  I ended up pivoting my car at around 30 degress using two axel stands on drivers side front and rear on the suspension arms with the hydraulic jack and the standard BMW jack there for backup safety measure.  Remove the central support cross-member located just before the rear sliencer (4 bolts) which then reveals the NOX sensor screwed into the exhaust pipe.  The OEM NOX sensor was also a bugger to get off, I didn't have the special Lambda socket tool to remove so resorted in a 22mm open-ended spanner, wacked it a few times with a hammer to free it.  The ECU control unit is part of the NOX sensor, which is mounted towards the right under the under-tray cover (follow the cable), only a few screws needed to be removed in order to drop the under-tray down slightly to remove the ECU box held on with a couple of bolts, finally re-fitting new NOX/ECU box is the reversal of removal.

 

So how does it perform, well firstly as I had to clear all short / long term fuel trims adaptations, as well as register a new replacement NOX cat as per fitting instruction.  Initial start-up was really rough due to clearing adaptations and bunch of DSC/DBC etc fault codes needed to be cleared also, bare in mind I never had any rough start-up before so this is only due to clearing adaptations.

 

I took my car out for a few runs in order for the DME to carry out all the necessary adaption, gentle drive up to 70mph, idle for 5 mins etc.  The next next day I started her up no issues with cold start running etc. good!

 

Next up I ran INPA with live diags with the engine warmed up idling, it would switch to stratifed fuel saving mode, this never happened with the old faulty NOX.  Did a few runs around the neighbourhood 30 - 60mph with my wife monitoring INPA diags (uhmm!) switches to stratified mode on light loads and cruise, post CAT O2 lambda reading are between 2.5 - 3 (very lean) result!

 

So the conclusion is that a faulty NOX will effect the fuel consumption on a N43 or N53 direct injection engine up to 25% to be exact due to not able to run in stratified mode and I had been driving around for the past 5 years thinking that it was just for emissions, will this NOX last longer than the OEM version, well time will tell.  The seller offers 12 months warranty on the sensor itself and lifetime warranty on the ECU control unit and is approx £150 cheaper than the OEM version.  The other benefit is that his emulator will filter out any issues with "ageing NOX CAT" error codes which mean you don't need to replace the NOX cat should it fail or you can even perform de-CAT without effecting the functionality of the engine which something you can't do with the OEM NOX.

Edited by leew88

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25 minutes ago, leew88 said:

 

Next up I ran INPA with live diags with the engine warmed up idling, it would switch to stratifed fuel saving mode, this never happened with the old faulty NOX.  

 

Nice write up!  Can you explain this bit though - I would have expected stratified fuel mode at idle?

 

Edit.. doh I misread. Thanks

Edited by bmwmike

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5 minutes ago, bmwmike said:

 

Nice write up!  Can you explain this bit though - I would have expected stratified fuel mode at idle?

 

All explained here

https://bimmerprofs.com/n43n53-operation-modes-basics/

https://bimmerprofs.com/n43n53-operation-modes-check/

 

Basically if you have any NOX related error fault codes in your DME stratified will never activate, it will run in emergency "homogeneous" fuel mixture mode same as pre-N53 engines ie N52, M54 etc.

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Hi Leew88, it's been a while... Would you mind directing me towards the site of the NOX emulator you've purchased. If you are happy with its performance I would like to replace my original one.  Cheers 

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33 minutes ago, ER said:

Hi Leew88, it's been a while... Would you mind directing me towards the site of the NOX emulator you've purchased. If you are happy with its performance I would like to replace my original one.  Cheers 

 

Here you go https://bimmerprofs.com/shop-noxem129-130/

 

No more re-occurring NOX related fault codes for me, car runs and idles smoothly and most importantly it runs stratified when required.

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Thank you the  https://bimmerprofs.com/shop-noxem129-130/ link. I think this is one of the most valuable link for N53 owners. I have an 530XI LCI with rough cold idle which disappeasr after 3-5 min. I know that my NOX sensor is faulty but never thought it has a direct effect on the adatptations. I have ordered the sensor and the ODB cable. Hope got them next week. Come back with the result. 

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Quote

heat up the engine – I don’t think, that this step requires special instructions. I just want to remark, that don’t do that too aggressive/dynamically – MSD80 can react and turn on the “sports” mode, it means, the Stratified charge will be turned off for a while;

from https://bimmerprofs.com/n43n53-operation-modes-check/

 

On 27/08/2017 at 12:22 PM, leew88 said:

Next up I ran INPA with live diags with the engine warmed up idling, it would switch to stratifed fuel saving mode, this never happened with the old faulty NOX.

I also need to check for this in INPA at some point.

 

I think on my short commute that when blasting up to 70 mph may have been preventing the injection mode trickery from occuring. So today I more lesurely accelerated up to crusing speed and it seemed to more readily achieve closer to the 45/50mpg mark on the guage than usual at ~65mph. Though I am only able to cruise economically for around 3 miles (of the 10 each way). Maybe just enough to trigger the NOX regens (NOx catalytic converter regeneration and desulfation).

Good job I didn't get a Diesel that requires the more demanding DPF regeneration cycles. Well, the jury is still out on that one, time will tell.

 

Interesting to find out that the N53 employs up to 3 strategic operational injection phases per stroke, during intake, during compression and up into full compression TDC :o but this does all seem quite complicated for these now aging motors. https://bimmerprofs.com/n43n53-operation-modes-basics/

 

Edit: I observed that on a flat straight road, on a still  dry day (8 degreeC air), on an average road surface, with a stock (setup with 18" tires), after repeatedly resetting the fuel computer mpg, I found that 47mpg is achievable on the computer at 60 to 65mph but did notice that my mpg gauge over read the computer by ~5mpg.

Note that is practically impossible to maintain that rate of fuel consumption for the length of a full journey.

 

Edited by DarkHorse
typo's and details

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I got the NOX emulator and it is installed by a mechanic. Using DIS57 for the encoding of the new NOX sensor and INPA for deleting the old adaptations. New NOX sensor is working, stratified mode is working again. The fuel consumption dropped from 10.9 to 9.1L/100km but more time required to have realistic average number.  But as I realised I am far from the end of this project, this was only the first step, planned further steps:  https://bimmerprofs.com/rough-run-summary/

 

It is a quite impressive list which takes time to do it but at the end I hope to have a bimmer in perfect condition. It is really amazing how much effors Kaspars put into this https://bimmerprofs.com/  project to help others.

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Since fitting my NOX emulator I've also updated my DME to the latest firmware, bimmerprofs analysis shows that older firmware had incorrect rough-rough algorithms.  Mine was old firmware from 2008 according to INPA UIF, I used WINKFP to update to the latest for N53 530i

 

DME OLD 7611492
DME NEW 8603176

 

So far so good no issues to report.

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Hi Leew88,

thank you your feedback, couple of questions concerning the programming of the DME:

-What interface cable did you use? ICOM or D-CAN? What was the charger amperage during the programming? How long did the programming take? I thik I can do the programming with WinKFP with K+D-CAN cable with a 32 Amp charger atttached but I am afraid to brick the module if the communication will be not stable with the K+D-CAN cable.

Edited by Mita

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10 hours ago, Mita said:

Hi Leew88,

thank you your feedback, couple of questions concerning the programming of the DME:

-What interface cable did you use? ICOM or D-CAN? What was the charger amperage during the programming? How long did the programming take? I thik I can do the programming with WinKFP with K+D-CAN cable with a 32 Amp charger atttached but I am afraid to brick the module if the communication will be not stable with the K+D-CAN cable.

I used my normal DCAN cable with winkfp, I used jump leads connected to another vehicle with engine running, no problems with the DME flash which took about 3 mins.

 

Other modules I've flashed successfully are EGS and DAB.   Modules that I'm aware to avoid with DCAN are GWS (gearshifter ecu) which fails signature checks and the ones on the MOST optical network such as CCC navigation etc.

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Update on cold rough idle: I was not able to really poin to one or more injectors as root cause for this problem even if I used the cylinder on-off test bimmerprofs suggested. On top of that the injectors started to make quite a big noise. After a deep inhale I decided to replace the injectors. I got the 11 indexes. So far so good, the rough run, the noise is dissapeared. I still feel some little shaking but the adaptation process is far from over. I have tried  the DME upgrade width 8603178 sw but got error 201 - Wrong ECU hardware number message. Later I will try the default sw offered by WinKFP. 

Edited by Mita

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Well I thought as well, but as it turned out WinKFP (in comfort mode) is strict to do the programming based on the ECU HW number. I was a bit surprised to realize I have MDS81 ECU (2008-08 E60 530XI LCI) and my ECU HW number has a couple of firmware only. Anyway I updated to the latest one and it seems to be fine. What was strange for me is the amperage consuption of the car during the programming. I used a max 32A charger and during the programming time the charge was maxed to 32A, I suppose the car used more than this. The programming took about 10 minutes with D-CAN USB cable.

 

The little idle shaking - trembling remained in cold and warm stage. Today the spark plugs have been changed after replacing the coils and the injectors. At the weekend I reset and perform the adaptations again, checking the lambdas, vanos and injector short term trimming. Let see how the idle is changing. 

 

ANd last a tricky question: can you identify the red area of the attached picture? Can you gess what  it is and how is it possible?

Resized_20180208_100618_152[1].jpg

Resized_20180208_100626_5173[1].jpg

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