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Post Brexit Result

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David Davis (Secretary of state for leaving the EU) says the UK may pay for access to the single market. He forgot to mention how much. Net migration in the year to June was 335,000. Forget the nebulous sovereignty issue and it will be 'as you were lads'. But hey, Brexit is Brexit you know

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Post brexit so far...

A good chance we will still pay into the eu in order to have access to the single market.

A huge influx of eu nationals comming to the UK in the run up to the vote.

Backlog of applications from eu national to have citizenship. Up from 35k to around 100k

Free movement of people looking likely post brexit.

We will pay top dollar for negotiations team.

Will have to pay a small fee to visit eu countries.

So how are we now better of? I can't see the two main arguments surfacing. 1 getting our sovereignty back. 2. Controlling immigration and our boarders.

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But... but... I thought we were going to take back control. It looks like we are going to have to go back to the EU with our begging bowl, pay them a shit load of money, have to accept free movement of people and have no say whatsoever in policy. At least we won't have them telling us what to do. Now I can buy a 50kw kettle without interference from them. 

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Even if the pound reached parity with the dollar and there was mass unemployment, the people who voted to leave would still say it's a great idea.

The main reason being that they would need to admit they were fooled by the lies.

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Not being in a club has its downsides. Perhaps how great they are is just dawning.

 

Oh, and you could buy a 50kw kettle direct from China now if you wanted to. You just wouldn't be able to market it :) 

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Hopefully, if the results go the right way in the Austrian and Italian elections, it will all be irrelevant as the EU will cease to exist for much longer.

I fear this can only be the best outcome.

Brexit was voted for. Whatever the outcome of legal challenges etc we have to leave. No way we can say "er sorry eu. Colossal fuck up but can we stay?"

"Sure but all your special dispensations are gone"

We'd be the laughing stock of the world.

No thanks. So the collapse of the eu in its current form and a new version which we can shape and 'rejoin' would save face.

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On 01/12/2016 at 9:17 PM, whiskychaser said:

David Davis (Secretary of state for leaving the EU) says the UK may pay for access to the single market. He forgot to mention how much. Net migration in the year to June was 335,000. Forget the nebulous sovereignty issue and it will be 'as you were lads'. But hey, Brexit is Brexit you know

Did he say that or is it a media fabrication / media intentional misinterpretation designed to mislead those poor desperate Remainiacs?

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On 03/12/2016 at 0:26 PM, cocomillion said:

 

Post brexit so far...

A good chance we will still pay into the eu in order to have access to the single market.

A huge influx of eu nationals comming to the UK in the run up to the vote.

Backlog of applications from eu national to have citizenship. Up from 35k to around 100k

Free movement of people looking likely post brexit.

We will pay top dollar for negotiations team.

Will have to pay a small fee to visit eu countries.

So how are we now better of? I can't see the two main arguments surfacing. 1 getting our sovereignty back. 2. Controlling immigration and our boarders.

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It is only a good chance of having to pay to access the single market because the media have decided.. Have you considered that it may be beneficial to charge the EU to access the UK market?

The EU influx can come all they like, we will not be liable to pay any benefits for any unemployed EU nationals after Brexit, those who work and pay in will still be welcome.

I don't really see why there would be free movement for EU citizens

So you are saying that the EU will charge us money to go to their countries to spend our money in their economy?.... Last bunch who did that was the Commie blok who required us to exchange a minimum amount each day of our visit....Granted we will probably need to carry a green card for motoring visits..

 

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22 hours ago, Karl said:

Did he say that or is it a media fabrication / media intentional misinterpretation designed to mislead those poor desperate Remainiacs?

I refer the honourable gentleman to Hansard - 1 December 2016. Mr Davis was responding to a question posed by Wayne David MP (Caerphilly) if that helps

 

PS. The govt's stated goal is to get the best deal for Britain. It would appear that they think this may be achieved by paying to stay in ;)

Edited by whiskychaser

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1 hour ago, whiskychaser said:

I refer the honourable gentleman to Hansard - 1 December 2016. Mr Davis was responding to a question posed by Wayne David MP (Caerphilly) if that helps

 

PS. The govt's stated goal is to get the best deal for Britain. It would appear that they think this may be achieved by paying to stay in ;)

The magic word there is "May"  No one has any doubt that if the UK was to remain in the single market, then they may try to charge us.. He didn't say that paying was the best option, just that it may be an option... Seems like the Italians have done a nice hatchet job on the EU too and the Germans have told Greece to sort their act out or be kicked out of the Euro Zone..

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As momentum across Europe continues, its better for us. Europe wide, they are experiencing similar problems with uncontrolled immigration.

Today I tried to get through to LBC but only liberal listeners were given air time. It was in response to today's report on political correctness being partially to blame for cultural disintegration. My point was that this has been an ongoing issue. You look at areas like Luton, Bradford, Sparkbrook, Southall: they are a gaping reason why our own immigration has led to social exclusion and integration issues. It has become a takeover and parts of our country which no longer reflect British culture or way of life. Consequently, no British person can identify with these places. I'm not being racist; it's the result of racism and selective immigration policy failures. If you moved to a new country - as Brits do to Spain - you wouldn't want to mix with indigenous people if the impression you had was that they were unwelcoming. Similarly, there's a balance.

The issue I had with the EU referendum was that politicians sought to misinterpret the leave voters motivations. They hinged it on our dissatisfaction with the Eastern European influx, and even tried to argue that the public were disenfranchised with the fact that our immigration was not proportionally coming in enough numbers from India and Africa which not only is an inherent misunderstanding, but also an intrinsic misrepresentation. For me - I voted leave - Farage was the resonating success and not the Tories who tried to shaft is and then swept up the credit.

As we see in Austria, Slovakia, France, Germany, Italy and Greece, we are not only the only ones who have an issue.

It is a fact that the more concentration of Moslems in particular areas, the more likely you are to have segregation, faith schools which have been slated as underperforming, not promoting British values; and subsequently a hot bed for radical Islamic ideology. Somewhere within these communities, there are serious thought issues. And when you look at how England and Wales is permanently changing, you can understand why.

Today's report recommends that immigrants take an oath to uphold British values. It's crap. If we suppose the lengths that people are willing to take in order to come here, with accounts of persecution, it is purely another box to tick: no-one can determine or enforce this. The narrative was then pulled in the direction of her 'appeasement' of left views, which demonstrated the issue with people being able to exercise free speech for the fear of being politically incorrect, by effectively ostracising anyone who doesn't agree with debate.

The point is that the EU is going to fail at some point. And Scotland should be thinking very carefully about which side they want to be on, for the danger of ostracising themselves from the UK.

The MP's persuading Scots will be out of politics from one administration to the next, and they are as self serving as they purport Westminster is for the interests of representing Scottish people. They're not in it for the long run, and before you know it they're gone like the previous two PM's, leaving the rest of the country try to sort out the mess.

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I was being generous. This is what was actually said: 

 

Wayne David's question:

'Will the government consider making any contribution in any shape or form for access to the single market?'

 

Davis's answer:

'The major criterion is that we get the best possible access for goods and services to the European market. If that is included in what he is talking about then of course we would consider it.'

 

Not sure where the money would come from. NHS cuts? 

 

PS. I thought this was a post Brexit result thread?

Edited by whiskychaser

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Ok, it's going to either come from tax increases, cuts in public spending, or continued payment to the EU for access to the single market.

I made a lot of points. It didn't read properly through the thread.

I can't see the EU lasting, so eventually we may be relying on partial payments for diminishing access, and a mix of individual agreements with EU nations who have opted out.

We took a bold step, and I don't think we are the last country to vote out.

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Way things are going personaly i cant see the Eu surviving. Put it into perspective,

 

It's lost its 3rd largest contributor,

Multiple country's are starting to talk of official referendums to pull out

Any prospective new members are going to drain resources from the EU rather than bring them

Multiple large countrys (including Germany, o the irony) have said they want trade deals

 

So the EU is looking dead on its ass.

 

As far as the outcome of brexit, there are two camps, pessimists who think the Uk is doomed and is going to become a 3rd world country, and the optimists who think the UK will return to the glory of the empire.

 

Reality is I expect it will work out somewhere in the middle, with the UK having less say in the EU but more autonomy from it. The EU can't afford to loose the UK as a trading partner, Germany and france would both take pretty major hits if they did and given they support the EU, any economic hit they would take would affect the rest of the EU.

 

Neither side, EU or UK can afford to not have some sort of deal, it's as simple as that and anyone claiming either side wouldn't take a hit if we don't is living in a dream world.

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It's a shame the EU became such an instant technocratic self absorbed (Hitlerish) model.

It could have created a fantastic economic strength, but with absolute power comes absolute abuse, disrespect and disregard for sovereign values and shared interests.

It started with key members able to financially input, but then has expanded to take on anyone interested in joining to the point that the burden of output is ridiculous. The result is a system full of takers rather than givers, and every member state has lost any hope of reasonable autonomy. I mean why would Turkey even have been given consideration to joining Europe.

It could have made the perfect global model of multiculturalism, that actually had a hope of working, but instead has flooded us with untenable immigration, and in so doing, has created the opposite effect.

We're all better off going back to the status quo. And I think it will work better. It's ridiculous when you look at what the EU has done to Greece and Italy. There is no reason why countries like this should be on their knees. It's a disgrace.

I'll take enjoyment in watching it collapse.

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Germany is a hot bed of Merkel error's of judgement re "all welcome" and Hollande now out of the German/Franco alliance that powered all self indulging instructions to the rest. Greece is a maxi mess, must be the climate stops civil unrest as they can sit in the sun and moan about their own politicians who are servants of EU/Germany etc.

Italy - lord knows how their banks are holding on but maybe Germany will be forced to sidestep all rules (yet again) and push through a plan ala Greece and punish the Italians.

 

So how can this mess dictate crap terms to us - German auto industry could not stand the sales loss plus probably other industries.

Japan can sit around and quietly fill the trade gap via smiling Sunderland etc.

just my views.

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And, unbelievably, there are still people that think it's a good idea to be a member of this failing club.

We could have given ourselves an advantage over all the other members by getting out before the inevitable collapse, if our Government would just GET ON WITH IT..

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1 hour ago, Paddy O'Furniture said:

And, unbelievably, there are still people that think it's a good idea to be a member of this failing club.

We could have given ourselves an advantage over all the other members by getting out before the inevitable collapse, if our Government would just GET ON WITH IT..

 

Interesting time if Commons actually pass the Article 50 process today - I like the idea of MP voting against the peoples' clear mandate to be named ready for sword of Damocles at next election - to be held shortly perhaps.

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And, unbelievably, there are still people that think it's a good idea to be a member of this failing club.

We could have given ourselves an advantage over all the other members by getting out before the inevitable collapse, if our Government would just GET ON WITH IT..

You voted for Parliament to have control over our laws and then when judges try and uphold that principle, you get all wound up?

Staggering.

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24 minutes ago, inkiboo said:

You voted for Parliament to have control over our laws and then when judges try and uphold that principle, you get all wound up?

Staggering.

 

But when Parliament  has already passed the decision to population via Referendum, that produced a clear result, therefore why not accept that decision and principle, not get wound up and employ suspect and historical laws plus pontificating judges to attempt to reduce or disqualify the decision already passed to said population. Judges will enjoy rolling around in this issue for ages, counterclaiming and disqualifying any legal claim from the opposing side. 

Fascinating that it not genuine UK nationals but "others" who found the means to raise this affront to the referendum whilst claiming the moral high ground.

Government has a massive blame for providing the vehicle for population to show clear dissent and vote leave - that is not arguable but fact but now history.

I am sure this comment may well be argued as rubbish, but as simple English I want democracy of sorts returned from EU non-realists, i.e EUSSR.

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