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Heavy rain, Water leak

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@binary

 

Don't pay them a bean don't even considering paying.

It is a design/manufacturing fault period so don't give BMW $stealers the satisfaction of ripping you off at $tealer rates to 'diagnose' the problem. it is not a problem its a manufacturing fault and it should not be there.

 

If you can't or don't want to diy this then go to an independent at least you will have the satisfaction of knowing BMW has not profited from you for this issue.

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Hi All

 

Just to add weight to this topic I appear to have a similar issue, I syphoned 6L of water out of the n/s rear foot well on Sunday, My car is also parked on a slop nose upwards.

As I was concerned I rang BMW recovery services who had it recovered to Halliwell Jones (Wilmslow) and provided a hire car.

 

I spoke to the service dept. at HJ on Monday and they advised the extended warranty would not cover water damage and asked me to authorise 1 hour diagnosis, after much argument they agreed to do the diagnosis at their cost.

 

I then got a call from HJ Service dept. on Tuesday saying tat they needed to remove the carpets to diagnose the issue and subsequent damage and this would take 5 hours and wanted me to authorise over £800, following ensuing arguments they offered to reduce the rate bringing the charge down to £470. I told them I would not authorise any cost.

 

I then emailed Graeme Grieve (BMW UK MD) and the MD of HJ. I have received a reply from Graeme Grieve stating that he has asked his senior CS team to handle my complaint and I have also heard from the Service manager at HJ, presumably as a result I mailing his MD who has promised he will update me shortly.

 

I have owned 7 BMWs since 1991 and I have never felt so badly let down, I sincerely hope they resolve this issue or regrettably I feel this will be my last BMW.

 

Update:

Have received a call from HJ dealer principle and he has advised that he will take up the issue with BMW on my behalf, he doesn't want HJ to pay for the diagnostic anymore than I want to.

Additionally he has delivered me a loan car and arranged for the hire car to be collected so that I do not get charged for that

 

I will update this thread as soon as I get anywhere

 

 

Keep at em pal.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I took my car into Rybrook BMW Shrewsbury and advised them of the issue i had found. Their initial response was to request £90 to do an initial investigation that would cover an hours labour. I questioned why they need to investigate it as the problem could be easily demonstrated due to the design problem. After a long discussion with a less than helpful service department, with my first contact suggesting that my issue was a one off and when i referred her to various forums showing the same issue she responded by saying that people on forums are liars that make stuff up. The Tech was consulted and he suggested that the grommets were blocked on both sides (but they're not), but he went onto say that they usually modify (cut the end off) the grommet to prevent the grommet being blocked. This was a known issue on the E60 / E61, but I'm sure BMW have leared from that mistake? . As someone has suggested allowing water out of the bottom of the panel 51757211899 (74850610) would be an effective. solution, but i still cannot understand why BMW have gone to great lengths to seal this cover plate if it can simply be left off, which is how i am currently running mine. I am now in contact with BMW customer services who it appears are trying to establish the cost of the damage to car, but in order to do this i will have to pay the dealership £????? to investigate. Personally i feel that this issue should not be present in a £50K plus car and BMW must surely be aware of this issue and be able to offer a solution be that a buyback or a replacement of all the affected parts. Water in the floor pan is never good and problems may only begin to manifest themselves in the future as wiring degrades or ECUs and connections suffer oxidization and or corrosion.

 

As a side note there is also a silent recall for the air con condensor (for my model at least 530d) and this will be the 2nd one.

 

 

 

 

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Being able to cope with rain is a basic requirement you'd think. But then, so is having a wheel which can cope with poor roads without buckling or cracking regardless of if it's shod with RFT or GFT.

 

As for learning from mistakes look up e36 and e46 structural cracks..

 

 

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It's a definite design flaw and the attitude of the dealerships is at best irresponsible, for BMW not to take ownership and responsibility of the problem is disgusting, especially if the car is still under warranty.  What truly amazes me is the ignorance though, Williams Stockport wanted £135 +VAT to investigate and water test the car, yet my local independent knew exactly what the problem was most likely to be - that in itself gives me more confidence in their ability than the dealership!  Interestingly Williams phoned me about an event they were hosting and would I be interested in attending, I said no given the attitude and lack of assistance from their service department.

My F11 is nearly 5 years old and well out warranty, it simply wasn't worth the fight with the BMW to get them to fix it (I've had fights to get work done in the past when the car was under warranty) so I got my local independent to do the work instead at a fraction of what it would have cost.  The problem for my car was a double whammy of blocked bulk had drains and the vapour guard on the rear passenger door was leaking too.  Thankfully its all fixed and dry now.

I was very close to part ex-ing the F11 for a 640 Gran Coupe but I'm seriously considering taking my custom elsewhere, maybe something along the lines of an F-Pace.

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Just had a call from the service manager at Halliwell Jones and they have confirmed the issue and thankfully there is no further damage other than the carpet needs properly drying out.

They will be contacting BMW and hopefully BMW will pay HJ to do the work as good will.

I have to say that following my complaint HJ have been absolutely great, I really can't fault them.

BMW senior customer services, however, have been shocking I am still waiting for a return call since 14:10 yesterday despite chasing them twice. They really come across as not giving a SH!T.

 

 

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hillagio, I too had the double whammy of an unstuck vapour barrier and then a blocked water drain by the yellow grommet. Fortunately both fixed now (emails above) and carpets still dry. My BMW is of a similar age so I wonder if this is a common problem because crap builds up over time in the cavity between the cover plate and the grommet and the vapour barrier sealant dries out (or whatever). I will certainly keep an eye on both in the future. Adrian

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As I wanted to understand why this failure was occurring i dismantled the heater cowl to find the path water takes to ingress into the car, however, it transpires that i didn't need to. but the photos help to demonstrate.

 

The heater fan is located in a watertight box with a drain tube at the bottom (pic1 and 2) that goes through the body in white, this is well designed and has nothing to do with the problem as far as i can see.

 

There was also a grommet with a grill (pic 3) adjacent to the box which is normally hidden from view by the harness that passes through a large grommet into the heater box this soesnt appear to be for water but obviously if water did ever get this high it would go out of this hole.

 

So none of the above is relevant, but it was of interest to me

 

If you pour water onto the windscreen there are two obvious drains the water will be channeled down the inboard one (pic 4) being most likely due to the water management strategy of the trim design water then drops straight down onto the area shown  in (pic 5) note this is with the cover removed. but  shows water flooding in exactly the place you nont want it. As I stated in a previous post water entering the cover here cannot get out at the bottom because its not designed to let water out. Its also not designed to let water in, but it does!  The way the cover is held on is a bit like only having half of the bolts in your oil sump in place and not expecting it to leak oil. Therefore unless BMW make a change to the design of the cover plate this seal will invariably let water in and you will get wet carpets. or if they cant be bothered doing that the cover plated needs to be either sealed properly, left with a gap at the bottom to allow water to drain away or or least prefferrably removed completely, but this could result in nvh issues.

 

 

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Very easy it's about halfway down the bulkhead remove 4 torx head screws from the cover plate. The screws might not be obvious at first but I'll try and take some photos of the cover to assist you. 

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OK so I have my car back with nice dry carpets.:D

 

The service manager at HJ called yesterday and said that he had managed to keep the bill under £2k and therefore did not need to refer it back to BMW he asked me to pay £250 which I was happy to do as that is the excess on my BMW Comp Warranty, interestingly he said in an earlier call he was going to report it as component failure and my bill clearly states it was for the excess so I am wondering whether he did run it through the warranty in the end.

In any event HJ were very fair with me so I wasn't going to fall out over £250

 

BMW on the other hand still haven't rung me back but I have other things on my plate today rather than to get hot and bothered over them.

 

The whole episode has left a very nasty taste, this is obviously a common fault caused by a poor design and it's a shame that they don't stand behind their product.

However at the end of the day we all have the option to vote with our cheque book and that is something that I might just end up doing

 

I hate to think how many lease cars get hit by this and the lease company just roll over and pick up the tab. I only hope that other private owners that are unlucky enough to find themselves in the same situation manage to find this thread and either fix it themselves or use it to get somewhere with BMW.

 

Many thanks to everyone that has posted in this thread I hate to think what I would have done without it

 

KR

Binary

 

 

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Problem is this Forum and similar does not have weight to canvas BMW.

 

Possibly if this was being mentioned in the guides, 'Honest Johns', Glasses, Parkers etc as 'something to look out for' that would get BMWs attention

Just imagine loads of potential buyers all feeling the carpets when considering AUC cars.

 

The other thing is every time anyone takes a car in for a service, genuinely ask "Is my car is included in the recall for water ingress around the LHD steering column blanking plate?"

Just play dumb and argue "it must need doing as proactive preventive maintenance because everyone is reporting the problem all over the place!"

If enough people keep asking the dealers will increasingly report it up the food chain.

 

 

Edited by Alexak

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New to this forum folks, but most impressed with your diagnostics.

I have a 2010 F10 that had the passenger footwells filled with water during "Storm Katie's" torrential rain. Tried to soak up most of water by lifting carpets whilst waiting dealer appointment. Gave them the leads you guys have documented and leak identified as coming from yellow grommet. Good news!

£1100 quote to fix and dry out - Bad news! Very bad news indeed!!

 

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KC, just saw your post. Good in one sense the fault has been diagnosed as the same as all ours. This gives us more confidence we have all suffered from the same flaw and used the same fix to good effect.

 

Hugely bad they are quoting £1100 to rectify. The fix, in my opinion, is no more than either replacing the yellow grommet, or as I and others have done squeezing a good quality mastic around the perimter of the yellow grommet and, importantly, giving the whole area a good clean. In particular the bottom of the cavity between the grommet and the cover plate where like all of us there will be accummulated muck that will have prevented water egress. There is nothing technical about all this so seems a bit extortionate. As for drying the carpets I vacuumed up as much as I could from the rear passenger footwell and then put a heater in the car. After a few days it did the trick. And all OK (touch wood) since then.

 

So, if you can get underneath (others on this thread have said its possible to tackle from above) I would do that and save yourself a ton of cash.

 

Let us know how you get on.

 

Adrian

 

 

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Had the same problem on mine so with out removing anything, I just pumped silicon into where the water was going into the soundproofing and plenty all round.

Whole job took ten minutes.

Dried out the car by turning the heat up on the passenger side footwell with a good fan speed and a bag of 'antimist'. It absorbs any moisture in the car

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I had exactly this problem as well with a 2012 F10. The dealership located and fixed the problem under my warranty, so no complaints there.

 

However, about a month later my screen and dashboard lighting started to malfunction, cutting out frequently, and headlights appeared to dim and flicker. Back to dealer who replaced a wiring harness and fitted new battery. That didn't fix it so they replaced the alternator. That seemed to work but I believe the electrical fault was probably a consequence of the initial water leak as the car also had a severe condensation problem from day one.

The bottom line is I think this problem leak from the grommet is probably causing secondary faults within some of the cars affected.

 

I traded the car in shortly after and I wish it's new owner the best of luck!

 

 

 

 

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Several years ago I suffered exactly the same problem with a Volkswagen Passat Sports water had totally  destroyed the ECU which was situated in the front passenger footwell floor, and ruined all the carpets it cost me then close on a £ 1000 for dealer to fix, the initial  ingress of water was caused by the drain outlet being partially blocked with debris so every time it rained, the bulkhead below the front screen filled with water and subsequently after several days of rain the water got into the front footwell and also flooded the rear footwell as well, on my initial inspection I found the cause which was a stupid one way drain valve which looked a bit a rubber ducks bill pointing down, which the slightest bit of debris washing down the screen would block the valve, this was the only drain valve fitted to the car and was placed totally inaccessible place under the battery to remove the battery you had to take the car apart.

 

When the car went back to the main dealer for repair I told them whilst they had the car to remove this stupid drain valve and just leave a hole, after a week when they told me the car was ready to collection , on my arrival I asked the service manager had their tech removed the stupid one way valve he told me it was not necessary and I could easily remove it myself in minutes, at this point I refused to pay the bill and take the car away until this valve was removed as previously requested, after waiting in their foyer for about 1 1/2hours they had finally removed the one way valve which I already knew would take longer than minutes as suggested.

 

I went on and kept the car for several years more without any problems of ingress of water or any other problems relating to having removed  the valve, I  periodically ran a hose down the back of the bulkhead jut to make sure the drain hole was kept clear but this was not likely to block as the hole was now about the size of a ten pence coin, I do know several passats and audi's owners I told which all suffered the same problem but were saved from total flooding after telling them to remove the valve totally, I was just unfortunate know one told me the same before my own flooded, so this problem looks like all German built cars could well have the same type of stupid one way valve fitted.       

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Mastic is not going to work long term if the cavity fills with water and submerges the grommet. 

 

Frankly I'm considering getting shot of mine too as I can't be arsed faffing around with this and a couple of other bits and pieces which I'd not expect on a 4 yr old motor 

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Looking at the design of the valve fitted into the bmw is it not possible to remove it totally which would leave a larger drain hole, I've not looked at my own yet just the pictures above.

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