Jump to content
ozzy2015

Heavy rain, Water leak

Recommended Posts

8 minutes ago, nashdm2 said:

lol, I watched the video 4 times before I realised the camera is upside down!!! I must get more sleep.

 

Have you got a littl'un who likes to get up in the middle of the night too?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Finally removed the cover. Not too much crud or sign of a tide mark. There was more room for manoeuvre in the engine bay than some others, so tackled it from the top.

All clean and back in place now. Didn't put any tgreadlocker on, but I don't think they'll work loose. 

Thanks to everyone who have shared photos and advice; really helpful. 

 

20180203_124656.jpg

20180203_124706.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey guys, 

 

I am experiencing the same problem on my BMW F10 520d. Water has been accumulating in the rear foot well. 

Also, my iDrive system does not work anymore. Keeps crashing, and rebooting continuously.

Note that this happened roughly in the same time.

 

This isn't acceptable from such a brand. Always loved BMW, but this has to be sorted out as many of BMW owners have experienced this exact same problem.

Any costs should be covered by them. It is clear that is a manufacturer's default.

 

This is why I would like to take this further and complaint against BMW UK for this matter.

I'd like any advice regarding how I should proceed in order to get some satisfactory answer from them.

And if you've already tried that way, did you get anything back ?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, SShahzad said:

Hey guys, 

 

I am experiencing the same problem on my BMW F10 520d. Water has been accumulating in the rear foot well. 

Also, my iDrive system does not work anymore. Keeps crashing, and rebooting continuously.

Note that this happened roughly in the same time.

 

This isn't acceptable from such a brand. Always loved BMW, but this has to be sorted out as many of BMW owners have experienced this exact same problem.

Any costs should be covered by them. It is clear that is a manufacturer's default.

 

This is why I would like to take this further and complaint against BMW UK for this matter.

I'd like any advice regarding how I should proceed in order to get some satisfactory answer from them.

And if you've already tried that way, did you get anything back ?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

 

 

 

Your iDrive crashing is more than likely unrelated to the water ingress. It may be resolved with a firmware update at a BMW dealership but it could be worse and in need of a replacement. The iDrive is just like a regular home computer with a hard drive (pro Nav), memory, a cpu and an operating system. If the car is out of warranty, not much come back on BMW other than maybe a goodwill contribution to the repair if you're lucky enough. 

 

As as for the water coming into the car due to a crud build up behind the engine bay cover, I am not aware of anyone taking this to BMW other than for repair under warranty. Life is too short and this water ingress is such an easy thing to fix with no known long term negative impact on the car. I for one wouldn't want the hassle of going the legal route to maybe get some BMW attention. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 03/02/2018 at 7:18 PM, SShahzad said:

Hey guys, 

 

I am experiencing the same problem on my BMW F10 520d. Water has been accumulating in the rear foot well. 

Also, my iDrive system does not work anymore. Keeps crashing, and rebooting continuously.

Note that this happened roughly in the same time.

 

This isn't acceptable from such a brand. Always loved BMW, but this has to be sorted out as many of BMW owners have experienced this exact same problem.

Any costs should be covered by them. It is clear that is a manufacturer's default.

 

This is why I would like to take this further and complaint against BMW UK for this matter.

I'd like any advice regarding how I should proceed in order to get some satisfactory answer from them.

And if you've already tried that way, did you get anything back ?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

 

 

I tried BMW UK and to cut a long story short they were of no use at all. In the end my dealer covered the cost of investigation and ran the rest through my bmw extended warranty, even though initially they refused to touch it.

This issue is clearly a design flaw on the F10/11 but they will never admit it.

My advice is to press the supplying dealer and BMW UK and see how far you get

Like Matthew I would be surprised if the Idrive issue is related but it is a hell of a coincidence 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

On 12/23/2015 at 11:40 PM, John G said:

Hi I am a 520d owner, that is new to this forum, and this is my first posting but I believe, I have had a similar water leak problem with my 3 year old 5 series.  The dealership that repaired the leak, said that a membrane in the rear passenger off side door needed replacing, and the front passenger seat had to be removed to remove the carpet for drying.  The email below addressed to BMW UK should explain the matter.

 

From: G John
Sent: 23 December 2015 23:05
To: 'customer.service@bmw.co.uk'; 'contact.us@bmw.co.uk';
Subject: RE: Your BMW - case reference number: ***************

 

Good evening Gemma and Danny,

 

Registration:*********

 

Chasis Number:********

 

 

I am naturally disappointed with both of your responses, and I wish to make it very clear that:

(1)   I am complaining

(2)   I would like a refund to the BMW repair bill for the sum of £448.45 that I included in the previous email as an attachment

(3)   I would like confirmation of whether or not BMW would thoroughly investigate the problem, to confirm that this was not due to a manufacturing or design defect, as I have found similar problems reported by BMW owners (documented below in this email)

(4)   I want confirmation of your 'Final Response' on this matter so that I can take this to the Financial Ombudsman Service if I remain dissatisfied with your final response

 

This matter concerns the car that I purchased from a BMW dealership and subsequent problems that I have experienced concerning a fault and the BMW warranty.

 

In June 2012 I took ownership of a new BMW 520 Efficient Dynamics.  I have always been impressed by the reputation of the BMW brand and particularly the engineering, which I had believed to be second to none.

 

Unfortunately in recent months I became aware of damage being caused to the rear foot-well carpet as water appeared to be finding its way in to that area. I took the car to the dealership from which I had purchased the vehicle to be told, on inspection, that the membrane within the rear door frame had failed. It is quite possible, indeed almost certain, that this problem had occurred months ago and possibly within the warranty period, and had remained un-noticed by me as the rear seats of the car are used only to accommodate a baby who uses a baby seat, therefore no one’s feet rested on the floor mats of the impacted area.

 

The car is three years old, and as a comparison my one and only child is 1.5 years, so that faulty rear door was really only used for the last 1.5 years, so in my opinion this is less than the normal wear and tear you would expect on a car door.  In addition the car has exceptionally low mileage – under 15 000 miles, as I use public transport to commute to work.   From the BMW forums, I can see this is a type of water leak problem has impacted other owners, one of whom was lucky to report it when the car was under warranty:

 

http://forum.bmw5.co.uk/topic/112666-f10-rear-door-water-leak/

http://forum.bmw5.co.uk/topic/116098-heavy-rain-water-leak/

 

I requested that the dealership, in view of the above facts, consider meeting the costs of the repair. They chose to hide behind the terms of the warranty and, while this is an understandable response, I believe it fails to recognize BMW’s responsibilities, failings in the car’s engineering and belies their esteemed reputation. I was left with no choice other than to have the repair carried out and to pay the cost of it.

 

I am extremely dissatisfied with having been charged and am asking, therefore, that you consider reimbursing the cost of putting this right £448.45.  While I accept that my reporting of the fault falls outside the time frame of the warranty, I am sure you will agree that it is a fault that would not be expected or acceptable in a car of this age; well-maintained having been serviced throughout by BMW and with such low mileage.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in anticipation of a positive response to this request.

Your sincerely

John G

Hi John G 

 

How did you get on with your complaint to BMW? Did you have to sign a Non Disclosure Agreement to get your complaint resolved?

 

Thank you to everyone who has posted details of the issue associated with the water ingress from the left hand steering column 'grommet'.

This was very useful in tracing the source of the problem on my BMW 2012 5 series and I still have the old 'grommet to prove it! 

 

Like John G I have complained to BMW by writing to Graeme Grieve ((MD) at Summit One, Summit Avenue Farnborough, Hamps, GU14 0FB with the garage invoice and received back a letter refusing compensation even though this forum has clearly identified a design fault. However instead of paying the BMW garage £307.20 I paid £150 for my local and I stress independent garage to fix the problem. I did call today but BMW customer services insisted they could do nothing as I had not taken my car to their approved dealer in Banstead - 'that's the process' I was told. I explained that this issue had been reported on this forum since at least 2015 (if not before) and reported on BMW Car Magazine in September 2017 and there has been no recall by BMW to modify/correct this issue.  So why the need for BMW to charge for a full diagnosis? I also informed BMW Customer services that I had limited their expense by having the problem solved at a lower cost than it would have cost if the BMW garage had done it themselves. However they would not budge. So I asked if they would discuss/meet an independent arbitrator. No Comment was the answer. So now I will of course write to BMW stating the above to see what they will do. I will try and keep you all informed, unless I am subject to a gagging order! Regards...Tony

P.S. There is no stopping anyone from complaining to Graeme if they believe they also have a problem like this but please submit evidence.

Edited by Ableanalyst

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to keep you all updated. This time instead of sending a letter to BMW UK I sent an email to BMW Ag explaining the issue and the intransigence of BMW UK. This mail went to gw-scan@bmw.de and I tried to send it to Klaus Frohlich (BMW Ag board member) but it bounced, so I sent it one of his colleagues alexander.bilgeri@bmw.de to forward it to him. I also sent a mail to BBC's Watchdog, hoping that they will take up the case. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/6/2018 at 1:43 AM, SuperDave said:

I think this needs adding to Honest Johns car by car breakdown. 

I sent the following to HJ:-

You    2 days ago

David V Goliath or Tony V BMW 
My car had a pool of water in the rear passenger side footwell and I contacted BMW Customer Services. They insisted that I take the car to a BMW garage for diagnosis at my cost. I looked up the issue on the internet and found the above forum and concluded that the symptoms were caused by a design fault. This was also reported in the September 2017 issue of the BMW Car Magazine. I therefore contacted local BMW garages and independent garages in my area. The cheapest quote that I accepted was £150 compared to BMW Banstead who quoted over £300. I therefore wrote to Mr Graeme Grieve at BMW with the invoice of £150 on the 26th January 2018 and received a reply dated 1st February, stating that they could not accept reports from a third party garage and they were unable to contribute towards the cost of the repairs. I called and spoke to the writer of the letter (Ms. Laura Balls). Explaining that I could not see why the initial investigation costs were warranted given the fact it was a well known issue since 2015 at least, had been reported in the press and the cars had not been recalled.I asked whether they would meet an independent arbitrator and and was given the answer 'no comment'. 
Please reply. 
P.S. Internet Forum - RE:-forum.bmw5.co.uk/topic/116098-heavy-rain-water-lea...6 

 

This was the answer from Honest John:-

Honest John    yesterday

That is the messiest unmoderated forum I have ever seen. Concerns two reasons for water ingress. One is blocked bulkhead vent well drains. The other is your problem, which is a perforated waterproof membrane inside the rear door. Whether that should be fixed by a BMW dealer or not depends on whether the car is still under warranty. Not serious enough to bring up the Sale of Goods 6 year rule. You cannot expect BMW to take any liability for an alleged fault fixed by a third party.

 

I replied:

You    15 hours ago

Shame...I have the yellow grommet..its got the same tide mark as that shown in the blog by others!

 

 
I did contact the Motor Ombudsman on 5th Feb. after seeing their details on the SMMT website. They did not want to know..felt that BMW and all manufacturers are covered by a Block Exception Rule. They suggested contacting the Driver Vehicle Standards Agency 01179543300. They said the problem does not come under their recall process, was not a safety issue and was a quality issue and it was up to the manufacturers recall service campaign. I did not get a reply from the ACEA.
HJ's  website contains information regarding the law and after reading, it looks like the recourse is with whoever sold the vehicle. I bought the car with an RAC warranty for 36 months - however this excludes the ingress of water. 

yellow grommet.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"That is the messiest unmoderated forum I have ever seen"

 

What?

 

I have been involved in forums for years. This, without doubt, is the best one I have used, fact.

 

This particular thread is really good, full of individual contributions discussing their experiences with this fault. How on earth can anybody reading it for the first time conclude that?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, nashdm2 said:

"That is the messiest unmoderated forum I have ever seen"

 

What?

 

I have been involved in forums for years. This, without doubt, is the best one I have used, fact.

 

This particular thread is really good, full of individual contributions discussing their experiences with this fault. How on earth can anybody reading it for the first time conclude that?

 

 

I agree with you. Posts are relevant and very helpful.

I disagree with Honest John. Not sure that he really read this blog. He assumed that my problem was with the door card! Shame he seems to be siding with BMW. Maybe.......its because of his advertising revenue?

I recommend lobbying BMW for a Service Recall by members of this forum by writing (with the tag 'Leak...me too!', sorry Weinstein) to the UK office or mailing the German office regarding this fault. What do you think?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is very interesting.

 

The majority of people that have come onto this thread have the same issue. The yellow grommet (YG) lets water through into the car when the drain hole is blocked with debris. So, are we able to assume that ALL F10/F11 owners will suffer this if the drain hole is blocked, OR, are there some circumstances where the YG will hold water? If so, are there other factors to consider here, like, poorly a fitted YG for example may lead to this problem. I personally did not touch the YG when I removed the cover on mine. Does it fit well or not? The thing here is, the water is not under pressure, so, the YG's that do leak are clearly just there to block the steering column hole for aesthetics and not designed as a water barrier.

 

As has been said before, the people that are on this forum must represent an extremely small amount of all cars purchased. If every car that had a drain blocked has this issue, then the size of issues must be huge. Also if that is the case, I would have expected more people to come on this thread. Or, do they all just pay a garage of some sort.

 

Just mumbling really, food for thought.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good point on the quality of fitment of the yellow grommet. Has anyone removed one to see how it is fixed? 

 

I notice the steering colum has a flexible snorkel that may fix better, it has a sealing gasket and tabs.

 

https://www.laglobalparts.com/Catalog/Details/11634

 

Wonder if it could be butchered to provide a better seal than the yellow grommet.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, nashdm2 said:

It is very interesting.

 

The majority of people that have come onto this thread have the same issue. The yellow grommet (YG) lets water through into the car when the drain hole is blocked with debris. So, are we able to assume that ALL F10/F11 owners will suffer this if the drain hole is blocked, OR, are there some circumstances where the YG will hold water? If so, are there other factors to consider here, like, poorly a fitted YG for example may lead to this problem. I personally did not touch the YG when I removed the cover on mine. Does it fit well or not? The thing here is, the water is not under pressure, so, the YG's that do leak are clearly just there to block the steering column hole for aesthetics and not designed as a water barrier.

 

As has been said before, the people that are on this forum must represent an extremely small amount of all cars purchased. If every car that had a drain blocked has this issue, then the size of issues must be huge. Also if that is the case, I would have expected more people to come on this thread. Or, do they all just pay a garage of some sort.

 

Just mumbling really, food for thought.

 

 

 

My problem only occurred after I was forced to leave my car on the drive rather than in my garage. Maybe a lot of people don't have this problem if the grommet is sealed well and they garage their car. 

The mechanic did say that they did have quite a job removing the grommet, but also said that he put a lot of sealer in and around the new grommet. He also  put flexible sealant (as described in previous blogs) in the rear passenger door card.

The funny thing is, and maybe I should have said this before, I contacted AMC 68-678 Garratt Lane London SW17 0NP.  initially and before I had finished describing the problem, they knew about it as well as the solution; they quoted me £270, but transport to and from would have been difficult for me.

So, there are garages that know about the problem . However, BMW seem to not know. Why's that?

 

I have purchase some ISOPON Aluminium mesh for £2 and propose to use this as a removable lid to stop leaves etc getting through from the wiper blade area.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, surprised by that response. You see plenty of "What's bad" for a single reported issue on many models whereas here we have dozens of examples!

Perhaps Honest John doesnt like the competition. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×